I am looking to get a trail full sus frame or bike to replace my Whyte 905 hardtail (size medium) due to a combination of my bad back and how efficient they seem to pedal these days. I had never ridden a full sus until the other week so need some advice from full sus owners. I have customised my Whyte (Pike RCT3 Boost, XT 2×10 drivetrain, wide tough wheels, 150mm dropper), so would like to just buy a 650b frame and transfer everything across or whole bike and sell off everything on it.

I ride mainly in the Peaks, occasionally go to trail centres and want to explore new areas in the next year e.g. the Lakes. I want a bike that pedals and climbs well (not too much slower than my Whyte), but is also fun on the descents (it doesn’t need to be the fastest). I really like the long, low, slack geo of my Whyte so looking for something similar (min 130mm fork) and I don’t need an Enduro bike for the riding I do.

I demoed a Cotic Flare recently which convinced me to go down the full sus route as it pedalled and climbed better than I thought it would especially with its mostly steel frame. I also liked that it frame is built for a 130mm & 140mm forks so I could change in the future if I decide to go more aggressive. So the Flare is the benchmark, my current shortlist is:

Whyte T-130 SX
Orange Four (Frame)
Bird Aeris 120 (Frame)
Calibre Bossnut V2 – Can also take 130mm & 140mm forks
Transition Scout (Frame)
Vitus Escarpe
Santa Cruz 5010 (Frame)
Cotic Flare (Frame)

Bigger travel – Possibly too much?
Giant Trance (Frame)
Canyon Spectral
YT Jefsy
Trek Remedy

I am going to try and demo as many of the bikes as I can. I need to feel comfortable with the character of the bike. The Flare is one I think I could ride straight away as it felt similar to my Whyte (just with rear suspension), so it is a contender.

Any other bikes I should be looking to demo? Comments from owners of the above very welcome! Looking to spend max £1,750 on a frame (or equivalent after selling the bits off a full bike) but less would be better 🙂

I had an On One 45650b which rode very well in my opinion. I purchased a second hand Vitus Escarpe frame on Pinkbike and transferred all the parts.

Only things i needed were adaptors for the rear hub and a different sized seatpost. The other thing was the rear brake hose wasnt long enough for the new frame.

What i liked about the 135mm travel is that it feels closer to a hardtail than i imagine a longer travel frame would. Although i havent ridden any of the current crop of 150/160mm Trail frames.

Transferring the parts was painless and didnt take long. First ride out i was amazed the difference it made and the extra speed i could hit things at. The bike is also really quiet which is nice. Just the noise of tyres, freewheel and me struggling to breathe.

The On One

The Escarpe

So many good options for mid-travel 650b bikes now.

Sounds like you’ll be sorry if you don’t get the Cotic. I’ve not ridden the Flare myself but I thought the FlareMax was very special when I demo-ed it.

Probably the bird 120

The new bossnut looks good in the red, hadn’t seen that before,i wonder if they sorted out the problem of the wheel touching the frame on the new one?,if so that would cost you almost nothing after selling the whyte frame and leftover parts.

My misses has just got the bossnut ladies version; I think the difference over the male version is the bars/stem/grips and a few pink stickers. we’ve had no problem with wheel on frame touching so far….for the money (£800) it is an amazing bike.

In recommend what you have shocker, I would add the Orbea Occam AM to the list.

I had a similar list to you and demoed some of them and this is what I ended up with. Fantastic bike.

To be honest every bike on your list would be great especially as its your first F/S. Most people are only going to recommend what they’ve got or what they’re mates have. Go with whatever ever one suits your budget and you like the look of most, it’s how I’ve bought 99% of my bikes.

PS. I think the Cotics are particularly strong on pedaling/climbing, if that’s a priority.

Thanks for the replies so far!

nairnster did you notice the additional weight of the full sus vs your HT when climbing?

I believe the Bossnut V2 has a new rocker link so has greater tyre clearance than the last version. It does look great value for money (especially if bought through C2W). I think it has a QR rear, that’s really the only negative thing I can see.

blitz I will add the Orbea Occam AM to my shortlist.

chakaping The Flare did seem to climb well even with the shock open, but I need to demo the other bikes to compare really.

I’d Demo

Whyte
5010
Scout

Have ridden Whyte 130, Orange and 5010 I’d guess 5010 is the ideal for me.

Orange 4 – just felt like a heavy lump compared to the Whyte and SC. This is opinion based on demoing them and how I ride and where I ride. Buyer be aware

Building from frame is ideal, you get the bike with the bits you want. Ive never understood the buying then months later ‘upgrading’. What I can say is that no two bikes ride the same and you should try before you buy. There is no rush

I did notice the weight but it wasnt a major thing, and found it offset by the extra traction. I have now beaten times on climbs that i originally did on the hardtail.

PS. I think the Cotics are particularly strong on pedaling/climbing, if that’s a priority.

Yep.

In the grand tradition of recommend what you have, I’ve been stunned at how much better the Flare is up (most) hills compared with my HT, even though it is significantly heavier. I’m clearing stuff with relative ease that I regularly dabbed before.

Worth having a play with the FlareMax though – it may even be better suited to Peak riding.

It’s taken me a while, and a couple of feeble goes at selling the frame, to actually get the Flare (and other FS bikes as well, probably). It’s a keeper now I reckon. It’s built up with wide-ish 26″ rims and Ranger 2.8s too, so you don’t ‘need’ to go 650B all at once.

Pawsy_Bear Cheers for the feedback on your demo’s. Having all the components already that I like will make the transition easier, but one some frames I might have to upgrade to 1x.

nairnster & martinhutch That’s good to know, I like to try and beat myself on climbs (I am never going to get near a KOM on Strava). The FlareMAX is 27.5 + / 29″ and with the Whyte being 27.5 I am going to stick to normal 27.5. I have wheels and tyres I like all set up tubeless.

I’m lucky to have both. I ride exmoor/ quantocks kinda stuff so similar to the peaks in paces but generally less rocky. My local stuff is nice singletrack in places

Started with a Cotic soul 26 @ 120mm then bought a transition bandit 27.5 which has 140 out the back and started with 140 on the front and a 68 degree. Despite being heavier, slacker and 140 it climbs at least as well as the soul did everywhere and often better, especially as it gets rougher or more tech. All my strava PRs uphill and downhill have been set on the bandit including a couple of KOMs on less busy segments except a couple of fireroad climbs that a couple bike races up

I’ve since bought a transition trans am 27.5 which is slacker and heavier than the soul but still lighter than the bandit. The bandit now has 150 fork and offset bushings and a reach increasing headset so the head angle is 66 at the most. It still climbs at least as well as the hardtail and is so confident downhill either in a loose rocky straight line or railing round rutted corners. It hasn’t felt too much on my regular riding in the way that bikes like the whyte g160 or other 160 bikes I’ve ridden here.

The scout is the replacement for the bandit and is supposedly better descending (than the stock bandit) and good uphill.

I’ve ridden a whyte t130. It’s easy to see why it’s so well regarded. Climbs really well and descends very confidently. It kinda felt slightly hardtail like in its stiffness and response but with the added big hit swallowing of the rear shock.

That said, it wasn’t as confident as my bike when it got more footy and steeper and strava didn’t think it was noticeably quicker uphill either. The jeffsy 27.5 has similar geometry to my bandit now I’ve tweaked it (but a bit longer) and if I was buying I think I’d be very tempted by that.

The flare does look like a fantastic bike though and I’m a Cotic fanboif I’m completely honest!

There’s some extra detail about both versions in the comments

I recall that the Flare can take your 2×10, but the Max can’t – you will probably need a new front mech though, as there is only one variety that fits.

Another recommendation for the Occam.

When I was looking I found a severe shortage of options for 2x gearing.

ceepers Thanks for the detailed post, the T-130 is defiantly a bike I will try and demo as I ‘should’ like it.

martinhutch Yes that’s right, and I would have to get 142mm rear hub caps and a seatpost shim, but that’s it.

scotroutes I’ll look into the Occam, I had never heard of them before.

I would add kona process 134 and Devinci whatever their 130mm travel one is. Bargains on last years models to be found on both. Free on had the Devinci and triton had the kona I think.

I would add kona process 134 and Devinci whatever their 130mm travel one is. Bargains on last years models to be found on both. Free on had the Devinci and triton had the kona I think.

Good shout on the Kona, my first proper bike was a Kona steel HT. I like the look of the geo for the 2017 bike, would have to wait until the 2018 bikes are released and get a deal on the 2017 model. I’ll have a look at the Devinci too.

The bossnut wouldn’t be on that list for me. If it was then the newest Boardman Pro Fs also would be as it has Pikes / 1×11 GX etc on it already (although I think non-boost)

The Whyte t-130 must be an obvious contender – I’ve not heard anything bad about them. Don’t think they’re available as frame only though.

I’ve ridden the Bird Aeris 145 and it was fantastic. Assume the 120 is lighter / better uphill but still handles ok. Got to be worth a demo day to try it out. Boost frame and available as frame only.

A guy that rides in the group in Bristol hassled Transition scout – looks really nice but I’ve never ridden it.

YT mentioned isn’t available frame only either. Might be worth you getting this months WMB as it’s trail bike of the year and all the bikes are 140mm travel or less. Huge selection there reviewed.