Was out for a couple of hours in the Surrey Hills today. On my way down one of the trails (Barry Knows Best for those who know it) I was met with a recumbent rider going up the trail.

The trails here are on private land so no specific directional arrows or anything like that and his point of view is that the trails are for all to use in any direction they choose.

I suspect he may be right but I couldn’t help think it was a bit of a stupid point of view as 99.9% of the directional flow is down the hill and law of big numbers suggests he will at some point meet a rider coming round one of the hairpins at some stage.

It was a friendly convo, I only stopped out of politeness and curiosity for his trike (I was hoping he would offer a shot on it but no 🙁 ), I wasn’t going to mention about him going the “wrong way”.

It’s no biggie really, lots of riders walk back up these trails when they are sessioning but I guess they’re on bikes and can easily get out of your way whereas this guy’s trike was as wide as the trail itself.

Unless a trail is specifically marked for a direction, trail rules (IMBA at least) are that riders going uphill always have right of way over those going down. And all cyclists give way to horses and pedestrians, regardless of direction.

A couple of years ago I met a few keen XC racers pedaling up a DH trail. To this day I have no idea what they were doing. Perhaps they were lost; about 70% of it is impossible to ride up.

They actually stood their ground for a while, perhaps assuming I would adhere to imba guidlines 😈

Well you are wrong.

Arguing with a recumbent rider about what is correct and what is quite clearly, utterly, beyond question WRONG. Is the error you made.

I get that BKB is multidirectional and is open to all but i do also think just because you can, doesn’t mean you should…I personally wouldn’t consider riding up BKB and risk ruining someone’s descent; there’s no need to risk causing a crash/confrontation. Its rare but it happens: couple of years ago I came down BKB and was met by a mum with a buggy, 2 toddlers (out of buggy) & a dog (not on leash) pushing up.

Didn’t you see his little flag?

I’ve always thought that ‘rule’ about descenders giving way to ascenders was ridiculous. But I think IMBA also tells you to not ride in the wet…

No idea where you are talking abiout but unless a trasck is posted by the landowner or his agent then no one should assume anything and as in almost all sports fastest gives way and downhill gives way to up. Doesn’t suit everyone I know but that’s life.

I’ve always thought that ‘rule’ about descenders giving way to ascenders was ridiculous. But I think IMBA also tells you to not ride in the wet…

Common sense innit? Always give way to those going up the hill, it’s much harder to get going again if you’re climbing.

Sounds like it was Barry, and yes he does.

Recumbents approached directly from in front make great practice ramps. And the flag poles are similar to slalom skiing.

Common sense innit? Always give way to those going up the hill, it’s much harder to get going again if you’re climbing.

No no no, maximise the fun going down and have a rest when going up. MOAR ENDURO!!!;)

Didn’t you see his little flag?

Is that a euphemism?

No no no, maximise the fun going down and have a rest when going up. MOAR ENDURO!!!;)

There’s never any rest when you’re 18 stone and shod head to toe in body armour. #lifeofanendurorider

If it’s a not a trail centre or race event then it’s two way traffic.. And yes give way to those going uphill.

“nice bike. I admire your bravery, 99% of the traffic is downhill at speed here, so using it as a climb can be a bit hairy. Enjoy your ride, toodeloo.”

Hopefully common sense kicks in.

He can ride it how he wants, but everyone will enjoy it more if he understands the local trails better. Done in a nice way, like.

Nonsense. It’s attitudes like that that give us a bad reputation, if you are going so fast down hill that you can’t give way to someone coming in the opposite direction on unofficial routes then you are out of control, and riding beyond your ability.

At the very least you should check the trail is clear before blindly blasting down it with that kind of self entitlement.

Childs face

So what about non locals who have never ridden/walked with their kids/dogs are they meant to realise its an unofficial downhill run (that will be a no then) so it is plain stupid to expect no-one to be climbing the hill.

If it’s a not a trail centre or race event then it’s two way traffic.. And yes give way to those going uphill.

Amen.

Thomas the Wise Tank Engine he say, “it’s not wrong, but we just don’t do it…

Tbh I always give way to people going down hills. Their ride is spoiled more by having to stop than mine given I’ll be moving much slower. That seems a much better compromise to me…

Ditto, I always give way to those going downhill. They’ve earned it by already doing the climb and shouldn’t have the fun of the descent interrupted.

Two way traffic on this trail is a bit unusual as it is such a well known and well used trail. It is pretty much an official trail and one of about four in the area that have been managed http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/now-barry-knows-better-1.
(sorry no URL link, those little grey buttons make me crash out of the forum)

There is also a nice bridlepath running alongside it. It is however still on open access land.

Ditto, I always give way to those going downhill. They’ve earned it by already doing the climb and shouldn’t have the fun of the descent interrupted.

My philosophy too.

Two way traffic on this trail is a bit unusual as it is such a well known and well used trail. It is pretty much an official trail and one of about four in the area that have been managed

Ah the “Everyone knows” signs…. there be the problem

I understand the reasoning behind the giving way to the up-hillers, but I’m not a spoilsport so I just hop to one side and let the down-hillers have their fun.

Does no-one here still enjoy the satisfaction of clearing a ‘nice little climb’???

I don’t know the trail but assuming it’s not on an actual bike park, where losing a little speed will mean you’re unable to clear the next obstacle, if you see someone approaching – slow down…
With a bit of extra time to react, you might see that the uphiller is knackered and will stop for a break, otherwise at slower speeds you may be able to roll through at a wider spot.
You are not sponsored by redbull and it’s not down to the second between you, ratboy or Sam Hill.

Does no-one here still enjoy the satisfaction of clearing a ‘nice little climb’???

Yes, absolutely. There are climbs for which a dab-free ascent is just as much of a fun challenge to me as the descent. That said I’m not averse to giving way to downhillers.

I don’t know the trail but assuming it’s not on an actual bike park, where losing a little speed will mean you’re unable to clear the next obstacle, if you see someone approaching – slow down…

So your up is more important than somebody’s down? As always goes both ways

so no specific directional arrows or anything like that

based on the above .

and his point of view is that the trails are for all to use in any direction they choose.

his point of view above is correct – without signs there is no up there is no down – just trails….. how did you get to the top – what if he was coming down there – were you going to jump out of his way and immediately yield to him ?

give and take and live in peace – you werent on a championship winning run – neither was he , if you both slow down and pass each other safely and controlled we will all get along nicely. If you want fully directionalized scaletrix tracks get your self along to a real trail centre with signposts and all…

I too get satisfaction from cleaning a climb, I just prefer the buzz I get from uninterrupted downs so I adjust my ‘rules’ accordingly.

I’ll always give way to downhillers, and expect to be given way when riding down. It’s easier and safer all round, plus maximises fun!

expect to be given way when riding down

tbh, on any multi-directional, non bike dedicated, trail expecting anything from other users is likely to be a recipe for conflict at best.

Ah the “Everyone knows” signs…. there be the problem

The exit gates / fence, braking bumps, berms and continual volume of traffic are a bit of a hint too. That said, each to their own, as long as no-one was being a tit who cares.

I’ll be extra vigilant on Winterfold and Pitch today.

I’ll always give way to downhillers, and expect to be given way when riding down. It’s easier and safer

It’s not though is it, if you’re climbing a steep/rough trail your speed is likely to be <3mph, if it’s a fast, blind section and someone comes round the corner who has more time to react, the guy looking 30m ahead, with momentum to change lines and will cover the distance to the climber in a few seconds (or fractions of) or the climber, who’ll barely move, and to get out the way would probably need to dismount?

Same as sailing, the windward (uphill) boat gives way because they’re judged to be better able to maneuver with their greater speed and ability to change direction.

I assume it’s the recently ex golfers who don’t accept that those going up have priority?

It applies to walkers, climbers, pretty much everyone outdoors.
It’s common sense and courteous.

This is where “Right of Way” and “Trail Etiquette” diverge.

Right of Way might give priority to anyone coming up… (They have a right to stand their ground.)
but…
Trail Etiquette would in my view always lead me as a rider to get right out of the way of another rider coming down, so as to avoid spoiling their fun.

Very different things.

STRAAAAAAAAVA!

I doubt any local rider would ride up with out being very nervous of someone at high speed coming in the opposite direction.

Someone new to the area might welcome friendly advice of the best way to get to the top, getting the tone right is the thing.

STRAAAAAAAAVA!

from bar mounted speakers on your way down.Should do the trick 🙂