So I have seen my precious Trans Savoie entry downgraded first to a weeks holiday and now to the most expensive nothing in history.

Fortunately I only paid the deposit but that was still a big fat wedge – intended to pay the remainder last week but had to buy a new car thank god.

Had two holidays with Trail Addiction in the past and had a great time. I feel sorry for guides and the staff who were excellent.

Obviously I dont know the story but I find it very hard to believe the owners do not have enough money to pay everyone back. These holidays are super expensive and they sell out for every week of the Summer.

Smells very fishy to me – I reckon my deposit is sat quite happily in a big fat bank account in the Cayman Islands…along with most of the company’s assets.

Other opinions are available

But probably Incorrect

Oh well – at least I have a load of GPX files that cant be stolen 🙂

– I reckon my deposit is sat quite happily in a big fat bank account in the Cayman Islands…

While i understand it’s hard not to feel bitter, i don’t think I’ve ever met MTB alpine company owners routinely using £20 notes to light their massive cigars and bathing in vintage Moet et Chandon

ndthornton – Member

Obviously I dont know the story but I find it very hard to believe the owners do not have enough money to pay everyone back.

Remember that you’re just one creditor, and if the story of the big tax bill is true, they’re also a creditor. It’s not about how much money they had in the bank on day x but about all the different places it might be committed. Sucks I know but it’s not straightforward.

What doubly sucks, is that probably more people will have paid in advance because of the shitty £/euro rate

While i understand it’s hard not to feel bitter, i don’t think I’ve ever met MTB alpine company owners routinely using £20 notes to light their massive cigars and bathing in vintage Moet et Chandon

I have – Iv met the owners – that’s exactly the impression I got from them. They come to meet the guests on the last day of the weeks holiday. The only time they looked interested was when they were talking about all the money they were making that year from Trans Savoie. I got bored very quickly and toddled off.

That’s not bitterness – I’m really not that bothered since I just had a knee op its probably for the best anyway. Its just an observation – they are business people after all.

I used them once and I vaguely remember one of the owners arriving in some kind of Porsche (GT3?) with a bike crammed in the back. It was the MTB guides that were making naff all, especially given how hard they worked. As a customer it was great and we got loads of riding in, but not sure I’d have wanted to work there!

With most of the guiding companies I’ve holidayed with, the owners are also intimately involved in the operation of the holidays – as hosts, guides, coaches, chefs and everything else. I get the impression that Trail Addiction was a somewhat larger operation than that, but I’d be surprised if anybody gets rich from these set ups.

To add insult to injury we also found out the lifts wouldn’t have been open for remainder of the trip and the £1100 airbnb has a 50% + service charge cancellation policy!

Just had the good news that the owner has agreed to move the dates back so we’ll be there when the lifts are open for no charge.

Losing £162.50 bothers me less than the thought of having to pedal from Bourg to Les Arcs for nine days!

I’ve been riding at Les Arcs for the last 5 years or so in the summer and organise my biking cliche ride there.

Last year, TA were not to be seen in the area, advertising at the Vallandry lift bar had gone and I didn’t see the normal groups out and about.

I know the reason behind this but that’s for someone else to add.

What i would say is that the bike park trails have been improved quite a bit in the last couple of years and some new non park trails have appeared over towards Vernettes. I have about 150km of marked trails on our map that we’ve worked out over the years.

I heard that the Marie of Seez has banned bikes, that means Double header might be no go this year. It’s a shame but there’s no global policy for bikes so Mayor’s can clamp down e.g Chamonix valley.

What I would advise though is be careful if you are going to trail find yourself without a guide. I’ve been at the top of Mt Jovet in snow whilst it was 25’c in the valleys. We nearly lost a rider on magic carpet and me n buddie got on the wrong side of the lovely white fluffy sheep hounds that actually try to kill you on la varda ridge.

cardo – Member
Thanks hughjayteens… dont know about you but I was proper looking forward to this too.

I was really looking forward to it – was gutted when it went from race to tour and then double gutted to hear this news! Have managed to switch our booking to White Rooms for the same week so will be riding in the same area at the same time (for less money too assuming we get our deposits back!) so not all bad.

I heard that the Marie of Seez has banned bikes, that means Double header might be no go this year. It’s a shame but there’s no global policy for bikes so Mayor’s can clamp down e.g Chamonix valley.

This happened last year. Didnt really change much for our week, but meant we couldnt ride million switchbacks – one of my faves.

Does anyone have a link or want to share their GPXs? Perhaps sharing them will make it less painful for those who are still going?

I’ve not been with TA as we’ve always stayed with WhiteBeam, but when I have enquired it’s their way or the highway, no flexibility in guiding only or accommodation only.

Trailforks has quite a few to start with. Hopefully folk might load more on now….. ?

Shame to see em go – actually got engaged when out riding with TA!

rapiddescent – Member

I heard that the Marie of Seez has banned bikes, that means Double header might be no go this year. It’s a shame but there’s no global policy for bikes so Mayor’s can clamp down e.g Chamonix valley.

I’ve heard from a couple of people that this was a result of trailaddiction running races on the footpaths without permission… Take it with a pinch of salt though.

That is what I suspected as the instigator NW, but didn’t want to say as it was just speculation 🙂
There were a few grumbles from locals as we raced passed their gardens.
Locals complain to mayor and local auth, and you get yourself major pain.

Fingers crossed for 2018

There was a meeting in Séez at the end of last season about the ban, and it sounded like there may be some more bike-friendly access arrangements for this year, with a couple of detours around very popular bits of footpath potentially:

http://mbf-france.fr/articlesentinelle/rendez-en-mairie-seez

We did ride Double Header last year and didn’t see any signs etc, but heard about it in the paper later.

Not sure I’m totally happy with the change to the lift pass to separate the arcs side to la plange side. It means that a quick premiere league at the end of the day becomes a major hassle of buying an add on lift pass to get across Vanoise express.

The TA business (if run properly) is viable in Peisey and I hope they, or someone else, can continue running holidays there.

Is the lift pass separation new for this year? We bought paradiski season passes last year but we had to go to La Plagne to get them.

Last time we were down there (2015 I think) the standard pass didn’t cover the vanoise express, it was a paid extra. I seem to remember there was some botheration about not being able to buy the go-anywhere pass in bourg but not sure.

(tbf I didn’t think any of the riding we did over the other side was worth paying extra for, or the transit time across the express, but ymmv…)

such a big amount sounds like an URSSAF tax bill . which are due on staff wages by the employer . probably a disagreement on how their staff were employed and liable to pay tax on it .

Just had an email from ABTOT to say that I’ll have my deposit refunded this week. Very efficient service. Hurry up and get your forms sent in if you haven’t yet.

Just had an email from ABTOT to say that I’ll have my deposit refunded this week. Very efficient service. Hurry up and get your forms sent in if you haven’t yet.

did you pay by bank transfer?
I paid by debit card – the forms said there was no money set aside to cover these payments and that I should contact my bank for a refund….which I have done.
Is it also worth trying with ABTOT

did you pay by bank transfer?
I paid by debit card – the forms said there was no money set aside to cover these payments and that I should contact my bank for a refund….which I have done.
Is it also worth trying with ABTOT

Yes I paid by bank transfer. ABTOT covers you if your credit/debit card doesn’t. I downloaded the forms, sent it in with printouts of my bank statements showing the date the money left my account, a copy of the email I had from TA confirming receipt, and within 10 days, I got an email back from ABTOT saying I’ll have it back this week.

Definitely send in a claim – the ABTOT form has a place to fill in your debit card details for the refund.

Also heard from ABTOT today, should have my deposit back by the end of the month… 🙂

Money refunded today. Very impressed by ABTOT.

Just saw this in the news bit, obviously sad for those affected but wasn’t this the company that posted lots of shots of bling bikes on top of Porsches all the time? Obviously not that short of cash.

A taste of what is to come when we slip away from Europe….

What Brexit is going to massively increase tax demands ? Ad a few of is posted a monyh ago this smacks very much of local aithorities closing dien a business they didn’t like

Ali liked his cars, he had a black 911 when he came to dest-X but as I understand it was boightt used and he had another full time job. You are not going to be buying fancy sports cars from bike holiday company profits

What’s happened to Ash then- is he just a shareholder now, no other connection? Presumably Trans Provence is a completely separate outfit?

This Trail Addiction story is a shining example of how to do protectionism ‘the French way’.

You don’t enunciate the policy properly (that attracts all sorts of unwelcome questions and pressure). No, you pay lip service to the bid ideal of free trade etc whilst actually making the administrative burden of trading there as a foreign company unbearable.

It’s like the Al Capone tax thing, but with much less noble motives.

You’ve got to admire the French sometimes as they play the game on one hand yet blatantly do the opposite in practice.

This Trail Addiction story is a shining example of how to do protectionism ‘the French way’.

No it is a shining example of a French company trying to flout French tax laws by pretending to be British.

Having read the biased story on the STW front page a few comments. I ran a successful business in France for 10 years. We could have had all the problems TrailAddiction had but didn’t because we didn’t ignore French law, try to bend it or do anything to try and gain unfair competitive advantage.

The tax man. We had a control fiscal, two in fact. They went through the books with a tooth comb (including half an hour debate around a 1e bus ticket with me paying my accountant and legal expert well over 100e for that half hour). Result, nothing to pay because we had done everything to the book.

URSSAF. yup we had a minor issue. I considered fighting it but it would have cost more in legal representation so I was pragmatic and they won 2000e. Had it been more we would have fought and won as they were wrong on a point of law.

Inspection de travail. Minor hassles, no real cost, just hassle.

Looking through the article it’s clear that Trail Addiction knew what they should have been doing but cut costs by trying to bend the rules. The rules are not flexible though. French law is very clear about what constitutes “self-employed”. If you are someone’s sole employer and determine when and where they work then that person is considered an employee and not self employed – and you pay their social security. Social security is expensive so companies cheat and claim people are self employed when they are not. Some companies even claim people who are declared as self-employed in another country are not employees even when they are sent to France to work exclusively for that company.

The headline should read:

TrailAddiction flaunts French employment law with the aim of making higher profits and gets caught red handed.

Unless I’m missing a big piece, the whole “short-term secondment from the British operation” is a pretty obvious scam. And “the company had allocated too little turnover to its French operation”- where else could they realistically apply turnover?

It’s a bit weak to cry witch hunt if you’re actually a witch.

Hard to know without all the facts, but th STW article reads very much like the above The idea that they had full-time UKguides temporarily working in France is laughable.

The EU tightened the rules on “foreign secondment” in 2010 or 2011, it affected me to the tune of a few 100 euros a month. It was clear that the rules were being abused and moved to stop that abuse. That was done at an EU level, it isn’t just a French thing.

So it seems like TA were bending the rules and got away with it until they upset the wrong people at which point their business dealings came under closer scrutiny from the french authorities.

@Northwind @Edukator et al…
You’re embarrassingly way off the mark.
I’ve been biting my tongue this whole thread but I can’t be bothered anymore. I worked alongside Ali for the past 3 1/2 years and your accusations are complete BS. There was nothing malicious on his part.
Who gives a toss if he drove a GT3, he had a very good job at Ford for many years so its completely his right to spend his earned money how he wished.
Do you really think he ran trailAddiction and Trans-Savoie without any legal or financial advise (both in the UK and France)? If you believe the answer is yes then you don’t you’re more foolish than you’re trying to make him out to be.
Short term secondment is not illegal in Europe… Thats one of the main purposes of the EU (to allow free, easy movement of labour)

Ali worked his arse off for the past few years to make the companies and races as successful as they were but in doing so they came under more scrutiny and increased pressure. I imagine far more than you ever did in your 10 years Edukator.

Now enough with your couch analysis and assumption.

Well when we went the guides were vocally less than happy with their working conditions and pay.

Well when we went the guides were vocally less than happy with their working conditions and pay.

To be honest, as an MTB guide (wherever that may be) it’s not a job you do for the massive salary, or working conditions.

It’s more to do with the fact that you get to ride your bike every day, mostly free board & food.

It’s a lifestyle choice, not a career.

I guided for 2 years and accepted the pay and conditions… that was very clear when I applied.
But I’ve had the advantage of working in the outdoor industry my entire career so know when I take a job guiding I’m not just getting paid to play on my bike, but have to think about customers/guests too.

That is one of the biggest issues all seasonal employers have.

timbud – Member

Short term secondment is not illegal in Europe… Thats one of the main purposes of the EU (to allow free, easy movement of labour)

Not illegal, but not intended to be used as a tax dodge either. Where were these guides beind seconded from? Trail Addiction’s big UK-based alpine guiding operation that runs in the winter months?