Is anyone watching this documentary about him setting up a school? He really needs a massive slap – he seems to really think the world’s problems can be solved by everyone learning latin and becoming terribly middle class. What a ****

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00v1zk5/sign/Start_Your_Own_School/

My views on Young and Gove as an architect in the education sector for the last 8 years are pretty much unprintable.

Some choice bits which amused me:

Toby not caring if his school produces a Lenin or a Trotsky as long as they are free thinkers…

Toby at a local school, perhaps a PRU, discussing with students the relevance of Latin as someone who hasn’t studied Latin is priceless.

I would love to have studied classics at school, never had the opportunity. Only realise that now that I’m middle aged and fascinated by the ancient world……

Dr Richard Miles (BBC4 Ancient Worlds) – “This is not a story of long-dead civilisations, it is the story of us, then”

I used to be working class. Middle class is better.

Only realise that now that I’m middle aged and fascinated by the ancient world……

Nothing stopping you learning about it now if it really interests you is there? I thought the girl he tried to convince about learning Latin made him look a complete fool. 😆

The bit that also really got me was when, with seemingly no sense of self-awareness, he said that they had decided not to partner with an experienced education provider, and that the danger was that now people might say ‘who are these people and what do they know about running a school?’ He never seemed to consider that they might have a point.

The bit where people discussed voting Tory purely so they could get their little pet project off the ground was pretty sickening too.

mcboo – Member
I would love to have studied classics at school, never had the opportunity. Only realise that now that I’m middle aged and fascinated by the ancient world……

Dr Richard Miles (BBC4 Ancient Worlds) – “This is not a story of long-dead civilisations, it is the story of us, then”

I used to be working class. Middle class is better.

Can recommend Bettany Hughes’ series on 4OD.

Funny, for some reason I decided to message Toby Young – found his account on facebook. Yeah so it was pretty lame – I was lacking sleep 🙂

Graham Wynne 26 November at 03:41

You sir, are a pretentious, self-important snob. Your ideas would be laughable if they weren’t so destructive. This documentary just goes to show why people like you shouldn’t be allowed to run a school.

Toby Young 27 November at 07:16 Report

Are you a Trot?

Graham Wynne 27 November at 22:49

No not at all. It’s just quite obvious that this is some ego trip/point scoring exercise for you, rather than any attempt to improve education. Your wife pretty much admitted as much on the programme.

I loved your amazing lack of self-awareness or any sense of irony when you said you weren’t going to partner with an experienced education provider; ‘and now the danger is that they will think ‘who are these people and what do they know about running a school”.

What indeed…? Just in case you still aren’t getting it.

Toby Young 27 November at 23:31 Report

You’re wrong, Graham. I believe that the West London Free School will prove that it’s possible to deliver a grammar school curriculum to a comprehensive intake and, once we’ve done that, bog standard comprehensives will have no excuse for steering their less able pupils into pointless vocational courses, such as BTECs in Hair and Beauty.

I don’t see how you can accuse me of lacking self-awareness when you quote me saying that people will say exactly what you’re saying. Surely, the quote you’ve used to illustrate your point proves that the opposite of what you’re saying is true.

And, no, I’m still not getting it if you mean I don’t “get” why a group of teachers and parents aren’t qualified to set up a school. There are four experienced teachers on our SteerCo, including John McIntosh who for 29 years was the headmaster of the London Oratory, the most successful comprehensive in England. We’re now working with an experienced Project Management Company and, through them, a range of experts across a variety of fields. Once the school is up and running, I’ll be a governor, not the headmaster, and you may not be aware of this but parent-governors are not a frightening new development in secondary education.

You may think our project is pointless but, thankfully, your view isn’t shared by the teaching profession. We’ve just advertised for a head and deputy head and the recruitment team we’re working with said they’ve rarely seen such an impressive field of applicants. We’re going to end up with an outstanding head and a superb Senior Leadership Team and I have absolutely no doubt our school will quickly establish itself as one of the best state secondaries in the country.

I’m afraid your assessment of me and my team and our project is completely wrong in every detail and you will be proved so in very short order.

Graham Wynne 27 November at 23:41

‘I don’t see how you can accuse me of lacking self-awareness when you quote me saying that people will say exactly what you’re saying. Surely, the quote you’ve used to illustrate your point proves that the opposite of what you’re saying is true.’

Because it appears to have never occurred to you that ‘they’ might be right. What do you feel qualifies you exactly? Writing blogs for a complete joke of a newspaper?

I genuinely hope I am wrong though.

You sir, are a pretentious, self-important snob.

Yeah you’re right it was lame.

Fair play to Toby for taking the time to put forward an evidence based rebuttal following your abusive opening name calling. Bit of a mistake posting that conversation as Toby comes out of it way better than you do.

Why not try making some cogent points next time instead of knee jerk abuse?

You mean like where he said ‘are you a trot’? That was a good argument. He is also probably well practised at replying to abusive emails on the subject. 😉

Did you actually watch the programme? It made me quite angry, hence the insults (which I still believe to be accurate btw). I didn’t post it to make me look cool, just because I thought it was interesting. Fair play to him for replying indeed, but it doesn’t change anything.

Why complain being called a trot after your opening? I wouldn’t have bothered getting into a conversation with you following that

Fair play to him for replying indeed, but it doesn’t change anything

I doubt there’s anything he could have said to change your mind.

I’m not complaining about being called a trot. I also wasn’t expecting him to get into a conversation. And he does write blogs for a joke of a newspaper.

Did you watch the programme?

I used to be working class. Middle class is better.

My God, where do you start with that statement? 🙄
What is it about being ‘working class’ that precludes an interest in ancient civilisations?

No I didn’t watch the programme. It may be that some of his ideas are a bit daft however just because you apparently hate his politics try to avoid the usual left wing emotional response and put forward a coherent argument as Toby Young did.

Why complain being called a trot after your opening? I wouldn’t have bothered getting into a conversation with you following that

I didn’t watch the programme, nor do I read the Spectator or Telegraph blogs. But I am prepared to accept that grumm’s description of Toby Young as a “pretentious self-important snob” might well be possibly true – do you know for a fact that Toby Young is neither “pretentious” nor a “self-important snob” uponthedowns ?

Presumably grumm has based his allegations on evidence which believes he posses. There isn’t however, any evidence from grumm’s initial comment to Toby Young, to suggest that grumm might be a Trot.

I’m sure that opposition to Toby Young’s free school isn’t restricted solely to “free-thinking Trotskyists”.

💡 Maybe I should write to Mr Young myself, and see if he recognises a “free-thinking Leninist” when he sees one ?