Viewing 40 posts - 401 through 440 (of 3,508 total)
  • TrainerRoad – STW approved sessions
  • jonno101
    Free Member

    Hi all
    Im dead happy to stumble across this thread as being a relatively new dad (2 year old), laugh at fellow TR users with one ear on sopranos, one ear on baby monitor whilst trying to keep a steady 250 watts!! Which for me is quite tough?? Have been known to do this in the garden on hot summer days just because I can’t escape the house.. (which I know is very wrong)..

    Anyways an interesting observation today which I just wandered if anyone else has picked up on. I was doing 20 Min FTP test as want to see if I have improved. Went out too hard and couldn’t sustain !! (too used to 8 min tests) So my wattage dropped had a break within 20 mins and then went hard again but this time dropped the friction setting on My Tacx Satori from 5 to 3 (so less resistance), This adjustment meant I could go on the big ring and spin the wheel a lot quicker to get to my desired wattage, and then found it easier to sustain a certain high wattage that I couldn’t when turbo was set to more resistance and in small ring?

    So my question is from my observation. If the wheel is spinning faster due to less trainer resistance is it easier to maintain high wattage than if wheel was spinning slower? Mainly thinking of flywheel & inertia within trainer itself? Well next time I have another FTP test I will put this to the test?

    Has anyone tried same FTP test but with friction set differently on turbo and noticed they find it easier to keep high wattage if they get wheel to spin faster? If so then is it a slight cheat to produce higher FTP?

    Oh and Im not talking about virtual power? I do Have a Powertap G3 on my Tacx Satori so getting an actual power reading.

    Cheers all and will keep up on this thread as its a great resource for a sado like me that would like to be out on the open roads more?
    Cheers
    jon

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    So my question is from my observation. If the wheel is spinning faster due to less trainer resistance is it easier to maintain high wattage than if wheel was spinning slower? Mainly thinking of flywheel & inertia within trainer itself? Well next time I have another FTP test I will put this to the test?

    I think yes, this is true. I’m sure I read somewhere that it was something to do with the higher inertia of the wheel (and flywheel) helping through the dead spots in the pedal stroke, and that this helps reduce fatigue. I’m sure someone will be along soon with a better explanation of this though!

    one ear on baby monitor

    Oh and this is also me 🙂 Usually watching two baby monitors desperately hoping they stay asleep until I finish the session!

    If so then is it a slight cheat to produce higher FTP?

    … and for this, it is just a convenient way of producing an estimate. Don’t actually use the tests that often these days as I pretty much know from sessions I do regularly and races whether my FTP needs to be tweaked up or down.

    jonno101
    Free Member

    I think yes, this is true. I’m sure I read somewhere that it was something to do with the higher inertia of the wheel (and flywheel) helping through the dead spots in the pedal stroke, and that this helps reduce fatigue. I’m sure someone will be along soon with a better explanation of this though!

    Was actually out on the roads today and thinking about it. Was suspecting someone was gonna just say power is power whatever?? But what you say makes total sense. I guess difference would be like doing FTP test on a climb versus flat road?

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Yes, power is power, I think it’s more down to the reduction in fatigue of having to push through the dead spots in the pedal stroke. Again I’m sure someone will be along to give a more accurate explanation soon!

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Subscription resurrection, thread resurrection.

    Back on the TrainerRoad thing again, oh the joy!

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Count yourself lucky Chef, some of us have never been away 🙂

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Yeah respect to those killing themselves over summer on it.

    Nice facility that you can stop and start your subscription and retain your settings/history.

    Haze
    Full Member

    Must remember to cancel over summer, haven’t used it since probably April.

    Ah well, considering it a donation for their hard work…

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Chef, Haze, good summers? TrainerRoad winter work paid off? What you got planned for this winter?

    Managed my first bit of racing of the year last week, just a local 10 as the season comes to a close! Was trying out a new setup and was way too conservative with the pacing, but went ok.

    Gone a bit mad with the custom workout creator here. Pretty much only doing custom ones now. Even the old favourites like Starr King have been tweaked so that the warm ups work better for me.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    It paid off very well indeed thank you.

    I had a good spring on the MTB, and a very good summer on the road. I raced both disciplines and placed much higher up than last year.

    Currently in a trail running phase but the CX season is NOW, (CrossVegas tomorrow, live stream at 05:30 GMT for the men’s elite), so its back to short hard efforts on the rollers again.

    TrainerRoad based sessions helped me improve my FTP quite a lot, not that the equivalent training on the road wouldn’t have, but the ease and convenience of it is remarkable.

    Haze
    Full Member

    Dipped my toe in circuits and identified some areas to work on over winter, racing progress was halted by a broken bike but will take the experience to work over winter.

    Overall though I feeling stronger than 12 months ago, first FTP test should be interesting!

    Planning to pick back up with some winter series circuits and see how it goes, there a local road race series running from May ’till July so all being well…

    dirtygirlonabike
    Free Member

    I was thinking about this thread the other day, and the FTP tet of 8mins vs 20mins. I’ve only ever done my FTP outside and full 20min efforts. I recently did longer intervals (7mins) which gave me an idea of what the 8min test would be like. I don’t see how the 8min test can be accurate – i knew i only needed to suffer for 7mins and my 5min power is good so the results (for me) would be out if i did the 8min test. I could have carried on for another minute (just) but not the full 20mins at that effort.

    Not looking forward to the turbo this winter.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    I don’t see how the 8min test can be accurate – i knew i only needed to suffer for 7mins and my 5min power is good so the results (for me) would be out if i did the 8min test. I could have carried on for another minute (just) but not the full 20mins at that effort.

    … but then you only take 90% of the average for the 8 min test as an estimate of your FTP, or 95% of your 20 min power as an estimate of your FTP. And it is just an estimate of the power you could sustain for an hour.

    Seeing as you race and train a lot you probably have a very good idea of the power you could sustain for an hour anyway, so you probably know if you need to tweak your FTP up or down.

    Not looking forward to the turbo this winter.

    It’s been hard turboing in the heat, looking forward to some nice chilly evenings 🙂

    dirtygirlonabike
    Free Member

    Ah I didn’t realise it was a lower %. 🙂

    Lots of respect for turboing in the heat. I managed one turbo sess this season when it was pouring & windy but hot outside. Felt ill after it!

    Rusty-Shackleford
    Free Member

    I completed the Intermediate Base II plan at the start of the year and supplemented with a few ad-hoc sessions as and when I felt like it; FTP went from 234w > 300w (Elite Arion Mag – resistance 1).

    I started again at the beginning of this month (first sessions since April) and I’m pleased, not to mention a little surprised, that in terms of FTP I managed to pick up where I left off. Even felt good enough to bump my FTP by another 5w then completed Angels, which I’d wussed out on 2/3 of the way through in April 😛

    I’m doing 2-3 days a week on the rollers, alternating my days with a C25K plan (my God, running is hard work) and the plan is to have a longer Z2 ride outdoors at the weekend. Sessions are on an empty stomach before work, so I’ve been looking for fairly intense workouts around 45 mins in duration. This is the selection so far:-

    Apple orchard +3
    Lolita
    Ride Fit Master Blaster
    Old Rag
    Vandever
    Sleeping Beauty

    I Keep looking at Sufferfest Revolver because it fits my time & intensity criteria and I seem to manage sprint/rest intervals better than I do a long grind…but I have to admit, it looks like a beast! Anyone done Revolver; how did you find it?

    Speaking of a long grind, I really ought to do a 20 min test some time soon…

    Anyhow, I’m pleased to be starting my TR sessions so early in the ‘winter’…after seeing the improvement in FTP (not to mention an associated 5kg post-Xmas weight loss) I was kicking myself that I didn’t start earlier last year.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    I Keep looking at Sufferfest Revolver because it fits my time & intensity criteria and I seem to manage sprint/rest intervals better than I do a long grind…but I have to admit, it looks like a beast! Anyone done Revolver; how did you find it?

    Revolver’s great for a short, hard workout, takes about 45min from start to finish. No real secret to it – warm up, then minute on/minute off. 16 times. Cool down.

    Fun 😈

    Haze
    Full Member

    Hoping to squeeze in my first session soon, have a couple of work projects taking up my spare time so need to shift those first.

    Taken delivery of a nice new 52T for the winter bike, will be interesting to see how/if that affects my FTP (current test were on a 50).

    May have a steady spin on Scylla or Carson or something first before launching right into a 20 minute test.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Nice work!

    Revolver, along with Downward Spiral, are the two sessions that are mentally easiest I think. Both are short intervals, (or decreasing in time), and as such I seem to be able to cope with them.

    Angles on the other hand, when done at FTP is an absolute killer session.

    I returned to the rollers yesterday for the first time since March, ooh boy was that not pretty. Managed 50 minutes of Hell Hath No Fury then climbed off, more from mental exhaustion than physical. FTP setting was reduced as well.

    There are easier ways to train, but none so effective.

    stabilizers
    Full Member

    I pretty much swear by Sufferfest and TrainerRoad. Great for fitting in a session whether your time constrained or the weather is just too bad.
    Agree that Revolver and downward spiral are pretty straight forward and you get a bit of a breather between efforts. If you’ve done your ftp then you should find it really tough but still get through it. That’s the great thing about it that it takes you to the limit. I guess it depends how fresh you are too as I did Angels last week and really cracked on the last effort and just crawled to the end. I had done ISLAGIATT the day before to FTP so I was a bit done in.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    Angels is my favourite, though – love that last climb up Alpe D’Huez, attack after attack after attack 🙂

    akak
    Free Member

    On week 5 of sweet spot 1, this is the first time I have done any proper training, going well I think.

    I also need a bigger top gear, 52 ring, 25mm tyre, bodge a mtb 11t onto the cassette? Not really sure yet.

    monkeyfudger
    Free Member

    Hmmm going to have to start up again eventually, first road season this year started off well enough, I stopped using the turbo when it started getting hot and my power output probably suffered for it. My better results were def on easier circuits but my last two races I’ve been spat out the back. Time for a rest then start working again in mid October maybe. Think I started to early with the higher output stuff but dunno…

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    20 minute FTP test tonight to create a baseline for the forthcoming winter madness.

    Using virtual power now as my PowerTap has blown it guts, so as long as TR is consistent then it should be fine as I rarely used power data on outside rides.

    Slightly depressing number compared to my June peak, (done on a Monark scientific test bike), but it’ll give me something to improve upon.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    Just completed Tioga. I’ve earned & G&T tonight, just the one though.

    I wish I done the intermediate base workouts last year, not withstanding the workouts, the instructions regard cadence, position and breathing are helping me massively – I seem to have found a position on the bars in which I can just ride en passe at just below FTP/30kmph for ages.

    akak
    Free Member

    I suffered in Tioga, I generally like the drills but they can make life more difficult on a bad day.

    The workouts suggest that the aero position makes it more difficult to work in the sweet spot range, but I actually find it easier on the drops. Presumably there is something to learn about the bike setup from that but I don’t really understand it, there is already a significant seat-to-bar drop.

    IvanDobski
    Free Member

    It’s officially winter, I’ve reactivated Trainerroad…

    Has anyone tried the “Elements of Style” Sufferfest video?

    muppetWrangler
    Free Member

    I’m back tonight too.

    11 months of near complete inactivity has seen me making a very slow and careful reintroduction to the turbo tonight with a twenty minute sweet spot workout. Gonna stick with that for a few sessions before building up again. After a couple of timed rides on a local loop I reckon i’m anywhere between 20-30% down on my fitness from last year.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    Has anyone tried the “Elements of Style” Sufferfest video?

    Yeah it’s quite good for what it is, which is essentially making a G1 session on the rollers/turbo feel slightly more interesting than it is.

    Nice footage and well shot, the Carlton Kirby commentary is a Marmite thing to be honest.

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    The workouts suggest that the aero position makes it more difficult to work in the sweet spot range, but I actually find it easier on the drops

    Thats an interesting point. I can get through an hour easily on the drops, and my wattage visibly goes up a few watts in that position (as seen by the green bar increasing)so I guess I’m recruiting a different alternate muscle group into the mix, but I’ve found that my most sustainable mental / physical position is drumming it out low in an aero position but with my hands holding the hoods above the levers and arms draped across/parallel to the top of the bars like this:

    Anyone know why? Just physiology maybe?

    Haze
    Full Member

    Had a warm up on Angels last week, not going all out just getting back into the swing of things.

    Jumped into a 20 minute test tonight and got a 10% increase on my FTP at near enough an identical LTHR.

    Putting some of that down to replacing the 50T with a 52T, gonna be a tough winter…

    akak
    Free Member

    Finished the 6 week block today, as a treat I rode in the morning which kind of made it easy! Hoping for a 5% FTP gain when I test on Tuesday, no idea if I can do it but will try.

    I have decided that my own aero position quirk is due to the hoods just being too far away and I am using tension to hold my body. I plan to use the bar tops when I don’t need to shift as although it looks less comfy it is closer to a mtb position.

    akak
    Free Member

    Well the answer is “no, I can’t”. The first 8 minutes was more or less on track, in the 2nd effort I just couldn’t move the gear or spin the next gear down. Ended up with a gain of 2.4%. I hindsight I feel that I should have stuck to my gear and turned off the video to give 100% focus.

    I’ve seen that sweet spot 2 has rather a lot more workouts at or over 100% ftp so maybe its for the best!

    rjj
    Free Member

    Not taking things to seriously but am using Global Cycling Network Intense 20 minute workout – does this look reasonable to maintain fitness over winter and build up some strength

    Video

    Haze
    Full Member

    Scylla tonight, unders and overs and
    first session at my new FTP.

    Going to be a tough winter!

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Galena here. 3×20 sweetspot passed pretty quickly with two episodes of Breaking Bad.

    Haze
    Full Member

    Might check that one out, I like the sweet spot stuff when I’m not up for making myself sick.

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    It is quite a nice session. Usually doesn’t feel that hard but is a fair chunk of TSS (about 110 I think).

    What sessions are you all going to be treating yourselves to this winter? Just having a think about it here. May go the coaching route as I’m likely to be even more time crunched 😐

    Kryton57
    Full Member

    aka – are you sure you’re not a bit tired, obviously its very subjective but that plan shouldn’t be so hard?

    I’m on the last workout on that myself tomorrow before Oktoberest in Bristol Saturday. Then Intermediate Base 2 starts Tuesday with an 8 min test of course. I’m feeling really good though, and am feeling like I may just smash that test. *fingers crossed*.

    FWIW I’ve really enjoyed the type of workouts and instructions from IB 1 – its genuinly helped my climbing, and I’ve found I really enjoy extended interval session at or just below FTP on the turbo or on the bike during club runs.

    The-Swedish-Chef
    Free Member

    2 sets of 3 * 4 minutes off 2, with 10 minutes bewteen sets.

    New lowered FTP after my 20 minute test and it felt too easy to be honest, so I’ll bash out a Sufferfest this weekend to really see whether its correct or not.

    Watched the cyclocross from the weekend
    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzWcUAaTzGI[/video]

    mrblobby
    Free Member

    Then Intermediate Base 2 starts Tuesday

    Some nice sessions in IB2. Though to finish with Powell is evil 🙂

    Chef, thanks for the video, shall check that out.

Viewing 40 posts - 401 through 440 (of 3,508 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.