Why is it we can travel to London this weekend for 8 quid each from Lichfield yet from Derby it’s nearer 30.
I appreciate they’re different lines and different operators but it’s a vast difference for pretty much the same journey.

Like many things in the travel industry, the price is based on supply and demand, not cost to operator – and the supply is controlled by other factors.

I used to travel Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow 1st class for £1.75. Standard class was around £12, and 1st class from Haymarket (a shorter journey as it’s one stop closer to Glasgow) was £15

I quite often do edinburgh to london. The exact same bastard train, coming from Glasgow via edinburgh to london, is often cheaper than getting on it one stop later. In fact it’s often cheaper to get a train from edinburgh to glasgow then get on the london train which goes first back to edinburgh.

On lots of lines its cheaper to buy split tickets

Depends on a rather large number of factors I’m afraid but I suspect the following:
The Derby route is more popular, the operator therefore may have sold their quota of cheaper tickets from Derby to London. Tickets go on sale 12 weeks in advance, obviously the cheaper ones go first – if the Lichfield operator has sold fewer of the quota of cheaper tickets from Lichfield then there will be some left. Or maybe there are more cheaper seats because the train is bigger.

The idea that the cost of a seat on a train being a fixed price is a big misnomer – it could be worth £300+ on a Monday morning peak if the ticket was bought on the morning of travel, however if it was bought 12 weeks in advance and happened to be on a train on a Tuesday night it might be £1.

….and in response to Northwind…. This is highly likely to be something similar: The quota of cheaper advanced tickets may sell out for popular origins and therefore cheaper tickets be available from less popular origins, these can often be from stations a single stop away even utilising the same train. HOWEVER, most advance tickets do not allow you to travel to/from any other station, they are usually strictly valid only to/from the specific stations on the ticket. Whether or not you get away with using the ticket in another way is down to the train manager / ticket inspector.

Well it’s nice to know that train fares don’t reflect the cost to the operator but how much they can squeeze out of their desperate customers.

That’s obviously the farest way to do it.

Why would this target the most desperate?

Plan 12 weeks in advance, travel at unpopular times and it’s cheap. Turn up on the day during a popular time and pay the going rate.

I find this to be least discriminatory. How else does an operator try to encourage the best use of resources? Better to sell cheaper seats (even at a loss) on unpopular services than carry fresh air around on a Tuesday night. You cannot possibly think that a flat rate for the journey no matter when you travel or when you decide to travel is right surely?

Why would this target the most desperate?

Because presumably higher fares won’t attract customers who aren’t that bothered.

Exactly. Who wants to attract more customers when the trains are already full?

Just because the trains are full doesn’t mean that it is acceptable to ripoff customers.

You might think everything is fine with rail fares in the UK BlobOnAStick but it’s not a very widely held view.

We have the highest train fares in the world. Why?

“Getting around the UK by train is becoming unaffordable, and it doesn’t make any sense”

“A London to Brighton return ticket will now set you back £45.80, but would have cost just 15 shillings in 1953 – about £18.75 in today’s money”

Presumably the French, Belgians, Poles, and Italians, don’t have full trains.

Different argument Ernie. I didn’t say that the ‘walk up fare’ is fair but whilst we are facing the massive diurnal cycle of the hugely packed peaks and deserted off-peaks, how else is an operator to behave (given the restrictions on train length, capacity of the tracks, number of rolling stock sets, the sheer amount of investment required and the hopelessness of the current infrastructure provider in delivering any kind of improvement)?

(BTW, the 2245 departure from Paddington to Bristol on 8th December is £15 if you book today – I think you’ll find that in your table above its beaten only by Poland)

how else is an operator to behave

Well in case you’ve missed it – not by ripping off desperate customers.

Or making it beyond the reach of those who can’t afford it.

Yah. You’re not listening.

I love the train, probably because I rarely use it and when I do its usually for a jaunt somewhere as opposed to a rush hour commute. All the fairs on that Virgin line are such good value! I stayed up till ridiculous o’clock for a few nights last year to book the cheapest available tickets as they came on line x amount of weeks prior to travelling. They still came out at 16 quid each which is double the cost to travel in two days time from Lichfield.

Who’s train from Lichfield Wrighty? London Midland or Virgin (or other)?

Edit: Actually, never mind, it’ll be something to do with EMT and their pricing structure. But on a side note, there are railcards that will give a discount (can’t remember which ones now, but if you travel regularly then it might be worth investigating)

Yah. You’re not listening.

Yes I heard – you think that cheap fares when traveling at quarter to eleven at night and bought 3 months in advanced justifies what is probably the highest train fares in the world, certainly the highest train fares in Europe.

Well to fair you don’t claim that ‘walk up fare’ is fair, you just claim that it’s fair for them to charge it, because you can’t think of what else they can do.

Muddled thinking and classic contradictory politician-type doublespeak imo.

Traveling to Edinburgh from Darlington on the sixth of January for a concert. £260 return for two adult’s was the cheapest prices I could find. Needless to say we’re driving

January is more than 12 weeks away. Try again with 12 weeks to go.

Edit: a fare that has been released 12 weeks out should mean that you could do it for about £22 per person.

Edit 2: have another look at National Rail/train line etc during the week commencing 12 Oct (if I’ve got my calcs correct) and you should see a much cheaper fare available. The problem with those sites is that if you pop a date in that’s more than 12 weeks out, the only fare available is the walk-up fare (I.e. The most expensive one) so that’s what gets displayed.

Yes I heard – you think that cheap fares when traveling at quarter to eleven at night and bought 3 months in advanced justifies what is probably the highest train fares in the world, certainly the highest train fares in Europe.

See, I knew you weren’t listening. I am pointing out that, if you are strapped for cash but need to go to Bristol then you can do the journey by train for 13p per mile with some planning.

I do not understand where desperate people come into this – I assume they are desperate financially speaking? Travel some other time and pay less!

A further point I’m making is that there are lies, damn lies and statistics available for ‘rail fare’ comparisons. The favourite is quoting a ‘walk-up fare’ and comparing it with an air fare booked months in advance. Apples and deraileurs.

So can somebody please explain why a 12 month season ticket from Malvern to Worcester (7 miles / 10 minute) costs £999, but a season ticket from Malvern to Birmingham (30 miles) costs £1400?

Train fares in this country are a national disgrace. It’s one area of policy where I agree with Corbyn. Public transport should be a national asset and fares should be set to similar levels to those in the rest of Europe. Train travel in Holland is a joy and very affordable. As the country that invented rail travel we really should be ashamed of the shower of greedy and incompetent **** that we have in charge of the rail industry.

People must have Amazingly stable and organised life to be able to plan 3months in advanced! I think for most people a week is about as much in advance that things can be taken sure enough to bookna ticket and ime once your down to this time there is little or no fair difference. 3 months is only any good for that once a year trip to see aunt morg in Monmouth from Liverpool.

[/quote]anuary is more than 12 weeks away. Try again with 12 weeks to go.

Edit: a fare that has been released 12 weeks out should mean that you could do it for about £22 per person.

Edit 2: have another look at National Rail/train line etc during the week commencing 12 Oct (if I’ve got my calcs correct) and you should see a much cheaper fare available. The problem with those sites is that if you pop a date in that’s more than 12 weeks out, the only fare available is the walk-up fare (I.e. The most expensive one) so that’s what gets displayed

Fair point and I will go back and try again in Oct but to charge £130 return travel off peak on the day is a tad much for what is effectively just two stops.

I’d pay more if they could re-design the pendolino so it it doesn’t smell of shit.

People must have Amazingly stable and organised life to be able to plan 3months in advanced!

Indeed. Thats not how my world works either. We discussed rail fares on this thread yesterday.

Which led to me, just out of interest, having a look what it would cost me to walk into Manchester Piccadilly and get a return ticket to London tomorrow. The cheapest off-peak fare I could find would cost me £160 return. To travel at peak, it would be £334. So say that 2 of you needed to be in London for a 9.30 meeting tomorrow, you could expect to pay Richard just shy of 700 quid for the privilege 😯

In what world is that a representative price for that journey? In the insane, utterly dysfunctional world where our government hands an operator a private monopoly, with a guarantee of no competition for 15 years at a time, then lavishes them with huge taxpayer subsidies, and tell them they can charge pretty much whatever they like.

Richard Branson was caught, off the record of course, referring to the West Coast Mainline as ‘a license to print money’. He’s bang on! Thats exactly what a rail franchise in this country now is. And we’re all being well and truly bent over by Branson and his mates, and our ability to travel efficiently and affordably around the country is of absolutely no concern to them. All that registers is the enormous profit they make

Iv said it before and will again, I travel on the trains a lot and whilst they are by no means perfect they are a hell of a lot better than they were under British Rail. Those calling for the railways to be brought back into public ownership forget quite how crap BR was. They also forget how expensive it as back then as well.

And re. fares, on Tuesday I payed £104 for a train to London as I walked up and paid for a peak service, next week the same journey will cost be £15 as I planned in advance. This is a good not a bad thing as I know I can get to London cheap if needed.

Binners – did you check how much a Virgin flight would be at the same times, not to encourage conspiracy theories.

Iv said it before and will again, I travel on the trains a lot and whilst they are by no means perfect they are a hell of a lot better than they were under British Rail. Those calling for the railways to be brought back into public ownership forget quite how crap BR was.

The government are spending A LOT more on the railways, in subsidies to Richard and chums, than they ever spent on the railways when they were nationalised. British Rail were crap. The railways now are still crap. They’re just costing us all an awful lot more for that crapness. Puntuality is woeful compared to the rest of Europe. And prices are absolutely ludicrous!

As far as policy goes: The government has scrapped all its plans to modernise any of the northern or midlands rail network. All the improvements promised prior to the election? Every single one of them scrapped! The ones desperately needed! The one with ancient rolling stock running on victorian lines. Instead we get HS2. A complete white elephant, and pointless vanity project, which when completed will be handed to Branson or some other chancer, to milk for all its worth!

Worth reading about the grinning, bearded carpetbagger

I know I’ll get accused of not comparing like with like due to finding etc. but my view as a regular user of the system is simple, under BR it was an absolute embarrassment, under private running whilst not perfect it’s pretty good most of the time.

It’d be even better if all that additional money went into the service, rather than shareholders pockets.

The East Coast mainline, in public hands after the failure of the previous private operator, had the best punctuality on the national network, and returned millions of pounds to the exchequer.

So what do the government do? Hand it to Richard, of course 🙄

four different permutations for tickets to Cardiff this week – all with very different pricing.

total rip off if b tickets from home station, so some finessing required!

How many people turn up at an airport and buy their ticket then?

How many people even turn up hotels and pay the rack rate?

And yet train fares are “a disgrace”. You can buy most advanced fares 48 if not 24 hours in advance. It’s not exactly a Herculean feat of organisation to know that you’ll need to travel 2 days out.

People want the flexibility and spontaneity of personal travel, but don’t want to pay for it.

I think fares arent that bad. Looking on the SNCF website an advance ticket on Monday from Paris to Tours on the 07.16 is €65, to come back on the 18.03 is €61.30, non-flexible tickets. Euston to Birmingham on Monday a flexible ticket is £84, coming back is £9. So significantly cheaper, with flexibility on the way there. If you’re happy to take a slower train there it’s £20.

I travel on the trains a lot and whilst they are by no means perfect they are a hell of a lot better than they were under British Rail. Those calling for the railways to be brought back into public ownership forget quite how crap BR was.

Well I for one haven’t forgotten how UK governments refused to invest in BR, while in contrast France for example was pumping money into their railways. Now it’s been privatized money is no object and UK governments are pumping 4 times more taxpayers money into the system than they were under BR.

A classic example of putting political ideology, and private profit, before the needs of the people.

They also forget how expensive it as back then as well.

According to the Daily Telegraph – highbrow cheerleader for the Conservative Party :

“A London to Brighton return ticket will now set you back £45.80, but would have cost just 15 shillings in 1953 – about £18.75 in today’s money”

We have the highest train fares in the world. Why?

That ^ article was written 2 years ago, fares have gone up further, above the rate of inflation, since then.

This is interesting.

I use Greater Anglia each day to get to work. My season Ticket is just shy of £4k My trains use the ‘mainline’. A bit further up there is the ‘metro line’ that runs along the same corridor as the mainline. Trains share / cross tracks between main / metro as needed.

Greater Anglia had the franchise for the metro bit as well. Earlier this year, Transport For London took over the metro line. This uses the same tracks, stations, rolling stock and staff as Greater Anglia used. Uniforms were changed and stickers put over the Greater Anglia signage, but the biggest change was that the fares were halved. Yes that’s right a 50% reduction right across the range of fares. Just goes to show what can be done when you remove a profit driven commercial enterprise.

lunge – Member
I know I’ll get accused of not comparing like with like due to finding etc. but my view as a regular user of the system is simple, under BR it was an absolute embarrassment, under private running whilst not perfect it’s pretty good most of the time.

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

And yet when EastCoast was back in public hands, the trains were much nicer to travel on than in the National Express era – although GNER was an excellent operator as a customer.

Earlier this year, Transport For London took over the metro line. This uses the same tracks, stations, rolling stock and staff as Greater Anglia used. Uniforms were changed and stickers put over the Greater Anglia signage, but the biggest change was that the fares were halved. Yes that’s right a 50% reduction right across the range of fares. Just goes to show what can be done when you remove a profit driven commercial enterprise.

Individual tickets are not costed against line/route cost tho are they, but over their entire network, set to a price that will (after all costs included) give them an allowable profit. Its entirely probable the mainline trains are mainly used during rushhour, cost more to run (over all their trians, inc mainline stuff) compared to the metro network.

Train tickets are ridiculously confusing. I remember sitting with two colleagues at work a while ago trying to arrange tickets to travel to a funeral (Edinburgh to London) The three of us all came up with completely different prices, different combinations of journeys and a whole load of confusion. Ended up just booking a BA flight instead.