I have ridden parks all over the world and even in the States I have never come across somebody standing around with a clipboard and a whistle, commanding the troops.

Edukator I would suggest that there aren't many of them about and that you are, in fact, talking shite.

juan – Member

As for the OP I think that complaning that people may fall/take it easy on a BLUE (it mean it's an easy trail you know) trail it's like complaning that london is expensive and full of people.

Cardinal sin – not reading the OP.

It wasn't a complaint about folk going slow – Resin42 even said "them's the breaks". It was about folk having stopped in the middle of the trail and not getting them/their children out of the way.

Most amusing Shandy. You seem to have a misguided view of piste law in France. Suicide is legal, breaking the rules and injuring others will see you in court, and claiming the downhill skier was being stupid will get you nowhere.

Accident de ski, collision entre skieurs, Responsabilité du skieur amont, défaut de maitrise, Responsabilité entière du skieur amont. Cour d’appel de Chambéry 11 septembre 2007.

Un moniteur de ski évoluait avec ses élèves sur une piste de ski lorsqu’il a été heurté par un autre skieur amont et blessé.

Le skieur amont a donc commis une faute en ne s’assurant pas qu’il pouvait amorcer un virage sans danger.

En tout état de cause et sur le fondement de l’article 1384 alinéa 1er du code civil, la responsabilité du skieur est entière dans la mesure forment un ensemble et ou le déplacement de celui-ci dépend étroitement de ses skis, de telle sorte que ce sont bien ses skis qui sont l’instrument du dommage.

Ce régime permet ainsi à la victime d’être indemnisée sans avoir à démontrer la faute de la personne qui l’a percutée.

Cette dernière ne pourra s’exonérer de sa responsabilité qu’en prouvant l’existence d’un cas de force majeure ou d’une cause étrangère…

Cardinal sin – not reading the OP.

Carinal sin misreading my reply 😉

I can see why you prefer to keep your location secret. Being such a gaping asshole has obviously left you slightly paranoid. There is also no point in quoting French law as they will ignore/apply their laws as it suits them.

People hit each other on the hills of Europe every day. Most of those incidents don't lead to legal proceedings because most people are prepared to take some level of responsibilty for their own stupidity.

No need for a clipboard Shandy, and no need to say or do anything while it's only the regulars in the park. As with the kids on trails thread, when newbies turn up they sometimes need a quiet word in their ears and when the place gets busy any anti-social types get a loud word.

As with the kids on trails thread…

yeah, where did that go? 😕

OOOOOOoooooo

The rest of the page I quoted from – lots of incidents lead to legal proceedings. Those aren't laws they are verdicts. People in France tend to take responsibility for their own actions but if you break the rules and hurt them you'll need a lawyer and hope your insurance company coughs up (which it won't if you are deemed to have deliberately broken the rules and fined)

I'm pretty new to this juan, if you remember, and it's only in recent weeks that I haven't been the slowest fecker on the trail. As my ability and my speed increase I intend to keep pushing it. Saying if I want to go fast I should go do proper racing is churlish. I can't get to trail centres mid week so am I not allowed to go fast? I realise trail centres are busy at the weekends and I've no problem slowing down for slower riders, although it would be nice if they let me pass, (I usually do for others) but they don't have to, I accept that. The fact is that I'm by no means the fastest thing going down that trail but they must all be XC wannabes too.

It's still not what my first post was about.

i usually find buzzing the stopped/ injured rider as fast as possible whilst yelling obscene abuse almost guarantees they will never do it again. in fact they may never ride again, more trails for me!

sorry for not contributing anything sensible but really, whats the point when you have cocks like edukator blowing everything out of proportion with no sense of context? it was an expression of frustration, not a demonstration of arrogance and self importance you angry little man.

Give and take ladies, give and take.

OK so I have never been blamed for hitting anybody in ten years and five seasons on snow, but I'll bear in mind that if I suddenly lose the plot and cleave an innocent child into two pieces I might get into trouble for it.

Thanks for the compliment Slowrider, I feel honoured to have been called a cock by someone so Internet hard as your good self.

I'm not in the least bit angry and as the intelligent forum contributors seem to have taken on board some of my comments, even if they don't agree with all of them, that was a successful bit of edukating.

Edukator – I totally agree with all your comments. Skiing or otherwsie.

I'm hoping to take my 6 year nephew on a blue trail soon. He'll be slow and may fall off. If possible I'll clear him to the side of the trail but hopefully the riders on this type of trail will realise there maybe children, nervous riders and/or total beginners and take into consideration that the person in front has right of way.

Edukator – Member

"Absolutely" incapable of thinking for yourself littlebunnygirl. If you've got something to add, add away.

No need for immature personal insults, I am quite capable of thinking for myself. I didn't think it necessary to repeat something when Resin42 had summed up my thoughts quite succinctly enough, thus leaving me to do nothing other than add my support for his opinion.

Still nothing to add about kids on trails in your own words then litlebunnygirl.

I have been guilty of it, must admit. At the time it was probably a case of me being just too crap to ride a certain feature, where others may fly through. You hopefully learn though and dont do it again…

On natural trails though, I guess you need to accept that you are going to stop occasionally. I was a walker before a Mountain biker and when I got into the sport It came as a shock to me just how many trails there were and how popular it all is; it never even crossed my mind that bikes were using the same areas I was taking my dogs on…

I always bear this in mind when flying over a mound which is blind the other side; you never know what is there.

Back to the OP comment though, you would hope that comon sense would prevail. I certainly wont be resting on the line tomorrow!

Edukator, may I ask if your always this responsible/intelligent/think yourself better than others (delete as applicable) or do you occasionally go outside and make mistakes like normal people.

I'm not sure why you are so obviously offended by all this. Resin has got a bit frustrated because somebody decided it would be a good idea to stop and have a picnic on a berm!! And he felt it was a good topic to bring up.

Judging by the amount of comments that actually have anything to do with this thread and not about Skiing, it seems a lot of people have come across this. Maybe you are one of those people. Or maybe your the Idiot that decides to stop and block the path!! Hence why your so upset by the topic 😉

And why, may i ask, do all your posts stink with such an air of arrogance.

its that stench again.

im sure i know it from somewhere.

oh yeah…..

F***ing hell!
If you stop, get off the trail.
Let faster riders pass as soon is safe to.
Don't litter.
It's not exactly extensive is it?
If you decide to try a new sport, learn the f***ing rules!

For the love of God, think of the children.

It would appear some of you can't find an argument so slag off the Internet persona instead. Feel free. Nobody else got anything to say about kids on bikes or pistes?

Children should be seen and not heard.

and children should be eaten as often as possible

The children are our future.

This is just a little bit too much for me to bite my tongue on i'm afraid.

Kids, on a Blue trail, should not be abused or buzzed by self righteous older folks, who should know better.
It is not your god-given right to have a flawless un-interrupted run from top to bottom.

Last time I ran the blue descent, I was courteous and encouraging to all the 'kids' who I came across.
If you want to rag about on empty trails, the get yourself up the black.

I hope to take my nephew up there after he get's his first 'proper' MTB this Christmas.
I'll be taking him round the Green a couple of times and hopefully down the blue for a bit of descending (if i think he can handle it).

Please remember, It's not just your trail ! It's not !
Treat everyone, even kids, trying to get themselves back on their bike, or limp round a berm for the first time, with a little respect. And maybe even a little sympathy.

From the FC website for GT

For the beginner, the Skills Area has differently graded sections to help you get started. If you’re looking to go a little further, the Green Route offers real mountain biking, but with none of the scary stuff found on the harder trails.

With cracking sections of singletrack, the Blue Route is a great trail for riders with some previous experience and a bit more fitness – the hidden gem of Glentress?

couple of things need clarifying here. I'm a snowboard instructor in switzerland, so have some familiarity with piste rules… and one of the first things you learn is that you should never ever rejoin the piste without checking uphill first to make sure it's clear. so Shandy clearly had the right of way, the chap whose pole he broke was in the wrong and Edukator doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. he doesn't seem to have much command of French either, since that incident in Chambery refers to a specific accident where an uphill skier hit an instructor *who was already on the piste* with his pupils.

the snowpark is a hazy area. if I'm riding for myself, I spend most of the time off-piste, but if I do venture into the park in search of personal injury then I don't expect to find some retard loitering in the landing zones. this bizarre concept of a "supervised park" put forward by Edukator is something of a myth. maybe in the US resorts, or some of the bigger European parks, but otherwise this just doesn't happen: you're on your own – if it looks clear, just stick your paw in the air and drop in. having said that, if you're going large you should always check out your landing first (or get a friend to signal it's clear). if I'd just wiped out on a landing and was injured, I wouldn't be too impressed if someone else landed on top of me.

as far as children on trails are concerned, I think we should have as many children riding as possible. but their parents or whoever is in charge of them should make sure they understand how to behave on the trails (i.e. get out of the way when you stop!) and they shouldn't be riding unsupervised at busy trail centres until they've shown they can ride responsibly.

came up behind someone quite fast on mushroom pie, shouted clearly within plenty of time rider coming through, then again as i came up behind him 'pro rider coming through', he hit his front brake on the berm, went tit over tat. Luckily i stopped professionally using the skid control, mentioned how good his front brake was, that his skillz were poor, he wasn't going quick enough and wheelied away like a pro. I'm sure he learned valuable lessons about getting in the way of my fun!!

Luckily he was wearing a helmet and no earphones or that would be a new thread entirely

Pro riderz rule!!!

Ha ha ha ha oh my god. I'm glad I don't come across Edukator in my everyday life.
exemple.com is an interesting site too? you own that one?

I just think that some people just need to learn a bit of common sense.
I've got a friend who's 23 and used to stand in the middle of the trail all the time but we berated him enough for him to learn that it wasn't the best place to stop.

Faut réviser tes idées sur moi furry-marmot. Les parcs supervisés y en à de plus en plus. L'incident que j'ai cité est pertinent. Attention, avec tes remarques sur mon niveau de Français tu risques de te rendre ridicule, eh oui, je suis aussi à l'aise dans la langue de Molière que sur les pistes et sur les forums. Allez, cherche la faute, t'en trouvera moins que dans mon Anglais, si t'es pas bête ça va te dire quelque chose que je ne dirai pas noir sur blanc ici.

Lis encore les contributions de Shandy. Il est claire que le type a une imagination fertile et raconte franchement n'importe quoi. Il invente des situations bidons pour soutenir sa thèse et refuse d'entrer dans le détail.

Ici à ……. on est confronté à l'arrogance* d'une minorité de surfeurs dont Shandy fait sans doute partie. Ils sont arrogant, égoïste et dangereux, et mes amis pisteurs et gendarmes n'hésitent pas à sanctionner – normalement avec un retrait de forfait si il n'y a pas de blessé.

Je suis un allié formidable et un adversaire redoutable. Relis ce sujet et voir si t'as pas envie de changer de camp. 🙂

* oui je arrogant sur STW, il y a quelque mecs bien que je respecte dans une court de récré ou la mentalité de bande règne, je leurs tiens tête – ils apprécie pas, ils m'insultent, je m'en fous. T'es un mec bien toi ?

meme si tu maitrises le francais, t'es un monstre con quasiment sans pareil. je ne vois aucun but en cherchant des arguments avec des tels attardes… mais franchement ca m'etonne pas d'entendre des telles conneries d'un skieur francais…

(simplified translation: even if you can speak french, you're still a colossal idiot and I see no point in arguing with retards. but frankly I'm not surprised to hear such stupidity from a french skier).

lots of kids on the local bike park,they pull up chatting on berms and all sorts of stuff,I have no problem with them being out as I really like to see it but a lot of them have no idea of whats going on around them,people pulled up in stupid places strewn accross the trail at a downhill park is a recipy for disaster,I've nearly 't' boned a few as they are chatting at the side of the trail and just set off without looking,I think the difference with kids is they will just randomly stop in the middle of the trail and people don't expect it,where as most adults will pull up somewhere that they don't think they will get hit,I didn't bother at a trail centre though as lots of people would be dotted around the trail

je ne vois aucun but en cherchant

Moi je ne vois aucun intérêt à chercher la bagarre non plus (note la subtilité avec laquelle je joue mon rôle d'éduckator) mais j'adore laisser les gens se dévoiler. Ta touche de xénophobie finale m'a fait énormément plaisir.

How easily the elitist, I-am-a-boarding-biking-god-and-you-will-get-out-of-my-way instructor falls.

Anybody else on the night shift?

Well I sure can spot many mistakes in both éducateur and furry marmot French.

But that skills come with the job 😉

But that skills come with the job 🙂

It's sunday afternoon, on the learner run, at the busiest trail centre in the country.

You should be riding according to the surroundings and conditions, and expect to stop for younger riders. After a few polite "excuse me there please !" comments I am sure they will learn. You will get hurt too if you crash into somebody.

If you want tumbleweeds head up onto the black.

furry_marmot – Thank you for a sensible and informed thought on the thread, seems some people are all too happy to go off the point and start slagging each other off.

As to the original point by the OP's post, I agree that anyone new to trail centres or just trails in general should be made aware of the generally 'unwritten rules' of trail etiquette. And all the abuse thrown his way just seems childish and pretty pointless, but I guess that's the internet for you.

I whole heartedly embrace the ethoses of inclusion, I look forward to when my son is old enough to take to GT. I was directly behind Resin on said trail and the scene was two adults standing on the trail at a berm discussing the weather, we slowed to pass them to meet three under tens on the straight to the next berm to then meet the girl on the next. Most riders will hit speeds that are comparable to cars on similar terrain, would they stand in the middle of a road like that. It just screams of walkers in Bermuda shorts and trainers getting rescued on the hills, a bit of common scene and realisation of where you are is all that's required. Some of the kids up there could be a future world champs.

Maybe I'm not riding in all the busiest places, but I honestly can't think of a time when I've been riding and had to put up with the agro some people on here seem to. I imagine weekends at Glentress may be manic, but normally surely the trails are never that busy that people can't all get along?

It just screams of walkers in Bermuda shorts and trainers getting rescued on the hills

Far more very well equipped people end up getting rescued, perhaps because their level of equipment gives them a false sense of security. The only people I know of that have died in the mountains because they were only wearing shorts and trainers were lulled into a false sense of security because they were doing a race and trusted to the organisers rather than taking responsibility of their own actions – in which case they wouldn't have been up there given the conditions.

There's often an overloaded gent close to a heart attack and exhaustion to offer unpaid advice as I jog over the summits in a T-shirt and shorts. Who is objectively taking the greater risk? No-one is immune from misjudgement and if ever I'm guilty of it it'll just have to be generous thanks and a large donation if my poor risk assessment results in a call-out.