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  • Time for a 'climbing style' disclaimer in mountain biking courses?
  • TimothyD
    Free Member

    I can remember reading about how after the company which was Black Diamond under a previous incarnation was sued by the lawyer friends of somebody who’d died after not using their harness properly, that started warnings appearing about how ‘serious injury or death’ can occur when climbing and mountaineering being put onto gear, sometimes with words along the lines of ‘even when doing everything right’ added for emphasis.

    Is it time for similar disclaimers to be included in mountain biking courses?

    Reading this has got me thinking.
    http://singletrackworld.com/2016/11/mtb-instructor-loses-court-case-over-paralysed-student/

    IIRC. A climbing instructor was found not to be at fault following the injuring of a client while they were learning to lead climb – or some kind of climbing of a similarly risky nature.

    TimothyD
    Free Member

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    Is it time for similar disclaimers to be included in mountain biking courses?

    Or just something saying, ‘mountain biking is dangerous, if you get hurt, tough – that’s just how it is’?

    I don’t see that there’s a problem with people having a right to legal redress if the instructor is negligent, because essentially, when you’re in that situation, you’re paying them – along with other stuff – to make judgements on what’s an acceptable risk.

    Do you want a scenario where an instructor could tell a novice to ride off a six-foot drop to flat and then be absolved of any responsibility?

    I’m not saying that’s remotely what happened in the case you reference and yes, it’s an extreme example, but surely common sense is that students are made aware that what they’re doing is potentially dangerous, but retain a right to legal redress if the instructor is reckless or negligent?

    What constitutes negligence is a different thing, but do you want a scenario where the instructor’s actions are covered by a blanket denial of responsibility? I doubt it would hold much water legally in any case.

    ampthill
    Full Member

    I think you’ll find that in the case that you site above the disclaimer had no affect at all.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Pointing out clearly that mountain biking is a sport still carries the risk of serious injury or even death even when you are under competent instruction seems like a wholly sensible approach.

    It doesn’t absolve the instructor/centre of any responsibility for negligence.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Is it really something that has come up much for MTB courses?

    “Negligence” would be (I’m my opinion) failing to take actions to prevent unnecessary risks, or communication of potential risks as far as is reasonably practicable or foreseeable…

    A failed (instructor supplied) harness or rope on a climbing course is probably quite a different scenario to most incidents that might occur on a MTB course, where participants will mostly be responsible for their own equipment, is it practicable for instructors to inspect participants helmets, brakes and tyres for adequate performance? Probably, but do they? I doubt it…

    An MTB skills course should be booked on the basis of the riders own assessment of their ability, comfort zone and what they are looking to work on. Do many people who tend to prefer blues, book themselves on to advanced DH skills courses operated on black runs?

    The decision to ride any trail feature will still be the participants own, under advisement from the instructor.

    Prior discussions/correspondence of the course content, riders own ability, required equipment and trail gradings (ideally documented/recorded), plus a formal risk assessment maybe, should serve to highlight risks adequately enough to demonstrate the instructor was not negligent.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Actually the case that the OP linked highlights the point about adequate risk assessment.

    When the group met up in a car park before the tragedy, he appeared to have made no assessment of each student’s cycling skills.

    original report

    The fact that the instructor was a former teacher compounded the issue, because he will have been trained to conduct proper planning, risk assessment and recording as part of his previous job, and then probably once again when being certified as an instructor…

    And then a solicitor got severely injured. A bit of boring paperwork and a couple of emails could have saved him £4 million quid…

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    a former teacher compounded the issue, because he will have been trained to conduct proper planning, risk assessment and recording as part of his previous job

    This may be the nub of the problem, invariably the training makes teachers too risk averse or unable to assess risk correctly at all. (Previous experience with H&S in a peripatetic advisory role).

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