- This topic has 28 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 8 years ago by timidwheeler.
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Trails for Wales campaign
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MrAgreeableFull Member
I’ve tacked this on the end of another thread, but it really deserves its own.
There’s just a month left of the Welsh government’s access consultation, which puts major, Scottish style access reforms out for discussion. CTC, British Cycling and OpenMTB have issued a joint response which you can read here:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/campaign/trails-wales
The summary of the summary:
Scottish-style access – yes please.
Failing that, we’re asking them to address some of the more glaring inconsistencies of access law – e.g. open access to CROW land for cyclists and equestrians as well as walkers; simplifying the creation of new cycle routes; a few tweaks that would make life easier for event organisers; and powers of enforcement against landowners who persistently block RoW.
This is a rare chance for major reform to an access system that pretty much disregards users on bikes, so do take a look. If you don’t want to fill out a full consultation response, there’s a stock letter on the CTC site that you can customise.
MrAgreeableFull MemberI’m sure there’ll be a front page news story about it soon… hint hint.
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...SaxonRiderFull MemberThanks for that, Mr Agreeable. I will try to fill out a response.
SaxonRiderFull MemberI have submitted my letter now. Please, Welsh people, follow the link above!
gelertFree MemberI really really hope this happens. Just submitted mine. Thanks for the links.
MrAgreeableFull MemberI wont be a criminal any more
It’s not a criminal offence to ride a bike on a footpath (unless it’s a pavement at the side of the road). Although a lot of people are under this impression.
Please, Welsh people, follow the link above!
The consultation is open to anyone who rides in Wales too.
MrAgreeableFull MemberBump and update. There’s a photo call and show of support planned for Wednesday 23 September in Cardiff Bay outside the Senedd, 12.30 pm – 2 pm. We’re trying to get as many mountain bikers as possible to show support for access reform, so please come along if you can.
Facebook event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/163698063966097/
MrAgreeableFull MemberThe Countryside Alliance have woken up and submitted the sort of measured, impartial response to the consultation you’d expect. Quote:
There are areas of the consultation which we feel may pose a fundamental threat to rural liberty and livelihoods. One example is if a footpath were to be made available for multiple uses such as cycling, horse riding and carriage driving this could create conflict between users, have an economic impact on the land owner and cause damage to the land.
“The report also suggests that Wales could extend access for responsible recreation to all land. We feel this proposal is unjustified, unwarranted and would be an unregulated free for all. It could have an environmental impact on rivers and habitats, provide opportunities for crime and could lead to other issues, such as sheep worrying by domestic dogs. It could also severely limit the landowner’s ability to manage and protect their land. It would be wholly unjustified and unfair to all private landowners across Wales.”
Their website has a form letter that you can edit yourself. Would it be irresponsible of me to suggest that people amend this to a message supporting wider access, and pointing out that this would benefit everyone, including farmers and horsey types? 😈
http://www.countryside-alliance.org/latest-campaign-in-wales-oppose-open-access/Nipper99Free MemberYes, it would be irresponsible. I have a real dislike of the CA who are the sort of mounted division of UKIP and probably worse but they’re entitled to their opinion. If you can’t convince by force of your own arguments alone why should you suggest submitting fraudulent responses from someone else.
How does wider access benefit farmers – have you ever been to Wales Mr Agreeable?
monkeysfeetFree MemberHow does wider access benefit farmers – have you ever been to Wales Mr Agreeable?
Why does visiting wales make a difference to Mr. Agreeables post?
Anyway wider access = more visitors. More Visitors= more tourists and Folk out in Wales’ countryside. Visitors=cash..locals sell more produce…More £££ into the Welsh economy. 🙄
Nipper99Free MemberBecause if you rode in Wales you would know that the b/ways etc. that we do have are little ridden. Where are the pressure points. How is wider access going to resolve a problem that does not exist in reality.
Given the above how will wider access equal more visitors and even then more low skill low pay jobs is just what we don’t need.
monkeysfeetFree MemberBecause if you rode in Wales you would know that the b/ways etc. that we do have are little ridden. Where are the pressure points. How is wider access going to resolve a problem that does not exist in reality.
I take it you have never organised a MTB event? As part of NWMBA we are actively involved in organising and promoting MTB in Wales. We do have access issues, both locally and nationally.
Given the above how will wider access equal more visitors and even then more low skill low pay jobs is just what we don’t need
I would like you to take that attitude to some of the more deprived areas of Wales 😯
Nipper99Free MemberThe more deprived areas of Wales need and deserve better skilled better paid jobs – how is wider access going deliver that.
Trans Wales event crossed our commons with no problem, Brecon Beast goes from year to year with no problem??
monkeysfeetFree MemberTrans Wales event crossed our commons with no problem, Brecon Beast goes from year to year with no problem
So, what was your part in organising these events?
mattsccmFree MemberNipper has very good point you know but it will not be recognised by those who don’t like their own views being questioned.
Also the need to organise events is not there as there is plenty of room to ride without them. That will upset many I know but its thrown in to suggest that individual wants are not everything. Why not leave things as they are, especially when they are fine for a majority, rather than demand change for selfish reasons?Wider access is not needed. To anyone who says otherwise I would ask that you come back when every yard of what is currently available has been ridden. By you.
taxi25Free Member^^^
Have to agree with matt, no shortage of places to ride for me in S.Wales. I know things might be different in other parts, but have a think where can’t you ride now that you would ride with a change in regulations ?monkeysfeetFree MemberWider access may not be needed. This is why the group has been set up.
At present representation is being made by most user groups of Welsh trails, however up until recently the MTB community did not have a voice.
How would we all feel if the consultation process went through without the MTB community being represented?
By having the Open MTB group we have a voice that can put forward our (The MTB Community) views. By signing up you are adding your voice to that group. You may not agree, but if so please say so, that is why the group was set up.
With the likes of Snowdon, user groups have been in consultaion with all parties (for many years)to continue to allow us to use the natural trails in that area. If we did not have these discussions and MTB representation then our access could have been severly reduced over the years…trust me on that, I know the work that has gone in to allow our continued use .saxabarFree MemberTowns like mine (Bethesda, North Wales) would benefit from the boost. Tons of natural riding and locals really don’t mind bikers (I’ve never had a cross word in places that are obviously cheeky). Tellingly we’ve just had a council notice asking which public services we’d ‘like’ to be cut. Seems to me that if we can help Wales compete with Scotland, we might be able to help grow the area.
DelFull MemberThe more deprived areas of Wales need and deserve better skilled better paid jobs – how is wider access going deliver that.
it’s not, but it’s going to prevent it either, is it?
i grew up in a seaside town. i know all about low paid, low skilled jobs. some jobs are better than no jobs though. money spent in your area is money spent in your area. if it means that footpaths get used for mtbs, and, as you say, there’s no conflict anyway, what’s the harm?molgripsFree MemberI’ve never had a cross word in places that are obviously cheeky
I have, but not from locals (in N Wales, that is). In my uni days coming down a beautiful endless grassy ribbon from some mountain or other we stopped at a stile and met some ramblers actually wearing long red socks, an old bloke and three or four old women. The bloke started telling us off for being on a footpath (“Oh really? I didn’t know, I’m not very good at this map reading lark *cough*, sorry”). We apologised and lifted our weightweenie bikes easily over the wall and the women came over all Harry Enfield “Oooh! Young man! Aren’t you strong, oooh!” which annoyed the old bloke even more. He said “hmph, must be one of those new lightweight bikes”..
Ever since, when me or my mate got a new bike the other would enquire if it was a new lightweight one.
MrAgreeableFull MemberHow does wider access benefit farmers
The current system of access is a total dog’s dinner, and reforming it can only make things more straightforward. Those expensive, time-consuming diversion orders round farmyards would become unnecessary, for example, if a Scottish-style system of access was adopted.
if you rode in Wales you would know that the b/ways etc. that we do have are little ridden.
Possibly because the current network is fragmented and takes no account of suitability for bikes? I’ve mountain biked the length and width of Wales by the way.
The more deprived areas of Wales need and deserve better skilled better paid jobs – how is wider access going deliver that.
If you want to typecast the outdoor industry as unskilled and low-paid, go ahead, but there are plenty of people who’d bite your hand off for a chance to earn a living in it. This isn’t just about the economy though – better access to the outdoors would mean a healthier population too.
The need to organise events is not there as there is plenty of room to ride without them.
It’s taken me a few minutes to figure out where to start with this gem, but… what about people who want to compete? Why can you use a RoW for a rally stage but not a bike race? It’s not only unfair, it’s a major headache for venues like Bikepark Wales which have RoW crossing their land.
MrAgreeableFull MemberThat was a fun day. Friendly chats, tea drinking, lots of pratting about for the photographer, and a couple of ride invites, including one from a Welsh DH champ. 😯
A fair few local clubs made the effort to get out and represent which was much appreciated given the mid-week timing and the rugby-related chaos.
http://www.ctc.org.uk/press-release/2015-09-23/trails-wales-leads-senedd
Chatted to Ems Davis afterwards and he said that until he was contacted by the campaign, he had no idea how badly RoW law messes things up for race organisers. A great illustration of how as awareness of RoW issues grows, so will demand for reform.
sideshowFree Memberthe need to organise events is not there as there is plenty of room to ride without them.
The *need* to ride mountain bikes whatsoever does not exist, it’s a luxury. If this is your take on the campaign perhaps you should stop riding mtb altogether?
I really don’t think you need it, perhaps you could take up knitting, it’s more socially useful.
Or you could ask yourself who you are to dictate what others should or shouldn’t want? 😉
individual wants are not everything.
But what is society other than people representing their individual wants, helping one another and working out a reasonable compromise between all?
Why not leave things as they are, especially when they are fine for a majority, rather than demand change for selfish reasons?
Why not ask for the things you think would be a good idea? Why a presumption in favour of right of way laws that were never designed to deal with modern trail uses (ie recreation not necessity)?
Wider access is not needed. To anyone who says otherwise I would ask that you come back when every yard of what is currently available has been ridden. By you.
I have ridden most of Wales’ good bits, and certainly all of the good bits accessible from my door after work, many times over!
timidwheelerFree MemberQuick bump to remind anyone who has been meaning to contribute. The consultation finishes tomorrow.
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