Sorry sire!
<dof's hat and walks out backwards grateful that the laird of the land has still allowed him to breathe>

Dump the subsidies to arms makers. Extra 2% income tax for graduates making over 35k to cover education. Extra tax on beer/cider/wine and especially superstrength. Better management of sick leave in the public sector and better management of the underlying causes. Tax on aviation fuel. Phase out MS Office products in the public sector in favour of open source equivalents. Terminate the monarchy and nationalise their assets. Cancel any government involvement with or contribution to the Olympics, FIFA or any more bloody bids for spurious sports competitions that cost a ton and are nothing but tax-funded PR opportunities for politician ****. Introduce luxury car tax. Introduce stamp duty on transfer of used cars. Close UK military bases on Germany and Cyprus, and relocate them to Sth Wales near the M4, rail and sea links.

and why isnt international aid being cut . surely look after yourself then others

Spend aid – reduce political instability – increase returns on UK investment overseas – reduce refugee movement – reduce conflict which is bad for business and expensive on defence spending – stimulate economic growth – have them buy British stuff or stuff owned by British companies. Managing investment overseas is a huge British industry, much more than for most other EU economies.

rent houses and flats etc off private landlords and pay them approximately double the market value,

Double the market value for what?

I don't agree with everything you say Mr Bunny, but quality rantage!

have them buy British stuff or stuff owned by British companies.

When the government do that it's 'international aid', when BAE do it, it's bribery 🙂

Extra 2% income tax for graduates making over 35k to cover education

Don't agree on that one. People coming out of Uni with more and more debt then being faced with extra 'costs' if they do manage to work hard and make it.

Smoking isn't really a pleasure is it? it's something you do becuase you (think) you're addicted – so no, I don't buy that at all.

Really? You want to try it. There's only a few things better than a good nicotine buzz from that first cigarette of the day.

Well – a budget of two halves I guess. We don't know the full extent of the damage to the public sector yet but I personally will be significantly worse off. Thats on well less that the average wage and Its going to cost me

When the government do that it's 'international aid', when BAE do it, it's bribery

Lots of aid is tied, unfortunately. But BAe's bribery is absolutely against British interests: it increases political instability, makes those economies less fruitful markets for British investors, reduces economic growth in those markets, and increases marginalisation and political instability, which undermines the UK's security interests abroad.

I missed out a point: the UK is completely failing to deliver on its 20 year old OECD commitment to prosecute British companies and residents for bribery of foreign officials. The US and Germany have successfully extracted hundreds of millions of dollars of fines. There's a 2 birds with 1 stone opportunity here (3 if it leads to the end of the dolescum arms industry).

People coming out of Uni with more and more debt then being faced with extra 'costs' if they do manage to work hard and make it.

Meh – I have mixed feelings about that one too.

Really? You want to try it. There's only a few things better than a good nicotine buzz from that first cigarette of the day.

I used to smoke, then I quit quite a few years back when I reaslised how stoopid it was. If you need that buzz to get you going in the moring, then that's even more reason to quit.

Having done the sums, it looks like somehow we are going to be better off. Hmmm.

Having done the sums, it looks like somehow we are going to be better off. Hmmm.

Are you sure? are you including all those indirect taxes?

Given the limited information that we have available to us yes it looks like we will be marginally better off.

That will however change when i try and get a job in the nhs in 3yrs time…

Better off? Even including the VAT rise?

Yip. Apparently so.

Some of us survive on not a lot of cash.

I wonder when people will actually wake up to the fact that you basically get what you pay for more or less. So Tax cuts = you not paying for owt, thus no services. Good health, education, public services etc etc = a bill that has to be paid.

What would really interest me now would be a breakdown of how and from where the £700bn odd of debt has been accrued. At the end of the day that is really the important issue. Most of us would never countenance a huge Credit Card bill, but would happily borrow a vast amount to buy a house. So what its for and what we got in return is a very significant issue, which is basically being swept under the carpet as far as I can tell.

The usual sceanrio when cuts are in the offing, are that we're all 100% in favour as long as it doesn't effect us. I'm pretty sure that what you are now seeing are cuts that will seriously effect all of us and I'd like to know why, factually and without party political bias getting in the way.

As stated above I'm not 100%, but I am pretty sure the Osborne did refer to the lack of essential investment by the government of the early 90's being a factor, but I suspect that a large proportion is down to the world economic crisis which is not solely our nations respoonsibility albeit we have to accept that our nations greed has played its part.

anyone know whent the public sector pay freeze begins?

i'm due for a pay rise in 5 weeks time y'see

Just buy less. I know I am. My used bike purchases dont attract VAT Though 8)

but I personally will be significantly worse off. Thats on well less that the average wage and Its going to cost me

TJ, you claim to earn "less than £25,000", but Im guessing not much less than otherwise you would have used a lower number.

2009 ASHE http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_labour/ASHE-2009/2009_all_employees.pdf report has median annual income at £21.3k and mean annual income at £26.5k, so you're not really "well less than average" regardless of the average you want to use.

as a basic rate tax payer you will benefit by £170 from the increase in personal allowance. As a public sector employee on more than £21k you will have pay freeze – just like everyone else in the private sector I should imagine. Im assuming (based on your prolific historical posting) that children's, disability, investment and housing benefit policies dont apply to you.

the VAT rise will cost the average taxpayer about £150 a year.

So out of interest, just where is this budget going to leave you "significantly worse off"?

Yossarian, due for a payrise or going up an increment? If the latter it shouldn't be affected, think the former is next April

as a basic rate tax payer you will benefit by £170

the VAT rise will cost the average taxpayer about £150 a year

It's when I see the figures like this that I always think 'meh' when looking at the effects of tax rises/reductions.

A year or so ago, the local Tories and Labour parties were arguing over two different Council tax increases. The actual difference that the two rises mean't to us? About 50p a week.

This year, the local Labour group went for a 0% increase in Council Tax. A 2% increase would have cost us 50p a week, yet done a lot of good locally.

I know that I'm in a fortunate position to be able to cope with these changes, but still…

Stonor – He won't be able to moan about those thick Tories which will make him considerably worse off – or is that wishful thinking

Tj's a part timer though?

It's when I see the figures like this that I always think 'meh' when looking at the effects of tax rises/reductions.

I whole-heartedly agree mike.

Its the hyperbole from both sides about the scale of impact of changes of taxation that annoys. The bigger picture is the cumulative effect on the macroeconomy that matters most.

Yossarian, due for a payrise or going up an increment? If the latter it shouldn't be affected, think the former is next April

cheers, its incremental but I'm also negociating a change of contract at present so useful to know whether further increments will be preserved…

Tj's a part timer though?

not on here he's not 🙂

Yeah, but they put VAT up in January, but don't change the personal allowance until April, that should bring them 3-4 months of extra revenue where we will all be genuinely worse off.

I do enjoy the posts proclaiming the huge divide in motivation, efficiency and conditions between the public and private sector. I've worked in both and saw by far the greatest waste when working for Tesco.

The VAT increase will effectively be 5% in year.

that should bring them 3-4 months of extra revenue where we will all be genuinely worse off.

Yeah but them is us right?

Yoss: OK, that made me lol. But TJ's a good guy.

the local Tories and Labour parties were arguing over two different Council tax increases. The actual difference that the two rises mean't to us? About 50p a week.

Friend (acquaintance, really, I suppose, nice guy though) is a lobbyist in Washington. He told me that before 9/11, the big political debate was between fiscal conservatism and tax-and-spend liberalism. The total amount involved in contention? Within the margin of error for the budget. Of course, since then, public debt has ballooned, there and here…

Yeah, but they put VAT up in January, but don't change the personal allowance until April, that should bring them 3-4 months of extra revenue where we will all be genuinely worse off.

The average tax payer will be £50 worse off over those 4 months. That's, what, 40p a day?

Besides, as tiger_roach says, that's 4 months of increased government revenue, so they can reduce the deficit, cut borrowing or replace an old person's hip or something.

Stoner – I only work part time. so the sums are odd. Hourly rate would give me £25 000 pa if full time so no pay rise but actual earnings from two part time jobs is about half that

However I did miss the impact of the rise in allowances so it won't be as bad as I thought. It will be basically just the extra Vat I will pay so substantially worse off is wrong

And for balance TJ, I reckon that the impact on me is:

Income Tax – no change as a higher rate payer
CGT – notional tax liability on investments increased by, say, £5k ish
VAT – as a higher volume consumer I expect the VAT will cost me somewhere between £200 and £250 a year.
My corporate tax will be cut by 3% so that will save me about £1k I spose

Who'd have thunk it? The first redistributive budget in 14 years! 😉

Better a pay freeze than a job loss. I suspect any moaners will be noted down and slung out at the earliest opportunity.

But a 25% reduction in spending in the public sector means job losses in both public and private sector jobs, so pay freeze followed by job losses.

Add to that a private sector not able to absorb the the current unemployed, where are the jobs going to come from to replace those that are going to be lost?

If yu want to have notional tax on investments mine is substantial. Won't be paid for a decade yet tho

any calculators out there to try and work out whats what?

TJ – on the extra info you've given then, you will bear less than the full estimated £150 extra VAT cost of an average tax payer but will benefit from the full £170 increase in disposable income that the move in allowances gives you, and I assume will be elgible for a public sector pay rise in the coming years. Trebles all round for the proles I say! 😉

Dont tell me you're actually a rentier are you TJ?

How very bourgeois of you.

Prole – what with my accent!

I am petit bourgeoisie thru and thru

Heres a thought – the zero public sector pay rise – does that apply in scotland?
NHS pay rates are set UK wide but councils and schools?