^. lol

There needs to be balance

Luckily for you that 97%* of sport on TV looks like it always did since the 1970s living memory.

Sleep easy. Your ‘balance’ is intact. No-one is mugging you with images of women playing footie.

*figure pulled out of the air.

Malvern Rider – Member

^. lol.

Solid.

The underlying issue is that a national broadcaster has a blatant political bias

I don’t think it’s that they’ve decided arbitrarily that they’re going to show or report on more women’s’ sport, but that they’ve a duty under their charter to demonstrate equality, which is what? under 30 seconds at most at the end of news segment in a broadcast day of 24 hours, it amounts to, I dunno; 3 minutes tops maybe? That’s what the OP and you have your knickers in a collective twist about here. If that’s “blatant political bias” then you need to have a word with yourself.

So should all sports be treated equally in all facets of life? Should we categorise sports and sports broadcasting by how oppressed and marginalised the competitors are?

That actually hurt my head. Is there a monolithic level of extreme cynicism one can reach that makes it easier to think that way? Not convinced I want to go there but hey. Whatever gets you through. But to my wooly head it sounds like this:

P1. Look, women on TV where there should be a man. Bloody PC gone mad.
P2. They’re playing football
P1. Oh, they only show it because they love to think that poooor little women are oppressed
P2. I think they are just giving more diverse coverage?
P1. d i v e r s i t y it sounds so innocent doesn’t it. But we know what it means. It means preferential treatment for the handicapped and the weaker sex. OTT coverage for people not deserving of it. It’s the l i b e r a l a g e n d a
P2. Wow, I never thought of it in that way.
P1. Then you are asleep. I shall now sally forth once more to do battle against this rising tide of despicable prejudice against males. What next? A black ginger gay kid on prime time TV because he came second at Scrabble?
P2. It was women playing football
P1. You liberals make me sick.
P2. Maybe you’re looking at things in black and white, like, you know, cognitive bias/projection? All people can do that sometimes. The world isn’t ‘liberal vs conservative’
P1. Then why are liberals taking over the balance?
P2. The ‘balance’?
P1. Yep.
P2. Er, sorry I’m lost, think you need to find a ‘liberal’ version of yourself to argue with.
P1. No way. They have cognitive bias. Not worth it.
P2. I completely agree.

Just saw this:

Is the op complaining because it’s being mentioned or the fact that it’s being mentioned on national tv despite its relative obscurity? Let’s not play dumb.

That’s precisely why it should be mentioned.

But, but then that’s back to creating false-normal?

But, but then that’s back to creating false-normal?

Normal is normal. Anything else just isn’t. Why can’t you lefties see this? Trying to make it what it isn’t!

And we’re back to women playing football being abnormal. Disabled toilets are used by a small minority of the population, should we get rid of those too? Think of all the extra space we could give to “normal” people then.

It’s not political correctness gorn mayd, it’s promoting something which deserves to be promoted for heaven’s sake. The world isn’t going to end because a reporter goes “oh yeah, the women are doing quite well too” at the end of a sport’s report.

Ninja edit there, but I see you.

In years to come there will be hardly any women who were born women in top level womens sport, they will have been replaced with women who were born men.

That’s a huge issue bubbling away right there. Let’s see which set of rights trumps the other.

Jesus wept! I thought I’d heard it all but since the last contributor joined this thread, I am finally convinced that all of this matters not a jot because we as a civilisation (if that is not utterly the wrong word) are doomed.

Pilot what are your views on trans women competing in womens sports?

Oh, and jimjam, if you can point out exactly where it is in the thread that the OP is compared with HW and where it is suggested by anyone other than yourself that you have mental health problems, I’d be interested to see it.

Rene, I think they have every right to compete. No one is going to going through all the physical pain and emotional stress of gender reassignment just to be a successful athlete. Trans people need to be given the same rights as everyone else in society. And anyway, how many trans people are there? 1% of the population? Less than that. The numbers are so small that in any event it just doesn’t matter. Let’s not make trans people the next whipping boys of society.

Pilot what are your views on trans women competing in womens sports?

Or as they’re more commonly known, women.

I think they should have all the rights to equality including the right to compete, just not as women. Sure they are a small percentage now, but year on year that will increase. At which point does it become an issue? 10%, 20%?

I’ll let women decide what makes a woman a woman, they don’t need men to decide for them. I suggest anyone claiming to be a feminist actually go have a discusion with some real feminists about transgender issues and how they impact women.

I thin they should have all the rights to equality including the right to compete, just not as women.

Why? They are women.

Sure they are a small percentage now, but year on year that will increase.

Will it? On what are you basing this prediction?

‘ll let women decide what makes a woman a woman, they don’t need men to decide for them

Ah. Irony.

I suggest anyone claiming to be a feminist actually go have a discusion with some real feminists about transgender issues and how they impact women.

I already have, I know many.

I suggest you talk to some trans women.

Why? They are women.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-34625512/germaine-greer-transgender-women-are-not-women

Sure they are a small percentage now, but year on year that will increase. At which point does it become an issue? 10%, 20%?

To be clear, I was refering to the percentage involved in womens sport, not the overall population.

Question stands.

The Pilot – Member

Oh, and jimjam, if you can point out exactly where it is in the thread that the OP is compared with Harvey Weinstein

The Pilot – Member

I’m guessing a number of contributors to this thread are trolls but, even if they are or are not, it serves to demonstrate why everybody from Harvey Weinstein to the slightly too touchy-feely guy at the office can get away with what they do.

The Pilot – Member

and where it is suggested by anyone other than yourself that you have mental health problems, I’d be interested to see it.

The Pilot – Member

Jimjam, I think you need to seek professional help.

Question stands.

Because some rules have changed and more will likely change in future.

Gender is only a societal construct anyway. apparently. It won’t be long before you can choose which competition you can enter.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgp9MPLEAqA[/video]

Fanny playing footie eh. Whatever next? Do they do it in sexy outfits?

Just for you:

People with privilege and a sense of self-entitlement resenting time or attention spent on people different to them and on helping those people feel a more valued part of mainstream society…

Seems to be a bit of a theme these days… Sad.

Malvern Rider – Member

So should all sports be treated equally in all facets of life? Should we categorise sports and sports broadcasting by how oppressed and marginalised the competitors are?

That actually hurt my head. Is there a monolithic level of extreme cynicism one can reach that makes it easier to think that way? Not convinced I want to go there but hey. Whatever gets you through. But to my wooly head it sounds like this:

P1. Look, women on TV where there should be a man. Bloody PC gone mad.[/quote]

I posed a question and you answered it with an insult, followed by a hypothetical debate of your own creation featuring a gross caricature that indicates how you view people who disagree with you.

Stoatsbrother – Member

People with privilege

Who’s that then?

Because some rules have changed

And why do you think that might be?

and more will likely change in future.

Will they? What rules are likely to change? And again, what are you basing this on?

countzero a male games teacher at a local private school showed clips of that league to young teenage girls last year. Do you think that was appropriate?

jimjam the people who have run sport, televised it and systematically excluded women till recently. A period of positive discrimination might not be a bad idea…

And why do you think that might be?

Because it was thought of as the right thing to do.

Will they? What rules are likely to change? And again, what are you basing this on?

Wont they? What rules are not likely to change? And what are you basing this on?

Who’s that then?

Anyone with time to debate pointless bollocks like this is the very definition of privileged.

I’d say go and ride your bikes or something but you might see a woman riding a bike and have a **** aneurysm.

fin25 – Member

Who’s that then?

Anyone with time to debate pointless bollocks like this is the very definition of privileged.[/quote]

So equality, impartiality and discrimination are pointless bollocks? Perhaps you didn’t notice we weren’t just discussing football.

I’d say go and ride your bikes or something but you might see a woman riding a bike and have a **** aneurysm.

So another insult/slur.

Stoatsbrother – Member

jimjam the people who have run sport, televised it and systematically excluded women till recently. A period of positive discrimination might not be a bad idea…

Ok, so what does that look like? How much positive discrimination? Who decides? What’s the ultimate aim?

Jimjam, how you think that that comment meant that I was comparing the OP to HW, I shall never know. But believe it if you want, makes no difference to me.
What I was saying is that if you treat women as so unimportant that you don’t even report on them taking part in sport then a society in which characters such as HW (as the very worst example) can operate may be the result.

As for commenting on your mental health, I really wasn’t, was thinking more about anger management issues. Perhaps understandable when you consider your reply

YEAH!!!! They do don’t they! the guy in the office and Harvey Weinstein…they all get away with it. Horrible men. Dirty ****** men molesting and harassing women all over Hollywood and your office. It’s a real problem.

But probably inappropriate so I apologise for that.

Because it was thought of as the right thing to do.

Bingo.

Wont they? What rules are not likely to change? And what are you basing this on?

I have no idea, you’re the one making assertions, not me. I’m trying to ascertain whether there’s any foundation to it or whether you’re just making shit up. What rules are you afraid will change? Name one?

The Pilot – Member

What I was saying is that if you treat women as so unimportant that you don’t even report on them taking part in sport then a society in which characters such as HW (as the very worst example) can operate may be the result.

But that’s a completely irrelevant conflation of two separate issues. Harvey Weinstein could probably have done the same thing to young men if he was gay because he’s a billionaire who held the keys to fame and fortune. See Bryan Singer.

As for commenting on your mental health, I really wasn’t, was thinking more about anger management issues. Perhaps understandable when you consider your reply

You were, just have the honesty to own up to it. Mental health/anger issues – it’s a difference without a distinction. My post was deliberately hyperbolic, owing to (imo) the absurdness of your above statement. I assumed that no one would take it literally.

More than 750 million television viewers watched the FIFA Women’s World Cup Canada 2015™, as the FIFA’s flagship women’s competition delivered all-time record viewing figures that underlined the global success of the event in a breakthrough year for women’s football.

BBC have capitalised on that and bought rights to England games, as I’d imagine they are quite cheap and thus promise a good return in terms of viewer numbers compared to other options.

Sure they are a small percentage now, but year on year that will increase. At which point does it become an issue? 10%, 20%?

Surely the amount of people who feel trapped in the wrong body is roughly the same as it always has been, it’s just that you’re aware of them now. I’d be happy to sacrifice a bit of sporting glory if it brings down the frankly shocking suicide rates currently seen in the trans community. Or is the integrity of sporting gender rules more important than people’s actual lives?

Bingo.

Being well intentioned doesn’t mean something is correct.

I have no idea, you’re the one making assertions, not me. I’m trying to ascertain whether there’s any foundation to it or whether you’re just making shit up. What rules are you afraid will change? Name one?

There are different ways to be transgender, this may or may not involve surgery or hormone therapy. You can just live as a woman socially and be considered transgender.

There are no standard set of rules for trans people in sport. It varies from sport to sport and even levels within sport. Some require testosterone testing and limits on the amount within the body, some don’t. Some require complete reassignment and certification, some don’t. It is a reasonable prediction that in time rules will change and become more relaxed again as they have already in the last couple of years.

It will really become interesting if people born male who have transitioned socially but in no other way are allowed to compete in womens sports. They are women after all aren’t they?

Surely the amount of people who feel trapped in the wrong body is roughly the same as it always has been, it’s just that you’re aware of them now. I’d be happy to sacrifice a bit of sporting glory if it brings down the frankly shocking suicide rates currently seen in the trans community. Or is the integrity of sporting gender rules more important than people’s actual lives?

Yes, I did clarify above that I meant the percentage was relating to those participating in sports not growth in overall population which would remain consistant. The suicide rates are depressingly high, are people killing themselves because they can’t play in womens sports? What about the women who were born women but will lose out? Are their needs not important?

Do you have a number for the amount of trans people participating in sport as women?

And what about the number of trans people participating as men?

It will really become interesting if people born male who have transitioned socially but in no other way are allowed to compete in womens sports. They are women after all aren’t they?

I’m not transphobic but……..

The line has to be drawn somewhere, because otherwise women’s sport would cease to exist for anyone. The best solution (IME) would be categorisation in the Paralympics, things like testosterone limits would end up in the same mess as EPO era cycling.

Jimjam, I’m not going to comment on you telling me that I’m too dishonest to say what I really think. It really doesn’t matter to me. I will say though that I think it speaks volumes that here you are, a man (I’m guessing), telling me, a woman, what I was really saying. Speaks volumes.

Perhaps we can agree on the fact that we both think that the other person talks absolute sh”te and agree to disagree on everything else.

It will really become interesting if people born male who have transitioned socially but in no other way are allowed to compete in womens sports. They are women after all aren’t they?

You’re way behind the times, the IOC changed their rules in 2016 to sort this out. Female to male – no restriction, male to female need to be able to demonstrate a testosterone level below a cut off point.