- This topic has 148 replies, 46 voices, and was last updated 13 years ago by konabunny.
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TJ is right (again)
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druidhFree Member
You read it here first…
Drivers are forking out only slightly more for fuel than 30 years ago because cars have become more economical, according to new research.
The average annual fuel bill for a current Ford Mondeo is £2,081, while the fuel bill in 1980 for a similar-sized Ford Cortina would have been £1,889 in today’s money, Which? magazine reports today.…expect to see this one quoted in future threads about petrol cost 😀
coffeekingFree MemberAnd how much was tax and insurance back then? And what about the fact that wages have not followed inflation? Poor findings! These days you’d be lucky not to spend half the annual fuel costs in insurance alone.
KitFree MemberSo paying an extra 10% then? What about insurance and maintenance costs? And compared with the cost of public transport? Lothian bus tickets have gone up 100% in price in the 13 years I’ve been in Edinburgh.
ernie_lynchFree MemberAnd what about the fact that wages have not followed inflation?
Not really relevant to the story is it – separate argument.
coffeekingFree MemberNot really relevant to the story is it – separate argument.
It is entirely relevant – since wages have not followed inflation the real-terms cost of motoring has increased more than the 10% specified.
KitFree MemberIsn’t the fact that the 1980’s petrol price is quoted in today’s money mean that inflation has been taken into account?
yunkiFree MemberIt is entirely relevant – since wages have not followed inflation
If that’s true.. how come no-ones getting their knickers in a twist over house prices..?
or am I missing something..?
JunkyardFree MemberIt is entirely relevant – since wages have not followed inflation the real-terms cost of motoring has increased more than the 10% specified.
you seem to be getting cross that wages have dropped in real terms which affects how much money you have to spend. However the fact remains that the cost of fuelling a car has not changed much which is what the article says. Public transport has massively increased in real terms in the same period
Ps can you post up evidence that wages have dropped in real terms in the same period – Dont know tbh what the truth is
Pedant
since wages have not followed inflation the real-terms cost of motoring has increased more than the 10% specified
no they have not but the % of your income spent on it has assuming this is true re wages decreasing
coffeekingFree MemberIsn’t the fact that the 1980’s petrol price is quoted in today’s money mean that inflation has been taken into account?
Inflation, yes. But that’s nothing to do with actual cost WRT average income.
or am I missing something..?
😆
nickfFree MemberAnd cars nowadays are prety good, needing a service every 15-20k. The average Cortina was rubbish and needed fixing every other weekend, finally expiring at about 75k.
“Back in the day”? You can keep it.
coffeekingFree Memberyou seem to be getting cross that wages have dropped in real terms which affects how much money you have to spend. However the fact remains that the cost of fuelling a car has not changed much which is what the article says. Public transport has massively increased in real terms in the same period
Fair point, but it [OP] was in the context of “it’s no different now to then”.
Ps can you post up evidence that wages have dropped in real terms in the same period – Dont know tbh what the truth is
No, it was a figure I read somewhere, I’ve long since forgotten where I’m, afraid!
ernie_lynchFree MemberPs can you post up evidence that wages have dropped in real terms in the same period – Dont know tbh what the truth is
Wages today are a smaller percentage of the GDP than they were 30 years (12% less I think) Don’t ask me for a link though – the information is out there, somewhere.
coffeekingFree MemberAnd cars nowadays are prety good, needing a service every 15-20k. The average Cortina was rubbish and needed fixing every other weekend, finally expiring at about 75k.
I think that’s somewhat displaced by the fact that when parts wear out on modern vehicles, or electrical faults develop, it can practically write-off a perfectly usable vehicle solely through cost. I’m not sure that was the case in the 70s.
mrmoFree Memberi know the following is US data but is applicable to the UK
food expeditureFood is far cheaper now than it has been, as a percentage of income. so more money to spend on tat.
uplinkFree MemberI think that’s somewhat displaced by the fact that when parts wear out on modern vehicles, or electrical faults develop, it can practically write-off a perfectly usable vehicle solely through cost. I’m not sure that was the case in the 70s.
tell me about it……….
My 3.5 yr old Toyota needs new injectors – £1,238 😯
13thfloormonkFull MemberLothian bus tickets have gone up 100% in price in the 13 years I’ve been in Edinburgh.
Make that 100% plus 10p, £1.30 a single now 🙁
ernie_lynchFree MemberFood is far cheaper now than it has been, as a percentage of income. so more money to spend on tat.
Yep, food in the UK, relatively speaking, is much cheaper than it was 30/40/50 years ago. Certain produce from third world countries such as cocoa, has remained unchanged for 30 years – despite chocolate prices in the UK having gone up in the last 30 years.
Don’t know how much longer that will last though, probably not very long. Already cocoa has hit a thirty year high :
cranberryFree Memberuplink – why the hell does it need new injectors at that age ?
TandemJeremyFree MemberYup – cars are cheap, driving is cheap. private motoring gets huge subsidies from the public purse.
Its electoral suicide to have sensible policies on this. So we will merely wait until change is forced upon us rather than sensibly plan for it and move towards the inevitable end of private motoring.
KitFree MemberMake that 100% plus 10p, £1.30 a single now
I’m sure Colin will trump me on this, but cheapest adult bus ticket you could get when I moved to Edinburgh was 50p. I think day tickets were about £1.50 and a month bus pass was £30. Aye so in 13 years, tickets are now going to be £1.30 and £3.20 for a day. Luckily just got my 28 day pass (as a student!) for £43, so I’m guessing a full price one is £60?
Ker-razy!
uplinkFree Memberuplink – why the hell does it need new injectors at that age ?
No idea, I’m hoping that Toyota help out with it, it’s only done 38K
donsimonFree MemberTJ is right (again)
What’s this “again” malarkey? There was a first time?
DezBFree Memberok
I’m going for a lie down. Ernie_lynch accepted that he was wrong (didn’t he?) (Don’t ruin it for me)
retro83Free MemberTandemJeremy – Member
Yup – cars are cheap, driving is cheap. private motoring gets huge subsidies from the public purse.Its electoral suicide to have sensible policies on this. So we will merely wait until change is forced upon us rather than sensibly plan for it and move towards the inevitable end of private motoring.
What’s the sensible policy on this in your opinion?
ernie_lynchFree MemberI’m going for a lie down. Ernie_lynch accepted that he was wrong (didn’t he?) (Don’t ruin it for me)
Yes, if it makes you happy.
Personally I thought it was cause I couldn’t be bothered. But if that is taken as me accepting that I was wrong, I’m ok with it.
TandemJeremyFree MemberWhat’s the sensible policy on this in your opinion?
ratchet up the cost of motoring which in itself will slowly push change and use the money raised to subsidise public transport.
If petrol was £20 a gallon how long till cars did 100 mpg plus and how long until commuting long distances in cars becomes non-viable?
We will have to change as energy will get more expensive and especially oil based energy. It would be better to do this in a planned manner rather than waiting until forced. Get the alternatives in place now while there is spare money and time to do it
chewkwFree MemberSo TJ does that mean we will be limited by the range we travel if we only rely on public transport?
😮
Capt.KronosFree MemberI don’t agree with ratcheting up the price of traditional fuels, that is not going to solve anything – especially as most people can’t afford to move now (and speaking as a mobile engineer what I charge to service a pumping system would go up massively as I would have to cover those additional costs, the same would be true of anything transported by road or the services of anyone who had to travel by road).
What needs to be done is for the EU or National Governements to decide what the successor to oil is going to be once and for all rather than “leave it to the market”, invest in that technology and the fueling/charging infrastructure to run it. People will then make the natural progression on cost and environmental gounds.
But it won’t happen, so we are… indeed… all doomed.
TandemJeremyFree Membercapt kronos – there is no possible successor to oil. Energy will become more and more expensive, there is no sign of any practical way to provide the energy for personal transport
The timescale is decades. If we don’t do something to change the reliance on high energy consuming personal transport then change will be forced upon us.
Far better to plan and provide for this change than to have it forced upon us
I don’t want to see fuel made unaffordable overnight – it took a couple of generations to get where we are now, it will take at least a generation to change it to a more sustainable society not so reliant on inefficient high energy consuming personal transport
CountZeroFull MemberWhat public transport? It’s fine for the urban elite who have public transport on their doorstep, but get out into rural areas, and you’re lucky to have one bus out and back a day, and even then have a walk of a mile or more on narrow unlit lanes. TJ’s obsession with a car-free society totally blinds him to the reality of what rural people have to deal with, and no amount of public subsidy will make a blind bit of difference. A work colleague lives six miles away, and currently takes a taxi as he is without a car at the moment. A bus would cost more, and a ten-fifteen minute drive takes over two hours in a bus, because of the route it takes. And as he starts work at 6am, does TJ imagine it would be possible to catch a bus at three in the morning? Or even five, if it took a shorter route? Give me a break.
ElfinsafetyFree MemberWhat is TJ right about though? I don’t get it.
I took the Number Forty Six Bus from Swiss Cottage to Grays Inn road today. Great little journey, highly recommended.
Went past, among other delights, St Pancras station, and Caymden Tahyn All!!!
Buses rawk! You can sit back and enjoy the journey.
TandemJeremyFree MemberCount – you so miss the point.
I agree it cannot be done overnight. However what you describe is exactly the kind of unsustainable lifestyle we will simply not be able to do in 50 years time
6 miles? Bicycle
I use to get a bus from a village into a town to work starting work at 6.30 am – mile walk, 7 miles in a bus, half mile walk.
Its feasible you know. Teh more people that use public transport the more feasable it is
How are you going to manage when you cannot afford the fuel for your car? it will happen in our lifetimes
Stu_NFull MemberWhen I started drinking in about 1992 and I could get 4 pints for a fiver. (John Smith’s Magnet was ale of choice – lager was too dear). In real terms (i.e. correcting for inflation on RPI) it should be 2.06 a pint. Fortunately I now need about 1/3 less beer to get happily pished so it all balances out.
Oh, and the current job pays better than the Saturday and Sunday morning newsagent jobs I had back then.
boxelderFull MemberI hope private motoring is reduced by healthier more sustainable alternatives being developed – don’t want my kids having to live around motor culture. Not having to endure Clarkson would be a bonus.
Stu_NFull MemberOh, and Edinburgh buses were 80p in 2002 when I moved here – allowing for inflation should be £1.06 now – not £1.30 as they will be next week….
Capt.KronosFree MemberI don’t see any way that we can change the personal mobility that we now enjoy – but there are surely much easier and better ways to save energy anyway. We (the west) waste so much energy utterly needlessly (just noticed I have left the hall and kitchen lights on… ahem…) that there are vast savings to be made.
There will be ongoing personal mobility, there will be an alternative fuel… we can’t turn the clock back on that one (well, we can – but 99.999% of the world will be hugely resistant to it).
That isn’t to say that I think it would be a bad thing to make the world a more local orientated place. I actually quite like the idea. It just isn’t going to happen! Whether we go electric, compressed air, methanol, hydrogen or something else that we haven’t thought of yet, I am pretty sure that a solution will come along that allows business as usual.
Now – I best go and turn those lights off 😉
ElfinsafetyFree MemberAre they energy saving bulbs though? Cos if they are, it’s ok if you leave them on, because you’re actually saving energy. 😀
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