In a nutshell then-electrician does 1/2 a job badly, then never answers his phone, leaving my tenants without kitchen power etc so I have to get another one in to complete the job. He then belatedly invoices me for the 1/2 job he did (badly). I refuse to pay the full amount and offer parts only so he isn’t out of pocket, and make clear i wasn’t happy with the job.

He refuses this part payment and issues a claim against me.

Question is though, if he wins will I end with a County Court judgement on my credit file. It’s basically my word against his, so I have no idea who would win and I can’t really risk my credit standing over this.

Do I just cave in to the bully risk-wise?

Any advice from the singletrack IANAL collective?

Think you’d only get a CCJ if you lost AND failed to then pay up. I think.

It’s a long while ago but this is how I recall my experience of a CCJ. The outcome was a finding in my favour but the hearing was adjourned (without a formal judgement) to allow my ex-employer to pay up and avoid having a CCJ against him. He did cough up and thus kept his credit record.

Seems to fit with what thegreatape says

Sometimes the customer tradesman interface breaks down, and either side has the opportunity to issue a court summons for non payment, obviously you have a written detail of what was wrong with the job the electrician did along with pictures, and a report by a qualified electrician about the work that hadnt been done, and a time line of calls and emails all required in a court case, or youll loose probably.Then there will, be added court costs and compensation etc.

Surely it isn’t his word against yours. Get a full statement from the tradesman you paid to sort his mess out and it becomes a simple matter of proof that he didn’t complete the job and the work he did do, was below standard.

No court in the world is going to find against you.

Or simply, as per project 😉

So it’s guilty unless you can prove you’re innocent from a small claims court then?

This was a verbal quote, verbally agreed the job etc so from the sounds of your advice/experience project you’d say I should just suck it uo and not risk it then??

obviously you have a written detail of what was wrong with the job the electrician did along with pictures, and a report by a qualified electrician about the work that hadnt been done, and a time line of calls and emails all required in a court case

Surely you most if not all of this??

The main issue for me is not the right/wrong of it but the fact even if it was a total scam claim (let’s say it is for arguments sake) but more that the consequence of losing is a CCJ on my credit record.

I can’t possibly have a CCJ on my record (mortgage application in 2016…) so is the general advice ‘don’t risk it’ just pay him?

No, he’s done ‘little jobs’ at the business premises for years informally and always been reasonable. The invoice was for £120 parts and £40 labour, and I offered to pay the parts. He refused, then slapped me with this court claim, so it ends up being £225 ish with fees now I think.

Think you’d only get a CCJ if you lost AND failed to then pay up. I think.

I think this is true also.

You can file a defense explaining why you didn’t pay and your pre-trial WITHOUT PREJUDICE offer. You can do this I believe yourself without the expense of a lawyer.

I don’t understand why you think it’s guilty until proven innocent – the electrician is taking you to court for payment and you will dispute it. As it stands nothing has been decided.

OP I am pretty sure you have been served with the court papers (he will have paid roughly £50 to do this) which lay out the terms of his claim and what you can do to settle it at this point, eg pay £225. You can file a defense. he can agree a settlement with you directly and withdraw his claim (I have had this happen once before when I accepted a financial settlement from someone taking me to court)

I guess I’ve learnt my lesson regarding documenting quotes etc here. If we’d agreed the job in writing, and a timescale too, I guess it’d be open and shut for me, but as it’s all verbal…

OP, if it’s verbal he is in a weak position

Without a written estimate, how can you prove what work you needed doing, and what worjk was done, and without a qualified report how can you prove the work wasnt done.

eg John asks for a box, i make a box, john then says i made it wrong size, wrong colour and didnt make a lid, john refuses to pay, john goes to small claims and says i made a box, not to specification, i say wheres the plan and specification in writing you failed to provide, my costs involve materials, time , delivery and design skills, john looses the case and i get of money off john for the above.

No, he’s done ‘little jobs’ at the business premises for years informally and always been reasonable. The invoice was for £120 parts and £40 labour, and I offered to pay the parts. He refused, then slapped me with this court claim, so it ends up being £225 ish with fees now I think.

Probably he is having a cash flow problem like all us self employed and has been advised to chase all debtors, other electricians are available

You have to pay him something, and i’d suggest that your offer of parts only isn’t enough, you owe him something for his work even if that isn’t half the cost of the job. Rather than pay him half, or nothing, have you asked him to suggest what he considers reasonable in the light that his work was substandard according to the second sparky (or is this just your opinion of it?)

I’d also assume that the second sparky won’t have charged for the full cost of the job on the basis it was at least part done. Would seem fair then that you offer the difference to him in consideration of the substandard work that he did.

Can you document any of this. As said above, can you get the other sparky to give you a statement of the work done and why it was substandard. In particular if it wasn’t NICEIC standard then you’d have a decent argument as to why you shouldn’t pay him as if he had done a proper job.

In fact, being a rental property, is he even NICEIC? Maybe a call to them to ask their advice? A call to the court to find out if it does go to a hearing, and you have made reasonable attempts to find a solution are they likely to do an adjournment to enable you to resolve it before any judgement gets passed?

Project in ‘the customer is always wrong’ shocker.

I think I’ll leave this thread be there. Thanks for all the advice everyone, appreciated. 🙂

I lost a similar argument ijt he county court and paid up, no CCJ.
If he actually makes good on the threat then using the reply to his summons you can sue for your losses due to his crap work. Then he has borne the cost of the claim (unless you lose of course, then you will have to pay his costs).

having been on the wrong end of a CCJ I can tell you it won’t affect your credit record if it goes against you and just pay up in the required time. until then you’re in dispute, the court is used as a method of resolving that dispute, no fault either side that you could not agree without the intervention of the court.
get it all written down, show that you’ve tried to reach agreement, up to you if you want to make an offer ‘without prejudice’, but if you’re being the bigger man then it at least shows you’ve tried to reach an agreement.
it’s not easy being a tradesman but actually turning up and doing what has been agreed is kind of required, and explaining why you can’t, if you can’t, is only polite really.

No, he’s done ‘little jobs’ at the business premises for years informally and always been reasonable. The invoice was for £120 parts and £40 labour, and I offered to pay the parts.

Wait, all this is over £40 ? Give him the £40. He’s lost himself a regular customer though. This isn’t a good outcome for him overall.

Do some reading.
You can’t get a ccj unless you lose the case and then don’t pay.
Has he served you with a compliant letter before action or just said he’s taking you to court?
Do you have proof you have tried to pay him for the parts. Letters, emails etc. you’re going to need to show you were trying to be reasonable

Sundayjumper – Member

Wait, all this is over £40 ? Give him the £40. He’s lost himself a regular customer though. This isn’t a good outcome for him overall.

+1 You’ve already wasted more than that of your own and everyone here’s time as it is. Cut your losses and learn from it.

leaving my tenants witnesses without kitchen power etc so I have to get another one in to complete the job

Get a statement from them to supply to the court and I imagine you’re golden

Didn’t realise it was for £40. Worth it for the lesson learned

Didn’t realise it was for £40. Worth it for the lesson learned

Curious as it will have cost the electrician roughly £50 to file the claim

You will not get a CCJ at this point, the court “may” find you liable for the cost of the work, and then you will need to pay the full amount and court costs, provided you pay, you will not end with a CCJ…

tbh, given the value in question, I think in this case I would just pay it… and make friends with the new sparky that helped resolve the issue.

PS if you do not want to lose, pay him what you think you owe.
EG if you offer the £40 quid then potentially you owe it. So the court might find against you for the £40, making you liable for his costs. So pay the 40.