I don't hate tories, I just don't want them anywhere near the reins of power again. The great shame is "New" Labour's attempts to become them 🙁

Will

Very traditional view from TJ up there. For those that can remember back to before '97 its about a feeling of mistrust and betrayel from successive Conservative Governments. And also the fear of going back to those days. Which is why Brown, for all his PR gaffs, is actually by far the lesser of two evils.

I do find it astonishing that there is a whole generation who have never been through one recession before, let alone 3 recessions in 10 years, and a Government that kept putting us back in recession, again and agian.

Andy

chameleon78

What a load of Pish – benefit levels are low in the Uk compared to other european countries and we have some of the toughest immigration controls in the world. Ignorant pish

Labour are the party of the working person, Tories of power and priviledge

I don't really have any loyalty to any, but I don't see this distinction or recognise it in current political stances, I just see multiple parties claiming different ways to the same end.

clegg just sits on the fence

Sorry dude but Clegg is the only one of the "big three" who is daring to be different. Uncle Grumpy seems to be short on ideas, apart from if it breathes, tax it and "CallMeDave" is trying to be all things to all men whilst George "Grima Wormtongue" O$bourne lurks in the shadows.

I agree with SFB, I don't want the tories near power again. What they did to Wales and Northern England was unforgivable.

Oh and the way the election dates fell, I was 23 but the time I got a chance to vote, so If you have a vote, use it, whoever you vote for.

coffeeking – Member

"Labour are the party of the working person, Tories of power and priviledge "

I don't really have any loyalty to any, but I don't see this distinction or recognise it in current political stances,

Working families tax credits, minimum wage – two labour policies that help the poorer person.

Removal of inheritance tax and reduction in NI – two tory policies that help the richer person.

Only the top 3% pay the inheritance tax.

Don't be fooled – the tory party are all about entrenching power and privilege

vote plaid cymru and get policies you cant understand

I laugh at Clegg, he has nothing to lose so can suggest what he likes. Knowing that his and the liberals are the Anti labour/anti tory vote so their policies dont actually mean anything, they know their policies dont need to stand up to scrutiny. In a way at least Dave has more credibility as he at least goes back to the Tory cut spending usual style! Clegg is the worst of the worst. Sensing opportunity, and choosing policies to suit.

Mindyou, I live in Theresa May's constituancy so hell, I postal voted liberal as an anti tory vote.

Working families tax credits, minimum wage – two labour policies that help the poorer person.

Yes, so Labour have come up with some good policies, I've not argued that.

Removal of inheritance tax and reduction in NI – two tory policies that help the richer person.

They don't affect the poorer though, and they actually effect plenty of middle-income people whos parents/family have worked hard to save and help their kids.

I'm not fooled, I just don't think I agree with the labour perspective either and I won't rely on headlines, personal grievances and decade-old history to decide on pick the policies for the future.

Coffeeking – my point is that labour still are the party of the pooer and tories of the rich – and you have been fooled – inheritance tax is only paid by the richest 3% of people- tory tax cust will affect poorer people as the services they use will be cut to pay for the tax cuts.

Coffeeking – my point is that labour still are the party of the pooer and tories of the rich – and you have been fooled – inheritance tax is only paid by the richest 3% of people- tory tax cust will affect poorer people as the services they use will be cut to pay for the tax cuts.

I think your point is wrong. You're entitled to your view though.

sometimes i lie awake at night dreaming of being worried about inheritance tax

Don't worry, it was a tory tax that was brought in a while ago and now it's affecting more middle-class people due to improving house prices they decided to shift the bar upward to maintain its effect and not penalise the "lower classes" – apparently labour don't like that, being for the people 'n' all.

jonah tonto – Member

vote plaid cymru and get policies you cant understand

And yet Plaid Cymru for the last 5 years, has been the only party with any sensible policies in Westminster.
How difficult can it be to understand common-sense ?

.

Why do people hate conservatives?

I hate New Labour more 😀

At least David Cameron had the decency not to join the Labour Party…..

i was only joking about plaid…. its a variation on the tafia joke about the sheeps head and an offer you cant understand. (i speak quite abit o welsh in reality anyway) i like em . they rock .

Billboard graffiti – yep all for that, fair game & the chance to answer back etc
Trouble with politicians is that instead of standing for what they believe in & asking for our votes, they now research what will get our votes & then say they stand for whatever that maybe….

I think you have to remember what both Labour *and* the middle-of-the-road Conservatives had managed to do to this country up until 1979 to see why Mrs Thatcher did what she did.

Only five years earlier, in 1974, the National Union of Mineworkers effectively forced out Ted Heath's elected government.

British Leyland were almost perpetually on strike for one reason or another; it was a wonder they produced any cars at all, they were so busy destroying themselves.

"Managed decline" was the phrase that the civil service used at the time. Our GDP had been overtaken by that of East Germany (*), and really all we could hope for was to gracefully crumble into ruin and irrelevance.

Of course there is much to criticise in what happened after 1979. Perhaps the biggest mistake was the doctrinal adherence to using money supply figures to determine interest rates, driving them far too high, with the consequences that TJ and others have alluded to.

Now, where did I put that flame proof suit?

(*) Of course, they were faking the figures.

Removal of inheritance tax and reduction in NI – two tory policies that help the richer person.

They don't affect the poorer though, and they actually effect plenty of middle-income people whos parents/family have worked hard to save and help their kids.

Middle income people are able to leave over 1 million pounds in their wills …you really think this? As TJ said top 3% of earners affecte dby Daves change. So we are skint and in the financial sh1t lets give a tax break to the richest 3%. Does this seem reasonable and prudent to you?.

Dave and half his cronies are eton educated millionaires – they are the party of wealth and privledge [as are Laboutr increasingly these days]. Tory policies are largely directed at enterprise and business. The Tories try to help out business via a smaller state assuming that this will make us wealthier.Labour try to help the poor out via the state and legislation -minimum wage, family tax credit etc.
So who do you trust more to help you a business/capitalism or the government?

Trouble with politicians is that instead of standing for what they believe in & asking for our votes, they now research what will get our votes & then say they stand for whatever that maybe….

so.. effectively.. the system is more democratic now?

or would be if they weren't all a bunch of compulsively lying self serving power hungry rich kids..
I think that you'll find the research you're speaking of is research to discover the most believable and seductive lies..

Top 3% pay inheritance tax

Hmmm well when my Gran died she did so she was in the top 3% of wealthy people? She didn't look rich and her house wasn't that great either – a bungalow in Derbyshire.

I don't think this is the time to talk about cutting taxes like that though.

Who ever gets into power is going to have to cut spending significantly as we were over spending even before the current problems.

The Tories try to help out business via a smaller state assuming that this will make us wealthier.Labour try to help the poor out via the state and legislation -minimum wage, family tax credit etc.

And by default a bigger state. I think what you have said pretty much sums up the two idealogies quite well. Personally I don't believe any government can effectively control expenditure in a large state, not from what I've seen anyway, sod rather support the small state model. Unfortunately I think CallMeDave is actually in a policy vacuum so won't be getting my vote. Labour have proved once again they can't be trusted with our money so for me it's the Lib-Dems turn (although I will be voting for them with some misgivings, I'm a tad worried that Clegg is just a new CallMeDave 🙄 )

Tiger

Last year, 15,000 estates (about 3 per cent of the 580,000 deaths in the year) were liable for the levy.

Obviously a bit more complex
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/2010/05/02/would-1m-inheritance-tax-threshold-give-200000-the-3000-richest/

Let's vote labour and keep the lower class sun readers at home on a tidy benefit because they don't want to work, why would they if they get handouts for nowt?
Vote labour because no change is good right?

None of the parties have commented on immigration, keep the feckers out.

This country is fecked and although I don't think any of the parties are particularly great dave will be getting my vote. Gordon is a tw@ and I can't stand the man and clegg just sits on the fence.

Not very constructive reasons but so what.

This, children, is why you should never vote Tory…. 🙁

But that hasn't got much to do with the Tories has it?!

🙄

Erm, it has, actually, if you think hard about it…

But he's already says he doesn't like any of the parties therefore the Tories don't give him what he wants – he thinks Labour him the worst option though so the best you can say is that is why you should vote Labour rather than note vote Tory.

Middle income people are able to leave over 1 million pounds in their wills …you really think this? As TJ said top 3% of earners affecte dby Daves change. So we are skint and in the financial sh1t lets give a tax break to the richest 3%. Does this seem reasonable and prudent to you?.

No, that's not what I said. I said currently (with it at 325K IIRC) it affects middle-class families (especially those down south who have been dragged into having to pay a fortune for a house), back when it was introduced 325K was probably worth (real-world) the same value as 1m today, not having it tracking earnings and house prices is effectively slowly but surely stealth-taxing to increasing levels those lower and lower in the income range. If it were a Labour policy it woudl be being hailed as trying to help out Browns middle class and helping social mobility, but it's not, so it's not. This is what I don't like about the way people stick to peoples loyalty to parties – they skew everything to how they viewed previous parties – rather than assessing them on their merits at the time.

Coffeeking – if you are a couple you get two lots of the 325 ( going up to 350 this year)

If you read the link I gave above only the 3% of richest people currently pay inheritance tax

sorry – you have bought into the tory lies on this one. Read the link I provided a bit above

If I were to peg it today then I'd be above the current inheritance tax threshold (house + savings). Don't feel like I'm in the "top 3% of richest" though 😡

its the richest 3% dying not the richest 3% living

allthepies – you have assets worth £700 000? or half that as a single person?

tj – yes (house by far the largest factor here)

OK then…

Let's vote labour and keep the lower class sun readers at home on a tidy benefit because they don't want to work, why would they if they get handouts for nowt?

Very disparaging and prejudiced view of the 'lower classes' – pure Thatcherite Us and Them ideology.

Virtually every benefit claimant in the UK are perfectly legitimate, deserving and legally entitled to benefits. This includes the unemployed, the sick, those on very low incomes, those with sick/disabled relatives to care for, etc. To view all of these people as 'benefit cheats' smacks of Tory Divide and Rule policies; get everyone hating and mistrusting each other. Use the media to fan the flames of prejudice.

None of the parties have commented on immigration, keep the feckers out.

While that is particularly narrow-minded and possibly xenophobic, it shows how the myth of immigration is being manipulated to score political points; Contrary to media Hysteria, Britain does not have a 'huge problem' with immigration. In fact, immigration controls have tightened up considerably, under New Labour…

This country is fecked

It is far from 'fecked'. People in this country currently enjoy a higher standard of living than ever before; levels of disposable income are at their highest, we possess more material goods than ever before. iPod iPhone laptop coffee machine 52" plasma TV big car loft extension etc etc etc…. Health and education have improved. We have a Minimum Wage. Increased social mobiity. Levels of affluence our grandparents could only ever dream about.

What is fecked, is society. Increased fear and paranoia, increasing mistrust and xenophobia, an increased need to blame 'someone else' for life's ills. People no longer know or speak to their neighbours, chat to each other on the bus/train, have each others' kids in and out of the house playing, help out someone when they're in a bad place. Increased selfishness, greed, and the MeMeMe culture.

And, who do we blame for that, brothers and sisters?

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

So atp might not be in the top 3% of alive people – what are the bands?

Well you are rich then allthepies

>Well you are rich then allthepies

Cool! And I'm not even a 40% taxpayer 🙂

Talkemada – all the parties want to get the unemployed working and are talking about withholding benefits from those that won't take employement when offered. As far as this country being fekked well no it isn't but some serious cash flow problems need to be sorted and they are all talking about reducing the gap between income and expenditure by around £50bn which means huge changes to the services people get now – tax will go up but not by anywhere near enough to keep services close to where they are.

Coffeeking – if you are a couple you get two lots of the 325 ( going up to 350 this year)

And if you're not a couple?

If you read the link I gave above only the 3% of richest people currently pay inheritance tax

I'm aware of that statistic, but I'm also aware of a fair few people liable for it due to property ownership (small but well located family homes now owned by one person). That doesn't make them rich as they have virtually no liquidity without selling the property and moving away from their home town/village/job.

sorry – you have bought into the tory lies on this one. Read the link I provided a bit above

I haven't bought into anything, try not to be patronising – I know it's hard for you.

Well you are rich then allthepies

Well of course most of us are when talking globally but 'rich' doesn't really mean much as it hasn't got a simple definition.

I think the idea of a millionaire has defined what rich is to most over the years though I don't think a millionaire is necessarily deemed rich these days if talking about all assets – I mean he'll still have to work for a living which wasn't the case years ago when a million was serious wodge.

all the parties want to get the unemployed working and are talking about withholding benefits from those that won't take employement when offered

Where are the jobs? How do the Tories propose to create the 2 million or so jobs that are needed?

In certain areas of the UK, there is increasing mass-unemployment as the recession kicks in, and companies pull the plug. Cadburys, recently, is a perfect example. Bought up by Kraft, promised to secure jobs- within a few weeks, they were closing a factory. This is happening all across Britain, and it's not just gordon Brown's fault, it's a Global recession.

A recession that the UK particularly wasn't well prepared for. Massive levels of debt, mainly due to easy credit (who deregulated the banks in the 80s, I wonder…?), and economic unsustainability. Nowt in the pot for a rainy day. People too eager to get that 52" plasma TV, without wondering how they were going to pay the mortgage if their job went down the pan. Short-term gain at the expense of long-term forethought. That's the Tory way.

It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour.

But, only if we've sorted ourselves out properly, of course… oh look, some more needless tat we can waste our money on!

People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

How are they to meet that obligation, if they don't have the means to do so?