Ernie – ernie?

Sooty and Jim – there is a big difference between reporting the failings of the government and making up stories to provide propaganda – try reading the mail to see what I mean.

Coffeeking – fair point but neither Heseltine nor John Smith could be considered extreme – two of the best prime ministers we have never had

We get what we deserve, I spent an evening listening to Tony Benn

You must have been very, very bad to deserve that. 😉

"try reading the mail to see what I mean".
PMSL

We offer the politicians no respect, so why do we keep expecting them to inspire us?

We get what we deserve, I spent an evening listening to Tony Benn a couple of years ago and he was (and is) a committed politician of integrity

People like that don't tend to get into positions of power as they don't play the game of party politics unlike slimeballs like Mandelson and Cameron.

Camerons lies – many off them

taxes can be cut without harming frontline services

Efficiency savingas are there to be made in the public sector with harm to services

The NHS is safe with us

Etc etc.

He is a man of little integrity Politician lite indeed

We offer the politicians no respect, so why do we keep expecting them to inspire us?

You earn respect, you don't get it automatically.

TJ – all of those things are possible if done correctly, it's just they rarely are. (and no necessarily the politicians fault)

…..try reading the mail to see what I mean.

I'd rather not.

……virtually all the papers….

Though it seems I may not have much choice if the Daily Mail is now 'virtually all the papers'.

🙄

"Taxes can be cut without harming frontline services"

Hmm. OK – well, you don't cut frontline staff, you cut middle-management and introduce better systems and smarter working (standard business practice where beaurocracy has replaced efficiency).

"Efficiency savingas are there to be made in the public sector with harm to services"

Is this a mis-type? It doesn't make sense?

"The NHS is safe with us"

Why would it not be? It certainly couldn't be much worse than under the current lot of incompetents?

Why would it not be? It certainly couldn't be much worse

See that's another example of Daily Mail style nonsense. The NHS has it's problems but generally speaking the care/service is pretty good.

So are the reports of long waiting lists, dirty hospitals and financial waste incorrect?

Plagiarising part of an old Kinnock speech

If you elect David [Dave] Cameron's party at the next election

– I warn you not to be ordinary

– I warn you not to be young

– I warn you not to fall ill

– I warn you not to get old.

So are the reports of long waiting lists, dirty hospitals and financial waste incorrect?

Not necessarily but that doesn't mean they are the norm. Instead of reading isolated cases that highlight the negative aspects, look at the overall picture, eg

The 5th annual edition of the Euro Health Consumer Index (EHCI), compiled from a combination of public statistics, patient polls and independent research, has been published.

The EHCI is a measurement standard for European healthcare ranking 33 national European healthcare systems across 38 indicators of quality, grouped into six categories of importance to the health consumer: patients rights and information; e-Health; waiting times for treatment; treatment outcomes; range and reach of services provided; and access to medication. Each sub-discipline is weighted for importance to provide the overall Index score. The individual category leaders were as follows:

• Patient rights and information: Denmark

• e-Health: Denmark, Netherlands

• Waiting time for treatment: Albania, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland

• Outcomes: Sweden

• Range and reach of services provided: Belgium, Luxembourg, Sweden

• Pharmaceuticals: Denmark, Netherlands

The NHS came 14th on the Index, with a score of 682 out of a possible 1000 and performed badly on waiting times, but well on equity of care.

http://www.nelm-web.lbi.co.uk/en/NeLM-Area/News/2009—October/01/Euro-Health-Consumer-Index-Report-2009-UK-ranked-14th-out-of-33-national-healthcare-systems/

So not brilliant, but far from the disaster you would think it was if you believe what you read in the Daily Mail.

barnsleymitch – Member

Does anyone else think that the post title sounds a bit 'tomorrow belongs to me'?.

Absolutely !

Lanesra get a roll of bog paper and knock one out ……….. superb quality with subtitles, enjoy :

The Leader gives hope to a nation

Always had him plugged as a socialist (national, of course). Just off to grass him up to searchlight.

I meant Lanesra of course, not those smartly dressed young men in the link.

– I warn you not to be ordinary

– I warn you not to be young

– I warn you not to fall ill

– I warn you not to get old.

I'm not ordinary, I'm not young, or going to get old in that time and I have no intention of getting ill but I'll take my chances on that 😆

See that's another example of Daily Mail style nonsense.

I'm getting increasingly tired of the constant newspaper references on this site. Not everyone reads a paper, not everyone uses a single source of info for their comments, most people are capable of seeing the predjudices and biases with certain papers and taking a rational viewpoint based on info from all sources. Anyone jumping to slag one person off as following one paper is clearly not looking at it with an open mind, they're simply following the bandwagon of pidgeonholing people who don't follow their thought process.

If I were in the Government this week I'd be feeling pretty secure. Dave and George seem to be on a quest to make themselves universally repulsed by the population.

Ultimately it's not them I'm worried about though, it's who's controlling them that's the problem….

I'm getting increasingly tired of the constant newspaper references on this site. Not everyone reads a paper, not everyone uses a single source of info for their comments, most people are capable of seeing the predjudices and biases with certain papers and taking a rational viewpoint based on info from all sources.

Well when people come out with baseless cliches that could have been lifted straight from a Daily Mail editorial, you can't really complain when people point out the similarity.

Eg

I think possibly as opposed to most of the teachers you see these days who wont/cant say boo to a goose. I presume it's intended to be combined with the reduction in political correctness that they mention (i.e. discipline will return, rather than kids running the schools – a good thing IMO, within reason).

I wish everyone would STFU about the daily bloody mail. I'm sure no one here reads the sh1t and anyway it's pretty much equally as terrible as the Guardian and that monbiot scumbag.

If no-one on here reads the Mail then where do they get this nonsense from?

Dave and George seem to be on a quest to make themselves universally repulsed by the population.

I dont think I've seen anything that has repulsed me from Dave, or anyone I work with.

If no-one on here reads the Mail then where do they get this nonsense from?

Usually a combination of sources, as I said above. Several papers, TV channels, internet resources. Very little else joe public can go on.

Hmm. OK – well, you don't cut frontline staff, you cut middle-management and introduce better systems and smarter working (standard business practice where beaurocracy has replaced efficiency).

Yeah, because the original Conservative reforms creating the internal market, widespread use of tendering, privatisation etc., taking supposedly more efficient private business practices and applying them to the public sector worked really well, and aren't the direct cause of the current problems. Oh and the more recent New Labour reforms to the NHS, taking (guess what) supposedly more efficient private sector management and measurement practices and applying them to the public sector, they were great in terms of reducing red tape and bureaucracy.

If it was as simple as you're describing, it'd have been done years ago. If it was really 'standard business practice', we wouldn't have exactly the same practices and worse in most large companies, and there'd actually be some real evidence that private sector working methods are more efficient than those in the public sector. We wouldn't have exactly the same culture of obsessive micro-management and stupid targets that people can game in the biggest companies (look at the bank bonus culture for an obvious example).

Joe

If I were in the Government this week I'd be feeling pretty secure. Dave and George seem to be on a quest to make themselves universally repulsed by the population.

What's sad is that the way they're making themselves unpopular is by pointing out that the future (whoever gets in) will not be a bed of roses… and that people then prefer to believe that Gordon Brown is a responsible, trustworthy steward of the economy and that he can make it okay without hurting.

"Yeah, because the original Conservative reforms creating the internal market, widespread use of tendering, privatisation etc., taking supposedly more efficient private business practices and applying them to the public sector worked really well, and aren't the direct cause of the current problems. Oh and the more recent New Labour reforms to the NHS, taking (guess what) supposedly more efficient private sector management and measurement practices and applying them to the public sector, they were great in terms of reducing red tape and bureaucracy."

So, according to grumm's analysis, they worked, then…

"If it was as simple as you're describing, it'd have been done years ago."

Isn't that a contradiction of the previous paragraph?

I watched callmeDave – I thought the lectern was a mistake, his previous "freestage" efforts looked and sounded a lot more convincing. Also the speech seemed to be a lot of obviously joined-up trigger phrases. He bungled the last section badly and the choice of some covers band knocking out "I'm a believer" just made want to shrivel up…

However, I found much of the content persuasive. What does concern me is what may be hidden, but I suppose we'll hear about the detail further on down the road.

For instance, Michael Gove got a mention re: education policy. Sounded fine and dandy on the surface, but I suspect that they are going to let rip on "faith" schools – a prospect I find frankly, dire…

What I really want to know is where have all the political giants gone? People of substance with ethics and morals, with principles they are prepared to stand by? People with intelligence and nous?

Democracy. You see that's the ultimate problem with democracy, such people are essentially unelectable (or at least wouldn't do as well as those without such qualities who're better at looking good – I mean almost anybody could probably lead the Torys to an election victory against Brown).

Of course we only have the semblance of democracy in this country, given the amount of power currently wielded by somebody unelected, and the chances that after the next election Dave won't be the one with the real power either.

"and the chances that after the next election Dave won't be the one with the real power either. "

No, not if he takes up Mandy's offer… 😈

I suspect that they are going to let rip on "faith" schools

Yep. 🙂

It'll be much like the last decade you know. The economy will be different, the mood music will be different. But basically there will be a tolerably competent centrist government governing a country with an overwhelming consensus on the correct nature of the state and governent. There will be tinkerings with the NHS that are claimed to be radical, there will be minute and very annoying annual adjustments to the tax system. Vast amounts of "red tape" will be identified but never actually got rid of entirely, the army will never have quite enough money, babies will occasionally be killed by crackheads, ministers will occasionally do slightly dubious things involving expenses claims and everything will be basically alright.

There is no immediate need to stock up on tinned food and guns. 🙂

For instance, Michael Gove got a mention re: education policy. Sounded fine and dandy on the surface, but I suspect that they are going to let rip on "faith" schools – a prospect I find frankly, dire…

Why would that be dire?

Why would that be dire?

Well, imagine if the faith schools were all to be suicide-bomber promoting madrassas

Or kiddy-fiddling catholic seminaries

or polygamy-promoting, child abusing Mormon schools

You've not thought your religion through, have you?

I did like the way Grumm killed the NHS side of this thread stone dead with one mighty post Very good.

I haven't seen the full speech, so can anyone tell me, did he actually commit to any real substantial policies or give any detail of how he'll implement his buzzwords? Apart from the plan to cut spending and prolong the recession, 1937 style, that is. I found a link on the Telegraph saying that he answered "all the questions" but then I read the article and they avoided asking any. Where will he actually lead us on Europe? Or did he forget to mention that again?

F uck the Tories they F ucked everyone
Still the tail end of there mess

did he actually commit to any real substantial policies or give any detail of how he'll implement his buzzwords?

No, they never do, I don't believe they have any actual policies

In the past they've been partial to very high interest rates so maybe they'll do that again, who knows?
To be far to Dave, I don't think he's actually been told what his policies are yet

**** the Tories they ****** everyone
Still the tail end of there mess

How do you figure that? Labour in power for over a decade and the world changing a great deal over the same time – and it's still the Tories fault? Nonsense.

Why would that be dire?

Well, imagine if the faith schools were all to be suicide-bomber promoting madrassas

Or kiddy-fiddling catholic seminaries

or polygamy-promoting, child abusing Mormon schools

You've not thought your religion through, have you?

eh? I am against faith schools. I am also an Atheist so "my religion" doesnt come into it really, does it?
Have you considered that or had you saved that little rant up for so long you are not really concerned?

The promotion of "Intelligent Design" and other nonsenses with the winding back of teaching Science. Also, it just extends the indictrination of children into dogma, which is a form of child abuse, but perhaps I'm risking re-opening a dead thread…

BigDummy – I've had to report your last post to the mods. It's absolutely spot on and as such has no place on STW.

Policies announced