For busy everyday people I don’t think there can be much substitute for time spent on the bike honing teh skillz. Thinking of the fastest downhill riders I know they certainly don’t go to the gym and won’t win any fitness competitions.

The other thing to say is… next time you’re stood at the top with your new mate, ask him to show you his lines / where he’s going & why & then ask if he’ll slow down a bit & let you follow. I’ve just watched Ben Cathro’s helmet cam from the race I mentioned & where everyone else follows the same path, he goes on & off the track all the time. He’s cutting corners, riding on the grass at the side as it’s got better grip or a better angle into the next corner. Sat here wondering “Why didn’t I see that????”

the fastest downhill riders I know they certainly don’t go to the gym

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/bike/stories/1331623080129/gee-atherton-training-mtb-downhill

look at gee atherton vs brendon fairclough. similar age, coming up through the same series to WC level.

Arguably Brendon is a more skillful rider than Gee.

Which one actually wins stuff?

2 pages and 44 posts and nothing from MTbmable telling you your all wrong about everything …. 😛

Thinking of the fastest downhill riders I know they certainly don’t go to the gym and won’t win any fitness competitions

I regularly bump into Josh Lewis and Craig Evans in the gym, as they do the S&C session before me. I’ve not seen Peaty there yet, but I know he uses the same place. An awful lot of the non-pro, but bloody rapid, local fast boys do it too.

– also – see point 4
http://velocitysportscycling.com/cycling-myth-busting-from-team-sky/

So from my experience, the following will help your fitness, endurance and ability to sprint for longer, not get as much arm pump etc:

Big compound moves, lifting heavy with low reps – deadlifts, squats, bench press.

Dumbell – Chest press, Bent over row, Chest Fly’s

Kettlebell – Hip Swing, Romanian Deadlift, Clean and jerk (can be done with an Olympic bar as well)

Bodyweight – Pressups, situp variations, planks, TRX work

Interval Training – Down to the individual, but I usually do pyramids, so 2 min on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 4 on, 2 off, 3 on, 2 off, 2 on, 2 off.

The above will help, undoubtedlyDon’t compromise time on the bike though, gym training and time on the bike should compliment each other. I mainly do my fitness side in the gym, and use my bike time to practise my technical riding (the part I enjoy!)

as they do the S&C session before me

sack and crack?

I go to the gym four times a week, have done for ten years. I’m still crap at enduro. I don’t ride my bike enough.

As with all these things it’s a balance .

A lot of James Wilson’s stuff is very American, but the fact is, it works. He’s trained enough top flight racers to know the score – and there are plenty of “me too” people popping up using his stuff under their own brand as well.

I followed his programme a couple of years ago when I was at my peak and raced most of the Superenduro series – the key things I found were that I was able to muscle the bike much more, I was more resistant to fatigue over the course of a long day, and felt a lot more efficient in terms of energy usage/management. I don’t know enough about physiology to fully explain it, but it felt like my whole body was running 10-15% better as a machine. Recovery time post event was far better as well.

Knowing several pro enduro racers now (EWS level, national champion level), a huge amount of their training time is spent on strength, mobility and overall conditioning as opposed to just “leg speed” or “technique” – it’s seeing the whole body as a machine, with lots of different component parts, all summing up to make the overall machine perform better. You wouldn’t tune up a car’s engine without looking at suspension, brakes and tyres. The body is no different.

I’m afraid I don’t know Gee atherton, brendog or Peaty, but as biking as is their job I’m sure they do go to the gym quite a bit.

As a normal punter if I only had a couple of two or three hour windows a week spare to get better at biking, I’d certainly be out on the bike and not in the gym anyway. ymmv

Time spent on your bike riding; not in the gym; will make you faster.

it’s more complicated though. what’s your weakest link? if you’re too fatigued to use your aerobic fitness then you need gym time.

I struggled in the paris-roubaix sportive because i didn’t have the core strength in the cobbles: could have ridden harder but my middle hurt. Maybe a bit less bike time and a bit more gym time would have left me more balanced. roadie not enduro: blah, blah.

Knowing several pro enduro racers now (EWS level, national champion level), a huge amount of their training time is spent on strength, mobility and overall conditioning as opposed to just “leg speed” or “technique” – it’s seeing the whole body as a machine, with lots of different component parts, all summing up to make the overall machine perform better. You wouldn’t tune up a car’s engine without looking at suspension, brakes and tyres. The body is no different.

The difference is, those guys have all got the skills for the bike riding part already, so they don’t need to spend the time sessioning corners/jumps/sections/etc.

They can focus on the smaller % gains over a wider spectrum.

I’ll maintain, that for your Average Joe doing some enduro races, the biggest gains will be going out on your bike, as much as possible & trying to ride it as fast as possible.

Once you’re knocking on the door of the top 10% in your category, then maybe is the time to worry about the marginal gains elsewhere.

Gym sessions are ok but if you are in n wales go over and do repeated runs of antur stiniog, 10 -15 runs of the black is a mega workout and bike skills training at the same time.
also is you live near any unofficial dh tracks session these and experiment with lines.

I’ll maintain, that for your Average Joe doing some enduro races, the biggest gains will be going out on your bike, as much as possible & trying to ride it as fast as possible.

+1
BUT being more mobile, stronger and fitter is certainly going to help. Less physical and mental fatigue will help your riding significantly. Can improve balance and co ordination too ( as long as you’re doing more than basic heavy lifts).

Once you’re knocking on the door of the top 10% in your category, then maybe is the time to worry about the marginal gains elsewhere.

Not true, you’d be suprised how competitive all races are, even at the lower end, and the level pople ride and train at. I race the UKGE and a few EWS, and the level at the UKGE is so much higher than 2/3 years ago. Time in the gym and time on the bike are both important. If you want to race and do relatively well, you need to make time for both, as you can be sure everyone else is….

Time in the gym and time on the bike are both important. If you want to race and do relatively well, you need to make time for both, as you can be sure everyone else is….

I managed to chat to Gee Atherton about this last summer, he saw gym work as being essential to stay at the top and help to prevent injuries. Also its an arms race – If one racer is doing it to get an edge then the rest will have to. Natural talent can only carry you so far.
Completely agree with the point about marginal gains being important all the way down the category – if you can gain 10 seconds on a stage through being fitter / stronger / not crashing and there are 6 stages that’s a minute saved over the next rider (or a minute not lost depending on your strengths and weaknesses)
If you’re serious about getting progressing then a dedicated and measurable programme is the quickest way forward – Strava / HRMS / workout logs are all there to measure your performance, tie this into quality time on the bike and you should see decent improvements.

Coming from the angle of someone who rides their bike a lot. I did the Bike James one this year and the gains were enormous. Uphill I sort of expected but suddenly I was the fastest in my group by quite a way. The DH gains were what surprised me. I do plenty of riding, say 5000-15000m down a week so thought I’d have developed the muscles already but I noticed really big speed gains and also in how comfortable I was moving the bike around. Everyone commented on it. Then I herniated two discs in my neck and have had two months off the bike! Back now but it was pretty rough. Was it to do with the training? Who knows. I think I was getting a bit carried away with it and really going for it. Also I have a heavy baby, spend a lot of late nights working on the computer and driving. The Dr said that all these were as likely as the training. I do know that the last month I was in pain but zipped up my man suit and proceeded to totally screw myself up!

Has anyone done the BIke James bodyweight plan? I really hate gyms.

I reckon… Well, this is obvious but it’s going to mostly depend on you and your own basic capability.

Like, SES round 1 at innerleithen, by the bottom of prospacker people were dying, I spoke to folks who’d been in pure survival mode because they were so burned out, or been struggling with basic control because of tiredness, claw hands etc, who’d usually be fast down that section but who couldn’t make it happen. If that’s you, then there’s huge gains to be made- we’re not talking seconds here, it slows you down over huge sections, causes crashes, etc. Basically, takes you out of your comfort zone.

And I think that’s mostly just because people aren’t generally used to riding harder stuff for longer, or after a pedal section. It’s physical but also a matter of composure- one undermines the other. Building up upper body strength or cardio fitness could make a massive difference, and transfer back into better riding.

Similiarly, if over the course of a day you’re flagging, then fixing that’ll make an enormous difference too. No amount of strength or skill is very useful when the tank’s empty.

But if you can already sustain that sort of riding to a decent level, then the gains are going to be more marginal- you can always pedal harder but you can’t make up those gulfs.

I’m doing the hardtail cat of the scottish series this year and frankly it is kicking my arse, everything is just that little bit harder work and sometimes it’s put me back into that space where instead of gaining or losing a second or two, I lose composure or commitment and end up losing 10 seconds through a section, or screwing up lines etc, that I never would normally. For the first time in years I’ve had trouble with arm tiredness etc. It’s actually a pretty small difference in performance, but it makes a huge difference in outcomes.

I suppose what I’m fundamentally saying is no more complicated than “know yourself”, and working with that. But in particular, removing weaknesses can be more productive than building strengths. There’s a tendancy to play to your strengths though because it’s usually more satisfying.

I find going to the gym the most tedious thing under the sun, hence I’d much prefer to do a complimentary sport. Maybe try yoga or bouldering/climbing? Both will really help with your core strength, balance and subtlety of grip/strength. They’re fun and you don’t have to look at all the meatheads in baggy wifebeaters, mentally rubbing one out over themselves, for an hour every night.

That, and cutties. Lots and lots of cutties. Everywhere.

Has anyone done the Bike James bodyweight plan? I really hate gyms.

Not quite but I am doing the kettlebell programme which doesn’t need a gym. I have the bodyweight manual too which he gave me but I haven’t followed it. I started off on the gym programme but being able to do the circuits in a busy gym was a bit of a pain so I wanted something to do at home. The KB stuff works perfectly with a home setup. I replaced the gym sessions in the programme with the KB sessions and mix them up with his Energy System Development (ESD) programme.

Overall it’s working very well for me. I need stucture in my training, and in most things in life. “just riding my bike” doesn’t work for me as it lacks direction. I like to see things planned out with clear progression. Last year was my first year of racing and a real eye opener. At the start of the year I thought about what I could definitely improve. There’s no guarantee I could get braver and more confident on the bike, but I could definitely get fitter and stronger so I decided to focus on that with the belief that improvements in that area would also allow me to ride better and more confidently as I’d be physically improved. I don’t have any raw talent on the bike unlike others!

So far the results are noticeable. Massive improvements in strength, fitness and stamina. Unofficially based on Strava I’m seeing significant time improvements particularly in climbing segments and overall endurance. I can ride pretty much non-stop for 3+ hours now and not feel totally burst. Officially from a racing perspective I’ve had by far my best result ever relative to the rest of my class, and the gap between my times and those I race regularly with has improved significantly. That to me makes the investment, both from a time and money perspective, 100% worthwhile.

thanks Bob, never used a kettlebell before, do I just need to buy one?

Not true, you’d be suprised how competitive all races are, even at the lower end, and the level pople ride and train at. I race the UKGE and a few EWS, and the level at the UKGE is so much higher than 2/3 years ago. Time in the gym and time on the bike are both important. If you want to race and do relatively well, you need to make time for both, as you can be sure everyone else is….

I know how competitive they are, I race in them!

I haven’t been near a gym in years, I just ride my bike & do some commuting to work, as do all the guys I ride with. Normally we hover (assuming no issues) around the top 15% in our category in a UKGE.

I don’t doubt things could improve if I took it more seriously, and went to the gym, did some targeted training etc, but it’s just a bit of fun.

My point being you could, just by riding your bike, get into the top 20% of your respective category.

never used a kettlebell before, do I just need to buy one?

He gives recommendations in the manual for suggested weights. Complete novice with low strength levels = 12kg kettlebell. I use a 15kg one and by the end of a session I’m burst. To give you an idea of what a session looks like, the “hard” phase 2 session is

Mobility and warm up drills (foam roller and stretching)
30 kettlebell clean and presses (15 each side)
48 two point rows (24 each side)
32 Bulgarian split squats (16 each side)
110 single arm kettle bell swings (55 each side)

All of those are split into sets of 3×8 etc. The manual comes with demos of every exercise and video links to full demonstrations of each session. Really professional stuff.

My point being you could, just by riding your bike, get into the top 20% of your respective category.

I was just riding my bike and couldn’t get out the bottom 20%!

The general rule is: play to your strengths, work on your weaknesses.

So if you find you are picking the wrong lines then do laps on technical sections to work on picking better lines. However if you are picking the wrong lines because you are tired then you need to work on your stamina. If you are picking poor lines because you don’t have the strength to handle the bike through them then you need to work on your strength. This needs quite a bit of post ride analysis which is why top athletes have coaches, it’s someone to get feedback from, if they are doing their job right then they’ll pick up on the causes rather than the symptoms. Most of us can’t afford to have a coach so need to do the job ourselves.

Most sports are very specific in their muscle demands so gym work or similar is worth doing to ensure that you don’t get a muscle imbalance. You have primary muscle groups which do the main bulk of the work but also secondary muscle groups that do things like keep joints in alignment and these need workouts as well. As a climber I began going to Pilates classes, hmm doing nothing here, it’s easy! An hour later and I’m wondering why everything is such hard work! Doing something different gives your body a wakeup call

Of course none of this works in isolation: if you are stronger then you don’t tire so easily so you pick a better line so you use less energy (nervous and physical) so you don’t get so tired.

To be effective all training should have a specific purpose: I’m doing this exercise/activity to improve that weakness.

the other challenge I have is I have nowhere close by that can effectively replicate race conditions. I have to drive for well over an hour to find somewhere with a 10-12 minute descent, so in order to maximise my training I have to do off bike stuff.

He gives recommendations in the manual for suggested weights. Complete novice with low strength levels = 12kg kettlebell. I use a 15kg one and by the end of a session I’m burst. To give you an idea of what a session looks like, the “hard” phase 2 session is

Mobility and warm up drills (foam roller and stretching)
30 kettlebell clean and presses (15 each side)
48 two point rows (24 each side)
32 Bulgarian split squats (16 each side)
110 single arm kettle bell swings (55 each side)

All of those are split into sets of 3×8 etc. The manual comes with demos of every exercise and video links to full demonstrations of each session. Really professional stuff.

thank you very much

was just riding my bike and couldn’t get out the bottom 20%!

Completely agree. If you are lucky enough to be that talented a rider, then that’s great, but others have to find other areas to improve. I was always finishing around 25-35% from the back. First two races this season have been top 50%. A proper off season look to have helped.

Something else, like the insanity programmes may be of use, having never tried them I couldn’t recommend, but a few friends have got in very good shape from doing it. Seems good for overall body conditioning.

Completely agree. If you are lucky enough to be that talented a rider, then that’s great, but others have to find other areas to improve. I was always finishing around 25-35% from the back. First two races this season have been top 50%. A proper off season look to have helped.

Indeed. So far this season I’ve managed to beat 40% of the field in one race which is my best so far. the Scottish series is harder to gauge so far as the field is much more stacked this year, but if I compare myself to fast mates, last year I was generally 20%-30% slower than them. So far this year I’ve closed that gap to 10%-15%.

best thing I’ve found is insanity work out. i work away a lot and don’t have access to a training bike 🙁 but this does help. hope I’ve helped you out
it can be dowloaded from a torrent site but shhhhh

Only sped read this and can’t see it mentioned. Best way to get quicker is to ride with someone who is quicker than you. They’ll push you, you’ll push more to keep up. You’ll try their lines etc.

That’s why I have such a following.. Nawt

My point being you could, just by riding your bike, get into the top 20% of your respective category.

Just riding won’t help as much as structured training. It’s way too easy to go out for a ride and not push yourself anywhere near hard enough to get the maximum benefit from the time on the bike.