Just read the following on the BBC News website.

The government is due to publish the results of a consultation which proposes introducing tougher punishments for illegal mobile use by drivers.
The minimum fine for non-HGV drivers is expected to rise from £100 to £150, while penalty points are set to increase from three to four.

How lame is that. Should be a simple ban of 3 months for first offence and then increasing duration for subsequent offences.

How can anybody have faith in the system when they increase the punishment by such a pathetic measure.

I find it hard to get excited about the level of punishment when there is so little enforcement

Does it fail to mention that most offenders just choose to go on a crappy “What’s Driving Us?” course?

Punishment is irrelevant if no one is getting collared for it.

My recent experiences whilst commuting by bike.

1 – A lady pulled out of a side road and i rode at 25mph into side of her car, ended up on her bonnet and with my foot through her windscreen, surprisingly not too badly injured except for back and neck, she stood and admitted fault to the police and they have done nothing.

– A Transit van, tried to overtake me as i went around a temporary traffic light in the road, hit me with front nearside wing and pushed me into the lights and drove away having broken my frame and two of my ribs, witness in vehicle behind called Police, gave all his details and the registration number of the van. This was March 2016 and the Police haven’t even been to take a statement from the witness.

I have very little faith in the system at the moment. It seems they are only interested in the “quick hits” that don’t involve any work and will go straight to Court such as drink driving or driving with mobile.

Having been the victim of a cockbadger who was using his phone whilst driving, this saddens me but doesn’t surprise me at all. Until the government brings in reasonable penalties, (the enforced removal of at least one vital organ, for instance), people aren’t going to stop. It just leaves me baffled as to why people are apparently so desperate to spend every available opportunity with a mobile clamped to their ear.

Anything that raises awareness of how unacceptable it is is a start. But £50? Come off it.

I agree with the OP, although talking on the phone I think I’d be happy with the £150 4 points thing but texting/facebook/instagram should be an instant ban.

I find it hard to get excited about the level of punishment when there is so little enforcement

scud

My recent experiences whilst commuting by bike.

………

The idea that a driver will be texting or looking at facebook and just crush me has pretty much put me off riding on the roads now. I’ve seen two bus drivers looking at their phones while driving as well as a Tesco delivery driver not to mention a HGV driver reading a map and another writing on a notepad. All while the vehicles where moving.

Came across this last night. Why people do it:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c[/video]

They can make the panlty an instant ban and a £10,000 fine .

But .

Who is going to enforce the law ?

Police numbers are so low they can’t do much more than target known hotspots for drugs and violent conduct .

They have no personnel available to monitor the highways other than a few on the motorways.

The standards of driving are shocking but there is virtually no chance of getting caught at the moment .

I find it hard to get excited about the level of punishment when there is so little enforcement

+1 million

To be honest, the original penalty would likely be enough if it was enforced, the first time would likely make the majority stop doing it, and if you got caught 2 or 3 times in succession you’d be in the poop.

An unmarked/plain clothes bobby could likely walk or ride down the side of any traffic queue on any day in any town and catch a dozen people before rush hour is over.

Saw this on FB earlier but can’t remember how to link to the actual video 😳

facebook link

Does it include smoking too?

I find myself getting unbelievably angry with arseholes in Bristol who narrowly avoid crashing into me both when I’m in my car or my bike because they’re on their phone. One knob overtook me on my bike way too close in a merc the other day on his phone, cut me up and then reversed at speed into a parking space whilst there were kids everywhere walking to school. He was completely oblivious to me being there.

Not letting it bother me is tantamount to turning the other cheek and walking on by, so does anyone have any tips how to deal with these belters?

To be honest, the original penalty would likely be enough if it was enforced

Whats the enforcement worth if theres so little stigma from a conviction. The size of the fine and the number of points is irrelevant. Any other kind of conviction would need to be declared in all sorts of circumstances (job applications, applications for insurance or credit and so on – professionally I need to make declarations as part of tendering for public contracts) but in all those situations you’re pretty much expected not to include motoring offences in those declarations. The conviction is just something to moan about in the pub (in a manner thats really a boast) but to never otherwise have to face up to. You can pretty much keep the whole thing a secret if you want.

Its pretty much institutional and societal norm that convictions for selfish and careless behaviour are completely acceptable. More than acceptable – we’re happier to just not know than to know and make an assessment about it.

The penalty is therefore trivial, which makes the offence trivial. Whats the different between 3 trivial points and 4 trivial points. Whats the difference between a £100 trivial fine and a £150 trivial fine. Nothing.

Good that they’re increasing the penalties, but shame you can just plead hardship 8 times and be let off before doing it again and killing someone

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/texting-motorist-given-nine-years-prison-killing-cyclist-282429

I was reminded about this yesterday. Sat stationary in a commute jam on way into Glasgow, guy in car beside me, also stationary, presumably with handbrake on, has phone visibly in hand texting or on media. 2 Policemen walking along road stop, chap his window and give him a proper telling off for it. Looked like just a warning right enough, but a good reminder to folk…..

guy last night drove passed dicking about with his phone (I was waiting turn right onto the road he was on) I joined road and overtook him in heavy traffic, still messing with the phone. I said “Stop doing that and concentrate on driving” what do we think was the response?
A full and frank apology?
A sheepish “whoops, yeah, I should know better”?
Simply ignored me?
Or a mouthful of abuse?

go on take a guess.
I don’t get that. Pulling shady stuff when you know there’s little chance of getting caught, ok, but getting all arsey when called out, when you know you’re in the wrong?

Doesn’t seem much of an increase, I know it’s 50% increase in fine but 50% of a pretty paltry sum isn’t much. Points just don’t seem to work, especially when so many are still driving with >12 points. Instant short ban, a week or two on the naughty step, leave your car at the nearest police station, no real cost incurred but a shit load of inconvenience for your average drive everywhere punter. I reckon that would be more of an eye opener.

That and actually having some enforcement of course.

Pointless exercise making the penalty worse as no-one gets done now anyway. I know a few people who constantly use their phone while driving, it’s become the norm for loads of people! The sooner we get a campaign similar to the drink-driving ones to force the message through and make it socially unacceptable the better. A few tricks I use occasionally:

I have been known to snatch the phone out of their hands and chuck it in the back seat. Works best with convertibles.
Or if I’m in a car as a passenger and see someone in a works van with their phone number on the side when they’re texting/Fbooking is to ring it (with my number blocked) and yell at them.
Another trick is if they are stopped at a set of traffic lights is to wait behind them (on the bike) then press the boot release as they drive off, works really well on those cars with automatic lifting/lowering devices 😀

I may have done no.3 to someone in a low multistorey car park once, boot rubbed the ceiling for a while. I was on foot for that one.

maccruiskeen – member

Whats the enforcement worth if theres so little stigma from a conviction….more stuff

I tend to agree with you the more I think about it 🙁

I guess that’s kind of another issue though.

1 – enforcement
2 – penalty level
3 – social stigma

we’re only arguing about 1 and 2 because people (socially I mean) aren’t taking point 3 seriously. A massive run of enforcement, or a massive penalty (or both!) will hopefully start change that though with more public education and an actual will to make it unacceptable like they did with drink driving.

What I’d really like to see is a change to bans and short term seizing of vehicles.

Get caught using your phone, you lose your licence and your vehicle for three weeks. It’s an employers van? Tough. It’s your mates car? Tough. You need your car to get to work? Tough. There goes all of your annual leave because you’re a selfish idiot who can’t pay attention while driving.

Drive while banned = a 12 month ban with extended retest and/or prison.

No complaints that they’re using poor motorists (wah wah) as a cash cow by giving out fines.

For a second offence, studies have shown that “phone-driving” is as bad as drink driving, so why not treat it the same and give out mandatory 12 month bans?

Minimum of £500 fine and 4 points. £1000 and 6 points second offence within 3 years and 3 month ban following that. Follow that up with high profile blitzes outside schools, and places where traffic slows at lights in the morning etc and some hard hitting dead children videos on evening telly for a bit of parental/child leverage.

Regardless of enforcement and penalties (which I think are both inadequate) one of the big problems is that there is currently a general attitude that using a mobile is OK if you can get way with it, rather than something you just shouldn’t do. I think that’s reflected in the attitude of the police. They could easily book a lot of people to make examples of them, but it’s not a priority.

Drink driving was a bit like this a few years ago, but people’s attitudes have changed enormously.

There’s also good evidence that any mobile use by drivers is dangerous, but you will see lots of cyclists on this forum explaining how they are fine with their hands free sets.

All the cops have to do s stand at the side of the road at rush hour as traffic joins the back of the queue. They will see no end of people ( mainly women from my experience ) with their phones on their laps. They could dish out all the fines they would like. A good money spinner.
I have to cross a dual carriage way and the traffic is mainly doing 10 mph full of people face booking. It really **** me off and makes crossing the road bloody dangerous.

Follow that up with high profile blitzes outside schools, and places where traffic slows at lights in the morning etc

This exactly. Warning signs up for a couple of weeks (like they sometimes do with mobile speed cameras) then plain-clothed ‘spectators’ getting evidence (pictures/video) and an automatic big fine or, preferably, a ban.

What strikes me about this problem is that most of the cars people do it in have bluetooth. How hard is it to connect your phone to your car?

There’s also good evidence that any mobile use by drivers is dangerous, but you will see lots of cyclists on this forum explaining how they are fine with their hands free sets.

Agreed – govt should’ve had the balls to ban all in-car calls. Even if that means passengers too to make enforcement easier, tough shit

If they’d allow the police to actually keep some of the fine revenue they could easily recoup, even if they were all driving round in **** Bentleys never mind just holding a camera at a roadside

Does it fail to mention that most offenders just choose to go on a crappy “What’s Driving Us?” course?

They might be crappy but they have been shown to work.

The percentage of people who believe it is “acceptable” to take a call on their mobiles while driving has doubled from 7 per cent in 2014 to 14 per cent in 2016

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-in-five-people-use-mobile-phones-while-driving-rac-road-safety-a7309081.html

Further to my post further up. As i come out of Norwich riding home there is road that goes from 3 lanes, down to 2, then single lane and traffic always slow, you simply cannot ride down the left hand side as drivers give you no room and there is 7-8 drains all of which have sunk a good 2 inches. You are left with only being able to ride down the driver side of vehicles to make any progress. At the height of it’s popularity a few months ago, i could clearly see 6 cars out of the about 20 in the queue playing ****’ Pokemon!

One thing that must be a bit of a grey area though is when is a mobile phone or not? if you are making a call or on Facebook, clearly being mis-used, but i use my phone as my Sat-Nav? Difficult to Police?

7 years ago my wifes car was hit hard from behind by a c**t in a transit van who was on the phone.
The impact pushed her into the car infront and wrote off her car.
She was 10 weeks pregnant at the time, and started bleeding immediately after the crash.
2 weeks later she lost the baby – we’ve got no idea if the two are connected.

I hate people who drive whilst on the phone.. it needs to be 6 points and £1k for first offence, and a 6 month ban for the second.
If you’re driving a HGV you should loose your HGV entitlement for life.

I must remember to forward the photos I take of drivers using phones to the police, while I cycle past their cars using my Nexus 7 2013. 😆

A lot of people seem incredibly stupid and gullible. Take for example how often they circulate stupid memes, or like and share to win this house, or “Facebook I post notice that you cannot steal my blah blah blah”……so someone should just create a meme that Facebook is spying on you and is going to start reporting your movements to the police. If you check FB or post a message then mysteriously accelerate to 40mph FB will notify the cops. Worth a shot.

police have had 20% budget cuts in the last 6 years

In the five years from March 2010, police officer numbers declined by close to 12% – a loss of almost 17,000. The decline in the workforce was even greater, with a loss of 15,877 support staff and 4,587 police community support officers (PCSOs).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34899060

Thing is, using a mobile used to be legal and whilst it was obvious you weren’t concentrating 100%, it was reasonably safe. Now people are actually texting or checking FB or other stuff, which actually involves looking at the screen. Its just obvious that its an accident waiting to happen.

I met a Guy in a wheelchair last year who was cycling when a Van hit him right up the arse. Bloke was using his phone and this guy was ‘lucky’ to be alive. Poor guy was in a right mess.

Punishment s a touch irrelevant if its not enforced by why not shove at least 2 zeros on the fine and one on the number of years banned?
The money raised until people cotton on will pay for a few bobbies with cameras. Relax the requirements for nicking people as well would help eg any film of a phone being used by a driver in a moving vehicle where is can been seen to be on the highway.

Thing is, using a mobile used to be legal and whilst it was obvious you weren’t concentrating 100%, it was reasonably safe…

That’s a common misconception, and part of the problem being discussed here. There’s good research which demonstrates that just the act of having a phone conversation significantly impairs driving ability. It’s not the same as chatting to a passenger, and it doesn’t matter if you are on hands free.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9swS1Vl6Ok[/video]

Popped on my FB nonsense feed

Nearly there on the hard hitting front, but the majority of those kids will be on the phone whilst driving within 1 month

Who is going to enforce the law ?

Police numbers are so low they can’t do much more than target known hotspots for drugs and violent conduct .

They have no personnel available to monitor the highways other than a few on the motorways.

The standards of driving are shocking but there is virtually no chance of getting caught at the moment .

round here theyve handed the litter patrol enforcement,and dog fouling to a private company, zero tolerance and large fines,for offenders, and as the motorway police are being lined up for privatisation, or pfi, the sooner the better .

asfor lgv drivers on the phone at low speeds, shout loudly there seems to be a body under your vehicle, they soon put the phone down and block the traffic, to have a look. some are not happy, some are in a state of anger.

It’s the enforcement as much as the punishment, as others have said.

And I’ll say this again – stop pussyfooting about. We don’t need more laws passing. We need enforcement of the existing ones*. And no exceptions to a ban. The whole **** point is that it inconveniences you and may affect your job and family! Even if they make it a one month ban and your employer has to keep your job open for a first ban.

*I accept that this is a resource/priority issue.