So without going into a rant what is the accepted daily rate for a plasterer, plumber, electrician in the West Midlands?

And for that’s rate, how much work would you expect them to do? I.e 1 day is equal to xx hours?

Plasterer: £100-150 p.d.
Plumber: £200+ p.d.
Sparks: £200-250 p.d.

Id usually expect to see 8 till 4ish.

Stoner: really, plus materials ?
…. and how is that justifiable ? And how much work would you hope to get done (hrs “on the job, grafting)

Do you want a rant or an answer?

I is confused

As Stoner did the later shall I do the former ?

You really don’t realise how much things cost do you?
Give us an indication of what you get paid a day, and we can then tell you how much your employer charges you out at… then you can moan about it.

I’ve recently had a flue installer (2x £200 p.d. labour) and experienced roofers on site (£4,400, 2 guys, 10days). So unless it’s menial/unskilled Id start with £2xx. Plasterers a bit less.

Building the house I (4 yrs ago) had a guy on bricklaying and plastering and he worked for £100 a day, but he knew he’d be with us for 6 months continuously.

I’ve just had a bill land on my desk from the sparkle who has wired up some sockets and a light in my garage — no messing with lifting boards, feeding wires through tight spaces etc, simple job….

The price seems a little high. £170 per day, 2 guys to do the job took a whole day, plus £240 in materials -I supplied the back boxes and sockets.
Total is £640, seemed a tad high :-/

I have discussed this wi them, and its not gone down “well” with the sparkies.

Did you not agree a price before they started work?

You expect a skilled trade like a plasterer to work for less than £100 per day on a short term contract?
Any monkey can put plaster on a wall but it takes skill and practise to do it well.
Same goes for other trades, maybe a long term contract might get you a lower daily, or you might get someone inexperienced with pricing their own work who will work on a price that makes them cheap but like everything, you get what you pay for.

Labour seems reasonable, if they wouldn’t have had time to do a days work elsewhere because of your job, then you pay for a day.
Materials though, ask for a more detailed breakdown, that’s where you may be paying too much if you supplied some of it.

the materials seems high what are they claiming they provided?

Stoner: really, plus materials ?
…. and how is that justifiable ? And how much work would you hope to get done (hrs “on the job, grafting)

That’s market rate for you welcome to rules supply and demand. A carpenter I spoke to was charging £500 a day as there is so much work on at the moment (that works out at £130,000 pa)

Needless to say I didn’t hire him, and he won’t be getting any work from when when the building trade crashes in the next 6 months again.

Money does seem mental considering that a lot of work is for *cash*. Some builders are earning as much as doctors

Electrician
£200 -> £250 pd = £52,000 -> £65,000

Plumber
£200 -> £300 pd = £52,000 -> £78,000

Doctors earn from £54,863 according to the NHS and they pay tax 😉

aP

I do that’s part of the problem., I created a shopping basket on the first website I could think of to order electrical stuff (screw fix) and the total for all materials used including screws, plugs, cable clips – (box of each to be sure) came to under £120. Apparently my garage has “nearly 200mtr of wire in it” !!!! I measured it at 2.2 mtrs x 4.1 metres. Lol

So I really can’t see how it’s justifiable – he comes the “you try to be self employed and pay XYZ comments” .

When I go to work I WORK for my 9 hour days, and don’t spend 45 mins getting lunch and 30 mins eating it, then answer the phone every 30 mins, walk off site, and pop back to do a bit after my chat- repeat.

No price agreed first, my builder got the sparks in as he uses them often.

and how is that justifiable ?

How is it not justifiable? All trads require a degree of skill and often professional qualifications, which will usually cost an individual money, then there’s overheads such as vehicle, tools etc. £250 a day for 7-8 hours work, especially in London, is not a huge amount. We recently had some electrical work done, by a friend of mine, and he charged £250 for the day, which we thought was vety reasonable. Or you can spend the time and money getting qualified, trained up, insured, equipped with tools, vehicle etc, and do it yourself.

£1300 to rewire my kitchen… So seems reasonable to me…

did you agree the price in advance? Or were you paying a day rate? If you agreed in advance you just have to suck it up.

if its day rate you really need to be there next to them as some to ensure they aren’t taking the piss. Most builders work hard, but some will take the piss as they can and mobile phones are a nightmare! That’s why building sites have mobile phone zones and if you are there too much you get to take the rest of the job off.

For example I paid some plasters day rate and had to hire them as a pair @ £150 each, but they worked from 8am until 7pm as that was a working day them. Whereas someone else I know paid a builder to make an extension and it took two people five weeks (@250 a day) to dig the foundations for a 12 meter by 8 meter extension…..

For the benefit of those who are not self employed, if you have your own business, you don’t get paid when:
-You’re on holiday
-You’re sick
-You’re retired
-You need new tools
-You have to leave a job because you find you now need x and you have
to go and buy it.
-You’ve under estimated a job.
-A customer screws you over.
-you have a couple of hours spare at the end of an afternoon.
-You have no work.
-You screw up.
-You have to re park your vehicle several times a day due to parking rules.
-You have to park illegally to unload and get a ticket.
-You need a workshop and a van.
-You have to pay employees when they are not productive.

I charge £200-240 a day and have never taken more than 20k out of my business; I don’t think that compares to a doctor. I do take about 8 weeks holiday a year and do some childcare though.

the recession is over folks and prices for labour on the up big time.. expect to pay 400 in a big city for gas men 300 for sparks

here in cote de rochdale its 200 and 150 i have a labourer who does for 60 a day but that involves no decsion making and a lot of sitting down and long lunch breaks and he likes tea every 15 minutes

For the benefit of those who are not employed, if you are employed you cannot claim for:

– your meals at work
– the clothes you wear to work
– your phone
– your car
– your fuel to get you to work
– “expenses”
Swings and roundabouts innit

PS I wont get paid when i retire or when I dont work and if i screw up repeatedly the boss sacks me

your meals at work

You can if you’re staying away from home. Just like a self-employed person, but not when you’re not away from home.

the clothes you wear to work

Most tradespeople need specific PPI related clothing. I wouldn’t be buying flooring troons, safety boots or cheap cotton t-shirts to wreck if I wasn’t doing what I do. I wear normal clothes (for which I don’t claim) to work and change into my work kit when I get there.

your car

I have a car, for which I can’t claim. My van is purely a work tool and doesn’t get used privately. If an employed person uses his or her car for work related travel, I gather most companies pay a per mile expense.

“expenses”

I assume this is some kind of TJesque dig at the self-employed who, frankly, are all on the take claiming for expenses they never spend.

Always best to get one’s facts straight JY don’t you think?

Junkyard, just because something goes through your business doesn’t mean you don’t pay for it; you get 20% of its cost off your tax bill only. I certainly don’t put my food through nor spend hours of chargeable time arranging other jobs on the phone.
My remarks were more aimed at folk in well paid jobs and final salary pension schemes; there seem to be a few on here judging by the “Nomad or Bronson” thread (“I couldn’t decide which 6k bike to get so bought both..”).

I’ve just had a bill land on my desk from the sparkle who has wired up some sockets and a light in my garage — no messing with lifting boards, feeding wires through tight spaces etc, simple job….

The price seems a little high. £170 per day, 2 guys to do the job took a whole day, plus £240 in materials

Off and on I’ve been wiring up an old cow shed and some barns, I started two years ago and have only managed one ring circuit completed and that may well burn the place down so yours seem quite reasonable on labour 🙂

Surely nobody seriously expects to get a days work of someone skilled for £100?

For a laugh, I once tried to work out what it would cost to insure myself to a similar level as my wife (a nurse) for time off work due to sickness/accidents.

It is impossible, but to even get near it you’d need to charge around a squillion punds a day to cover the premium, which you still need to pay in the event of a claim 😆

I think £200/day is an absolute minimum, unless work is very slack or as mentioned above, it involves months of steady work.

£200/day is substantially less than £52k/year. Probably nearer to mid 30s which is decent but not fantastic money.

This is a timely thread for me…and apologies if this is a bit of a highjack but IMO it’s on a similar topic.

For The Record…I went through the ‘usual’ 4 year electricians apprenticeship and ended up with a HND in Elec Eng but more or less stopped being trained after I’d finished. It was my own interests that led me to pursue other academic qualifications and I went to Uni after serving my time and ended up with a fist full of qualifications including a Degree and a Masters.

I’m now a self employed Construction / Project Manager working towards ensuring projects (both residential & commercial) are suitably designed / in budget / tendered and then built properly.

So…I’ve been doing a bit of academic reading about the trade market over in Scandinavia / Germany / Switzerland, specifically regarding the construction methods of Passive Housing (which would appear to be the standard type of build of house over yonder). The current trend in our building regulations continues to push the quality of buildings in the UK higher and higher (a great thing) and I’ve been struck by a few observations.

Broadly speaking and in comparison to the academic investment our country is currently engaged in the construction trades have largely been left behind. Through no fault of their own many trades don’t appear to have many of the necessary skills to build the types of buildings that are coming our way through the betterment of the Building regulations.

Conversely, the trades over yonder go through a far more rigorous training program which continues beyond their apprenticeship. I’m led to believe that they can in many spheres of society enjoy a similar social status as other ‘professionals’. Does that mean they get better paid?

I work with lots of trades every day and not surprisingly there are some good ones and some not so good ones. IME the good ones are worth far more and I happily pay them more for their services.

How do we put a value on a job / profession / trade? Is it their professionalism, their qualifications, their patter, our perceptions about how much they know, our perceptions on the complexity of their jobs, how hard they work?

If we trained and invested in our trades more would we be happy to pay them more?

Labour seems fine, material seems ott. I’d love to see what tbey did with the 200m of cable! Ask for your copy of the test results sheet and I’ll work out how much cable they used.

Industry is on the up, I’ve had a few calls recently from companies that can’t get sparkies at all never mind good ones.

bedmaker – Member
Surely nobody seriously expects to get a days work of someone skilled for £100?

For a laugh, I once tried to work out what it would cost to insure myself to a similar level as my wife (a nurse) for time off work due to sickness/accidents.

It is impossible, but to even get near it you’d need to charge around a squillion punds a day to cover the premium, which you still need to pay in the event of a claim

I think £200/day is an absolute minimum, unless work is very slack or as mentioned above, it involves months of steady work.

+1

What’s the old quote…if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Strange how some complain about the cost of work done by tradesmen and women, and then admit they didnt ask how much it was going to cost and failed to ask for a written estimate before work started.

The same people who never complain about some bloke who kicks a ball around every saturday and gets paid many thousands.For a lot less effort.

most people hate to think somebody is earning more than them for what they think is a piss easy job.
do it yourself if it’s that easy?

I’d be quite happy to pay the going rates if any of the feckers ever turn up when they say they will!

I’m in the East Midland – for £550.00 we’ve just had fitted in a conservatory…

Cable from consumer unit to conservatory (20odd feet), 4 double sockets, 2 wall lights, armoured cable to shed (short 8ft run), 2 double sockets and light in shed, and 2 outside lights. Sparky provided all materials apart from wall lights. I lifted all boards.

It’ s interesting that people thnk that certain jobs/professions deserve higher remuneration than others.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/graphic-designer-midlands

We know several excellent photographers for around £300 per day.

Must admit I don’t know of many good creative photographers that will work for £300 a day…

The going rate in Leeds is around £600 to £800 a day. I also deal with a London-based photographer and he charges £1200 a day – but he is very good and choses who he wants to work with.

What’s the reasoning behind this? That certain professins go with certain classes, and therfore the higher the class, the higher the level of ‘deserved’ remuneration?

Lol, do it yourself or pay someone.

There’s a reason I can spanner a car. The money other folks spent at the garage I spent on tools.

Gonna fit a kitchen in my flat soon. I work in IT.

Classic blue collar / white collar shizzle.

We still seem to be stuck in a mantra of If you get your hands dirty, you don’t get paid as much because it must be easy work.

+1 rosscopeco although we’re going to have to do better than NVQ training, introduce continuing professional development and despatch with the high annual professional body fees that purely give a licence to operate and little or no requirements for professional development 😀

What’s the reasoning behind this? That certain professins go with certain classes, and therfore the higher the class, the higher the level of ‘deserved’ remuneration?

i wouldn’t pick photography as an example as it’s a bit of an odd one, it’s classless as there are all sorts who choose it as a career. (one of the reasons i love working in this industry is the total lack of upbringing/schooling bullcrap)
as for renumeration? well you have John in accounts who owns a dslr who will do it for nothing and the sharp end where if i told you the day rates it would just upset a lot of people yet those rates are generally lower than similar ‘jobs’ like commercials directors. thing is its about unique ability and the value you bring to your clients this has a value that i could argue was not always reflected in the day rate.
its also not as easy as it looks 🙄

Setting myself up to be shot down here 🙂

As a white collar worker, it amazes me how hard blue-collar workers work. A mate of mine is a very successful sparky, so I had him come and put a new circuit into my kitchen and a few other bits and pieces. Mates rates were in the region of Stoner’s original comment above. And boy did he work. 8am till 4pm non-stop, and I had to force him to take lunch.

In comparison, me, working as a consultant for mega-bucks IT corp, took home three times what he did in the day, and I mostly spent it here.

But then, I suppose it comes down to how you actually earn the money. He earns it by directly applying a learned skill. I earn it by making sure companies don’t lose millions of pounds (and customers) due to fecked up IT projects.

Electrician
£200 -> £250 pd = £52,000 -> £65,000

Plumber
£200 -> £300 pd = £52,000 -> £78,000

I would calculate £200/day closer to £44k per year- based on 22d/mth and 10 mths. Assuming that you’ve got a fairly steady contracts. you’re not sick, rained off, have to buy specialist tools, pay your transport costs etc. and you have to work fairly hard for it. Sometimes in uncomfortable/dirty conditions. Sometimes for right bawbags.

.

i wouldn’t pick photography as an example as it’s a bit of an odd one, it’s classless as there are all sorts who choose it as a career

It’s definitely a middle class profession though.

“But then, I suppose it comes down to how you actually earn the money. He earns it by directly applying a learned skill. I earn it by making sure companies don’t lose millions of pounds (and customers) due to fecked up IT projects.:”

But he has to ensure that the electrics are safe, so no-one gets kiled, and the buildings don’t catch fire. So quite a bit of responsibility. Nurses save lives, but bankers do deals which can lead to millions suffering hardship/famine/oppression. Etc. Quite simply, working class people aren’t ‘worth’ as much as those in higher classes.

Building the workshop last year, I hired people at:

Brickie / Plasterer £150 pd
Roofer £120 pd
Chippies £200 pd