Good question CynicAl. It has less to do with power to weight (although there will still be marginal gains on a flat TT though also bear in mind that my local course is not entirely flat. It has 220m of elevation) and more to do with aerobic efficiency. I’m not the expert of course but the lab explained that fatty tissue still requires oxygen. If your VO2 max is fixed (and it mostly is and mine is actually quite low at 44) then the amount of oxygen per kilo of body mass you can utilise will go up if you reduce weight. And if that comes from fatty tissue then you’ll do that without losing power.

Good effort

My one and only shot at a 25 was 59.49 – glamis- coupar angus- glamis .

Every single minute was hell.

So much so i never did another.

There’s going to be some pissed off people when you tell them you meant Km. 😆

Seriously though great effort.

aracer – Member

Nice one. My PB is still 58:40 (one of 3 sub hour rides IIRC), so there’s you next target

I will raise the bar slightly with a 57:20 but I am sure there are some on here who are sub 55.

OP – from your user name you are about the same age as me so well done (and great weight loss as well).

Doing my first 10 of the season this week.

I did a 58:02 way back in 1998, I think it was the pinnacle of my fitness.
I still remember the awful sickening pain of the last few miles….

Well done.

[video]http://youtu.be/dq4aOaDXIfY[/video]

Nice one GT!

We are about the same then roughly . I’m 79kg give or take a kilo, and according to my road frinds powertap can produce 250watts over a reasonable time. Which in terms of power is not alot really.
Well done on staying focussed on loosing weight whilst not riding . Through the winter I put on 4 – 5kg just through less riding and more cake.

Congratulations on the hour and losing weight.
We haven’t seen you for ages, will there be anything left to cuddle?

Where are you doing your first 25/which course is it?

Riding it in thirds feels far more natural on a 25; the first third feels OK, the last third you just pull the pin and go for it, bouyed by the sense that the pain will soon be over. It’s the middle third that hurts the most and is hardest to push through.

Just doing our local club one, HCC247 (looks like a nice gift hill at the start but it’s not an easy course, know the roads well.) Done half a dozen 10’s this year, got down to a 20:40, but never got around to doing a 25. For first attempt I’ll likely just pace it very conservatively (sweet spot sort of power) at least for the first 20 miles, with aim just to finish under an hour. Coming off a week off the bike and a lazy holiday so expecting to be a bit sluggish (getting my excuses in early 😉 )

Got to say, having only raced 10’s, 25 seems like a very long way!

If you’re doing 20s for a ten you’re massively underestimating your potential for a 25 if all you’re aiming to do, even for a first event, is go just under the hour. Even on a conservative estimate you’ll be good for a 57 with that kind of pace and a 55 should be achievable before you then go on to even greater things.

Any ten time that starts with a 20 is a very fast time. Everyone I know doing 20 minute tens is also doing sub 53 minute 25s and most of them are doing 50s.

You’ve clearly got some class as well as some training behind you. Chapeau.

Thanks geetee. Yes, looking at others who have similar 10 pace I’d like to go under 55 eventually but for my first go at it I’m just going to take it steady then build on that.

My first 10 was a horrid 32 minutes with a stupid mechanical so hopefully be better than that 😉

Congrats Geetee. Out of interest where did you get the test done? Surrey Uni?

Congrats Geetee. Out of interest where did you get the test done? Surrey Uni?

Yes, at least, it’s the Surrey Human Performance Insititue which is part of Surrey Sports Park and also part of Surrey Uni.

The test was relatively cheap but the follow up support is not really there. I’m in the last three weeks of that programme now and to be honest I can’t do the sessions they’ve scheduled and also race; just too much as the sessions are really hard. There is also no mention of any warm up before any of them so it’s up to you to know the point at which you need to start warming up before attempting the work out they set.

Blimey geetee, just read the full thread, chapeau yourself!

That is awesome! And inspriring. I assume by your username that we are the same age, and if that’s the case, your accomplishment is suggesting there might just be hope for me yet! 8)

Thanks, I’ve been dithering about going there for a while for interest sake as much as anything.

What kind of sessions are you doing to improve your power?

I assume by your username that we are the same age, and if that’s the case, your accomplishment is suggesting there might just be hope for me yet!

So this is something I’ve learned this year, that age has no respect for speed. There’s far less correlation between how fast you can go and how old you are than there is how fast you can go and your DNA and willingness to train.

Steve Denis is 52 and last year did a short 50. I mean that’s nuts if you think about it.

At the other end of the spectrum is another local guy to here, Rob Sharland, who only took up bike riding four years ago and bike racing two years ago and then three weeks ago he broke the course record for the event I did (where I managed 55:54) and posted 48:40! He’s only been racing two years!

So ultimately I think age has actually little to do with it; if you want to go fast then your DNA is the first marker and your willingness to train is the second.

You can learn a lot about yourself in the process; I think realistically I’m bumping up against the limit of where I can get to and form here on, it’s going to be very marginal gains and more exploration of how to apply myself to other distances longer than 25 miles. A 50 is next at some point, maybe a 100 next year.

What I have also learnt is that the experience of competing is itself incredibly addictive. I thought that by switching to focus just on racing rather than riding would make the whole home/work/bike balance easier to manage and while it’s true that I, ironically, spend less time on the bike now (but much more focused when I am training), competing is a far more compelling and wicked mistress. The days between competitions I am pacing around waiting for the next event and the days I can’t compete but where I am entered, I’m in all kinds of frustration.

What kind of sessions are you doing to improve your power?

It was a 10 week programme.

Weeks one to four were base training; 150-200 watts for between 60 and 90 minutes in general (with 150 being the base and rising up over time).

Weeks five to eight were threshold, ranging from 200 to 250 and duration up to 60 minutes.

Week nine was where it got hard (two weeks ago); 250 to 275 watts for up to 40 minutes.

Week ten I had to put on hold to this week; reps of 300 watts for ten minutes three times with one minute in between, then 315 watts, then 275 watts for 40 minutes.

Weeks 11 and 12 are that plus sessions at around 390 watts for a minute, with tirty seconds between and 15 reps. I’m struggling now to be honest. You need a clear few days between the reps and the racing to make it work and I’m not really focused on competing for the club honours on Tuesdays and other events on the weekend.

Got to say, having only raced 10’s, 25 seems like a very long way!

I found a 25 easier to manage than a 10, you can get settled in a bit more IME. In fact my 10 and 25 averages were remarkably similar. Hence, if you can go sub 21 mins for a 10 then I think 55 mins for a 25 is very achievable.

I remember my mate Rod going for a few sessions with a trainer when he was getting serious about 24 hour racing. The outcome was “donkeys and racehorses might both be types of equine, but no matter how much you train it, a very fit donkey will never beat a racehorse. You’re a donkey”. Or words to that effect 😉

Yes there is indeed hope. I’m a year younger than geetee. I wear my vet badge with pride 🙂

There are currently two testers quicker than me at our local club 10’s, one is 36 and the other 52.

You’re a donkey

Personally I prefer the term ‘Packhorse’ 😉

But that sounds like me, I’m built for lugging heavy things slowly, not for being a racing whippet!

Not done too many 25’s. Just did the occasional evening 10’s but I remember putting some tri bars on my road bike and getting a 59.29 which felt very hard even compared to riding E12’s on the road. Well done sir!

Please tell me you lot are on TT bikes…

Please tell me you lot are on TT bikes…

Geetee earlier…

The bike was my regular road/race bike but with clip on aero bars and deep section (60mm) wheels. Also aero helmet and skin suit.

TBH that’ll get you most of the way there if your road bike geometry allows you to get in a decent aero position, which is the main benefit of TT bike.

I’m doing them on my budget 150 quid Planet X Stealth frame. Probably not the most aero setup but I do have a 50mm on the front and a disc out back. I do keep lusting after fancier kit though 😕

So ultimately I think age has actually little to do with it

Have a look at some of the VTTA records (and weep)
Roger Iddles, 50.36, age 61
Terry Icke, 52.14, age 68
John Woodburn, 54.21, age 71

hats off to all you on here …

Endurance you can maintain as you get older and set PBs, although that does imply you are training more as you get older. Speed, strength and recovery time from injury all decline of course but endurance much less so.

Chuffin eck!

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXEX2RIV/planet-x-exocet-2-guru-rival-22-time-trial-bike

Popular bikes those, see a lot about, with some very good times being set on them too.

TBH that’ll get you most of the way there if your road bike geometry allows you to get in a decent aero position, which is the main benefit of TT bike.

First 25 I did on the TT bike I went from a 59:02 to a 57:29 and that was on a day when the winning time was ‘only’ a 52:59. Then the next ride I did a 55:54 (and went wrong on one of the RABs but that only cost me maybe six seconds).

I think the TT bike, over my road bike, is worth about two minutes over 40km.

Popular bikes those, see a lot about, with some very good times being set on them too.

Likewise. They are a bit on the heavy side but it makes a lot less difference on most no sporting courses. My only issue with them was buying without getting a proper fitting.

I went with a Boardman Air TT (the less costly version, not the Air TTE) and had a full body geometry fit with someone who knows what they’re doing.

Good stuff. Much different other than the frame? And how different is your position on the bike?

Greg

The current G25/54 course is a roundabout nightmarefest. Get thee off to a faster course (All of …a3rcg’s on the A3 spring to mind) and don’t be surprised to immediately take another minute off.

My personal fave 10 course is g10/98 as used by Worthing Excelsior on a Thursday night. My bling PB on that is 21:29 or 26:53 on a 26″ knobbly hardtail.

Good stuff. Much different other than the frame? And how different is your position on the bike?

It’s quite a bit different on reflection. The day I did the 59 on the road bike, I basically sat on the first 2cm of the saddle the whole way round and damn near castrated myself. I was so far forward and hunched down though as a result, that I could feel how much more effecient it was. That was when I decided that a TT bike would actually yield much more improvement (which it has).

The TT bike set up is as much about position over the BB as it is how much lower you are but the two together and still being relatively comfortable and able to get the power down effectively have made a big difference.

Here’s another interesting bit of information.

For the same wattage over the same course on the same bike with more or less the same conditions, but having lowered the front by 15mm seems, along with pacing the first half better, to have resulted in a 26 seconds off my PB for a ten.

And then here’s the reality check. Times are meaningless. If you want to decide who’s the best on the day don’t measure the effort based on times. Measure it based on watts/kilo.

Rob Sharland broke the P885 course record with 385 buttery smooth watts (seriously it’s amazing when you look at his power delivery trace on Strava; there’s barely any variation and that course has almost 300m of climbing in it!) I maanged about 270.

Indeed – I did the PNECC open 25 at the start of June on P881 and then the Norwood Paragon one on P885 a few weeks later. Good for a few minutes.

What’s G10/97 like? Will try to get over to the 98 and try that as well.

For the same wattage over the same course on the same bike with more or less the same conditions, but having lowered the front by 15mm seems, along with pacing the first half better, to have resulted in a 26 seconds off my PB for a ten.

A little lower (or narrower) can make a big difference. Made some tweaks to my road bike recently to make the drops a lot more usable and played around going from drops to hoods and back again while just riding along, looking at power and speed. Was quite surprised at the results as I didn’t think my position was that different.

Still getting use to the TT bike really, once I’m sorted I’ll start tweaking for aero. Must admit I’m tempted to shortcut the tweaking with some professional advice or tunnel time, I just don’t have the time to mess about.

And then here’s the reality check. Times are meaningless. If you want to decide who’s the best on the day don’t measure the effort based on times. Measure it based on watts/kilo.

Times are pretty meaningless, though not entirely sure what you mean by measuring in watts/kg. TBH I tend to measure how I’ve done based on comparison with others I know who are riding the same event.

For some reason I never get on very well on G10/97. You have a nice gift start and it’s generally pretty flat. However it can be quite windy.

Course record is middling 20’s IIRC whereas quite a few peeps have done 19’s on 10/98.

http://www.sussexca.org.uk/ for all things TTing in our area 🙂

I was being a bit provocative – times are important in many ways, but the wattage is interesting because it’s like shinning a really big light into a dark room. You really get to see where the differences come.

I think with TTs, you start off racing against yourself and your own PBs and you can either compete with yourself fair and square and look to measure your progress on a like for like, or you can chase fast courses and tell yourself that you’ve got quicker even though you went and rode the ski slope R25 course in south wales. Then after you start to get quicker and the improvments come more slowly and less drastically, you start to pay attention to where you came in the standings.

I’m less concerned now than the fact that I did a short 22 and more interested that I placed 22nd out of 57 for example.

Your results seem to get even more remarkable each time you post though MrBlobby.

Only recently on a TT bike with no guidance on set up and doing 20s. Where in the UK are you based?

Course record is middling 20’s IIRC whereas quite a few peeps have done 19’s on 10/98.

I will have to find a ride on the 98 then. Sorry Mike I’ve also just connected with who you are. Thanks for the link to the SCA. I have been to that site before but mostly I look at the ESCA page on FB.

Worthing’s club 10’s are v popular and you need to be down there by 6:20 or so for the chance of a ride.

I’ve stopped doing stuff for the SCA now but the 2013 championship 25 was a pleasure.

9pm on the Tuesday entries closed.

Mrs A – “there’s a lady on the phone asking if she can enter the 25?”
Me – we don’t get many ladies racing so nice to have another entry.
“Should be no prob if you can get your entry out ASAP. Can ask your name?”
Her – “Joanna Rowsell”
Me whir, click whir, click….. “THE Joanna Rowsell?”
“Yes”

RESULT!!

She smashed the ladies record and Hutch finally got the men’s. Jo was an excellent ambassador for the sport and happy to chat with all and sundry.

Only recently on a TT bike with no guidance on set up and doing 20s. Where in the UK are you based?

Well the long 20 was on a PB course, F11/10, fast dual carriageway stuff. I think right now I’m probably good for about a 21:30 on a typical course (should be free to have a crack at H10/1 next week in hopefully some decent conditions for a change.)

TBH I’ve only really dabbled. I did a couple of races last year and three or four the year before, really time limited due to new kids. Having a more reasonable crack at it this year and managed about half a dozen races. Seem to be making good progress and seem to learn loads and eek out a bit more power each time I race. Getting a bit distracted messing about at crits though for which I am poorly suited!

Oh and Newbury based.