Towing weights/tow ball weights and bike racks

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Towing weights/tow ball weights and bike racks

28 posts & 19 voices | Started 8 months ago by DickBarton | Latest reply from scottalej

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DickBarton - Member

Hi,

I'm looking at buying a very small car...it has an optional detachable towball that can be fitted and the spec tells me the following -

Max tow weight braked - 700Kg
Max tow weight unbraked - 400Kg
Tow Ball weight - 28Kg

I've no idea what this means...can someone please explain this to me?

Is it possible to fit a towball rack plus at least 2 bikes (say they weigh 30lbs each) on this towball?

I think I've found the 'ideal' car for me but it looks like my bike won't fit in the boot, so I'm thinking along the lines of a towball rack...

Thanks.

P.S. Bike forum as it's about carting my bike around the place to ride in different locations...

Posted 8 months ago #
chvck - Member

It means that the towbar is rated to tow a trailer that weighs upto 700kg if it has brakes on it or 400kg if it does not. Can't really say if the towball would support the weight, I imagine it'd be pretty close to the recommended limit though!

Posted 8 months ago #
TheBrick - Member

30lb = 13.6 kg
* 2 = 27. 2 kg

so with bike rack you will be over the 28 kg ball weight, but I wouldn't worry to much personally as long as the rack is not a monster of pig iron. You could always take off a front wheel(s) to redue the weight a little.

Posted 8 months ago #
igm - Member

30lbs x2 plus rack will be greater than the towball nose weight so I'd say no. But given that will be a safe working load with a safety factor you might get away with it (don't think I'd bother though).

Posted 8 months ago #
missingfrontallobe - Member

The 28kg refers to what is called noseweight in towing terms, in law the max "downforce" that the towball should be subject to. Can't see it would be a problem unless you have a bike rack made like the Forth Bridge & bikes to match. In theory the police could stop you & weigh everything but that is highly unlikely unless you load looked or was unsafe. It shouldn't be exceeded as the Type Approval will only be up to 28kg, and if you had an accident your insurers might look at the overloaded towball as a contributing factor.
Bikes on towbars only become a problem where a person expects to carry bikes & tow a heavy caravan too, and the cumulative weight of caravan hitch & bikes exceeds the towball weight.

Posted 8 months ago #
Mike_D - Member

Tow ball weight is the critical one. Just the bikes are going to be over the weight, and there's the rack on top. Personally I wouldn't.

Must be a very tiny car -- tow ball weights are usually 75-100kg even on middling cars.

Posted 8 months ago #
DickBarton - Member

Thanks for the advice folks...guess I need to see if the bike will fit inside then...bike carting duties are the only thing that would affect the size of the car - I much prefer carting the bike inside (safer/more fuel efficient), the car in question is a Kia Picanto - I don't do big miles and pretty much just need a 'city' car, I do less than 10k a year and this appears to be well equipped (for the price) and very cheap to run...so yes, it is a small car!

So as long as the bike fits inside then it looks like I've found my replacement vehicle as the towball isn't really practical.

Thanks.

Posted 8 months ago #
igm - Member

On a very small car, weight on the towball does make the front end feel lighter and the steering vaguer. Marginally. But effectively it is de-weighting the front end; this can be amusing on a wet day on a fast bend.

Posted 8 months ago #
stevewhyte - Member

Tow ball weight of 28kgs sounds incredibly low.

Is the towball extended 4m from the back of the car.

p.s. Unless its one of the new picantos i would give it a miss.

Posted 8 months ago #
oliverd1981 - Member

I looked at the nose weight for my Rav 4 when I was having my rack built and chose to ignore it (what's the point of a rack that won't take 3 DH bikes?). Having said that I'm not technically mounted on the tow "ball"

Posted 8 months ago #
b r - Member

For me the fact its limited to 28kg, on a 700kg trailer implies almost perfect loading - therefore its almost as though towing is not recommended at all for the car.

As an example, my BMW 5 series comes in at 90kg for a 2000kg trailer.

But I'd still be happy running a towbar rack on your car, just would be careful about ensuring the heavy bikes are closest to the car.

Posted 8 months ago #
igm - Member

28/700 is equivalent to 80/2000 by my reckoning so not that different to the BMW - just a (much) smaller car.

Posted 8 months ago #
fisha - Member

Are you sure you cant fit the bikes in the back? I can fit a large framed Kona Coiler in the back of the mini cooper with the seats down and the wheels off. I could probably fit 2 bikes in to be honest.

Posted 8 months ago #
DickBarton - Member

Yes, the new version. Not tried to fit bike in so need to try it but the space is much less than my current Bravo and that isn't exactly boasting loads of room when bike is in - plenty width but depth is pretty much length of frame and fork - large (18.5") Mount Vision...won't go in without both wheels off...so suspect Picanto will be very very tight.

Posted 8 months ago #
kayak23 - Member

Is uprating the rear shocks a possibility? Isn't it just like adjusting your sag?
I've been thinking about a towball rack on my fiesta but worry about it pulling wheelies.
You've always got roof mounted racks to consider too...

Posted 8 months ago #
tonyg2003 - Member

30kg is an incredibly low nose weight. 140kg on my car. Maybe think about getting something a little bigger than the picanto?

Posted 8 months ago #
takisawa2 - Member

Just carry the wheels in the boot.

Posted 8 months ago #
stevewhyte - Member

Just buy something like a Saris Bones RS, very good rack.

Posted 8 months ago #
jim_bob - Member

The towball weight assumes the weight will be right at the ball, I think. The height and reach of a bike rack mean you'd have quite a bit of the weight effectively at the end of a long lever.

I have a towbar rated for 65kg towball weight, and you can see it flex when you carry a couple of bikes on the rack. Nothing too alarming though.

Some racks allow/advise you to add a single strap from the top of the rack to the top of the tailgate. This cancels out some of the lever effect, but your case sounds like you will still be over the recommended weight.

Posted 8 months ago #
andyl - Member

If you are running 2 bikes on the back then you will probably have 2 of you up front in the car but it's still over the recommended weight. Maybe it is partly due to the fact it's removable?

I have an interesting problem that when I went from hatch back version of my car to the estate with the same engine I lost 200kg of max trailer weight putting me down to an irritating 1000kg. I think that is structural as the mountings are longer as there is not 200kg of weight extra between the body styles.

What about a roof rack? Seems silly to not use the tow bar if you have one but would get the weight right over the middle. Might hurt performance a lot though on a small car. The strap idea might be a good one too, you just need ratchet strap attached to a bobbin which you trap in the top of the boot lid - there is normally a nice gap between the lid and roof. You then tighten the ratchet strap around the top tubes and relieve the weight of the bikes. Would make it more secure too. Your risk though.

Posted 8 months ago #
Marge - Member

28kg nose weight.
That's incredible...
Could it be less useful?

Is the 'towbar' made of cheese & attached with sellotape?

Posted 8 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

28kg will allow you to tow a small trialer or trailer tent but not much else.

Issue with overloading it is if you have an accident - if you've been using a couple of bikes and the rack to, effectively, lift the front wheels off the ground a bit then the argument will be made that it's your fault (and it would be).

As for people 'choosing' to ignore nose weights?

*bites tongue and shakes head in a slightly dissapointed way*

Posted 8 months ago #
geordiemick00 - Member

the reason why a lot of small cars have incredibly small towing limits is a) the car normally has to be 20% heavier than the load and b) small cars like smart cars, Ka's, IQ's etc have a very short wheelbase and having a longer heavier trailer would make them incredibly unstable.

in keeping with other comments I find 28Kg nose weight unbelievable but I wouldn't exceed it, it's there for a reason. It may have some relevance to the structure of the chassis at the rear. If your car is short I doubt the tow bar has much leverage to the chassis and overloading the bar may force the floorpan/chassis to stress.

Posted 8 months ago #
Mike_D - Member

You can't even fit a towbar to a Ka

TBH I think the OP needs to look at a slightly larger car, as in "small" rather than "tiny". It's not like something in the Fiesta/207/Corsa arena will cost meellions of pounds to run.

Posted 8 months ago #
andyl - Member

what about a high boot mount rack?

I am guessing you have a single point electrics so you can get a lightboard to hang on the back.

It is still putting weight on the back of the car but I guess tow bar ones do stick out quite a bit and you would be looking at about 1/2m less leverage and less rack weight so you should be a smudge over 28kg but much further forward.

Posted 8 months ago #
DickBarton - Member

I'm not keen on rear mounted racks (had and seen too many accidents with them (thankfully none caused by me!))...roof rack is fine but not my preferred option...as long as the bike can fit in the back then it's the right size...I'm looking for tiny as it is simple a means to get (predominantly) me to work; me to collect daughter from childminder hen take us both home; me plus bike to go ride somewhere not local.

Going for a very small car like this seems to make sense to me...it has a few toys in it that the main brands don't have at this price point; it is cheap to insure and tax and seems to give ok fuel economy. Fiesta sized does this as well and is slightly bigger BUT it costs more to buy; have less toys (which I'll admit are simple a luxury but as I've got them now, I think I'd miss a few of them) and probably cost me a bit more to run/insure.

I'm thinking for going brand new as the warranty is very good - every car I've owned has needed warranty work (all 3 of them), so I'm not thinking the warranty is a luxury...my thought is own this for 4 years then get rid and see how things are placed then...I'd hope I had a bit more cash and therefore not see the car as simply something to get me from A to B.

I've no interest in badge snobbery so I've no issues looking at Kia's, etc. and from what I can tell, this one is better specced and appears to be cheaper to run than the competition - which is more important to me than carrying a bike just now (at a push I'm sure I could use the S-Max!)...

It's effectively a second car that gets used for a slightly longer school run...

Thanks very much for the advice...the 28Kg weight was what I suspected so has instantly ruled out a towball and rack...I'll give the bike a wash and then head up to the showroom at the weekend and see if the bike will fit inside.

Thanks.

Posted 8 months ago #
stevewhyte - Member

The new Kias seem very good, i should know i run a new sedona, and its a great car. The new Picanto looks like a great buy.

I also have a Clio (sedona is wifes)and i use a Saris Bones RS rack, its a seriously good piece of kit, and is every bit as secure as a tow ball rack. I know what you mean about most racks but Saris do it right.

Posted 8 months ago #
scottalej - Member

I saw a BMW 3 series touring the other day with an outboard motor for a boat mounted on a home made bracket on his towbar. The max nose weight for that car is about 75kg, the dry weight of the 70hp outboard is 180kg! The amount of flex in his towbar when he went over bumps was alarming especially at 70mph on the dual carriage way!
BMW drivers

Posted 8 months ago #

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