I’ve seen a lot of Bird Bike threads pop up recently and they have been on my radar for a while now. Looking at a Zero AM frame.

I currently have a 2016 Stumpy FSR Comp with a few upgrades (Hope wheels, Marz 350NCR etc).

However, I’ve never really bonded with the bike and I’m not sure if full sus is really for me.

How many of you have gone back to a hard tail as your “go to” bike? I’m thinking I may get a frame and swap all my bits over and just sell the Stumpy as a frame only.

For reference, I’ve had an On One Inbred and a Voodoo Hoodoo (pretty much everything upgraded). The Hoodoo was awesome with Zee groupset, SLX Brakes and a Fox 32 factory fork.

No one want to weight in? 🙂

Wife seems happy for me to try it as she knows I’ve never really gelled with the Stumpy.

I’d need to get the frame with headset and a bottom bracket/crank as I won’t be able to transfer those bits.

Is the stumpy your first FS? If so I’d say try some other FS bikes rather than rule them out..
What is it that you don’t like about the way the stumpy rides?

Yeah, it’s my first FS. I find the rear shock difficult to set up to my liking.

Back end feels wallowy and seems to blow through it’s travel too easily. It’s not as though I can even try different shocks for a reasonable price (stupid proprietary mount).

Also, I’m quite aggressive when accelerating and it makes the bike feel muted.

That’s the best explanation I can do, it’s quite hard to put into words really. Just don’t feel like it’s the bike for me.

Had it since around October and never been totally happy.

I’ve been exclusively riding HTs for about 18 months now, and my FS didn’t see much use for about 9 months before that.

Not to say I won’t go back to a FS but I’m liking hardtails for now.

Cheers for the input Breadcrumb. Once I’d swapped all my Inbred components over to my old Hoodoo, I really enjoyed it.

I just assumed that FS was a natural upgrade path. Wife upgraded from a Carrera Kraken to a Cube Sting WLS 140 and she loves hers.

Way I see it, I can’t think of anywhere I’ve ridden where a hardtail wouldn’t be able to go.

Id give tf tuned a call and see what they can do..they can probably sort the shock out for you with a tune to suit you and your riding.
I had the same issues on the stock shock on my anthem.. I replaced it with a tf tuned shock set up for me..which transformed the ride..

I did look into sending it to TF, but I’ve been told that there’s not much you can do with the Fox Evo CTD apart from volume spacers, possibly one of those Vorsprung Corset sleeves.

Originally I was going to get it push tuned, but apparently it’s not possible on this model of shock.

I think you’re on the right track though with the feel. Small changes aren’t too expensive, but they start adding up when you do a few 🙂

The other thing I want to try is a different rear tyre. The current one is a Purg Control. I think the Control casing is too soft.

For reference, I’m 6’2″ and just over 15st. I weighed about 18st when I got the bike.

I did, I replaced an Orange 5 with a Soul.

I did not ride fast enough (Endro enough!) to get the same enjoyment, other than on what I consider fairly extreme downs. Absolutely nothing wrong with the 5 but the Soul is a better match to my style of riding.

Of course, the correct answer is to sell wife’s bike and have both!

Chris

Shh Chris! She might be looking over my shoulder 🙂

I must admit, I do like the odd Rocky descent with drop offs etc. From the feedback I’ve got, I think it’s the rear setup that I’m not happy with.

I would like to try a Zero AM one day, but I think I may have found a shock that fits at a decent price. Got a little bonus at work coming up, so I might just go for this and see how I get on.

http://www.tredz.co.uk/.RockShox-Monarch-RT3-Rear-Shock-2016_81737.htm?sku=268176

I don’t think you’ll see much of an improvement with that shock or most off the shelf shocks.
Your a heavy rider like me, I had the same problems as you described.
Id personally save your money and invest in a tftuned shock when you can afford it.
I think you’ll be more pleased with the performance.
In the meantime try a volume spacer..

Way I see it, I can’t think of anywhere I’ve ridden where a hardtail wouldn’t be able to go.

Sounds like things I’ve said but followed up with ” but the fs is more fun”

Take a look at shock tune but the only logical answer is n+1

I seem to change bikes every two years or so. Full sus / hardtail / fully rigid etc…. I wouldn’t get too hung up on the whole full sus thing.

I’d give volume spacers a go personally http://www.mojostore.co.uk/volume-tuning-kits-c102x2817089
they not too expensive and are really easy to fit
have a look at this http://www.mojo.co.uk/air-spacers

it worked wonders on my mates bike when he had a similar problem to you.

Cheers for all the replies so far. This feels like therapy 🙂

The shock tune is out as I’ve been told that the Fox Evo CTD can’t be tuned. I’ll try the volume spacers first and speak to TF about my options.

N+1 is a real possibility further down the line though. It was originally reserved for a Cyclocross. Thinking something different than what I have.

Rear tyre is on the cards for certain. I think that will improve things. I’m sure once I get it spot on, I’ll be happy. Just a bit frustrating at the moment.

Sorry when I say shock tune I meant instead of buying the rockshox rt3, buy a new upgraded shock from tftuned and have that tuned..

My five frame came with a EVO CTD, I didn’t even use it. Took it straight off and replaced it with a CCDB CS from tftuned.

Cheers Goldigger, I’m going to contact them tomorrow to see what they can get. Shock choices are limited due to the proprietary fitting that Specialized have.

Trying not to spend megabucks just in case it doesn’t work out.

I think Avalanche do a cartridge for the Evo CTD shock? Could be as expensive as a new one though… Doesn’t it make a difference on that shock whether you have it in c t or d when setting sag etc, think it’s supposed to be in d mode?

As above the correct answer is n+1…. In your case as the new frame has been cleared by head office just bore her with all the different bike standards and sizes and point out how much more logical and cost effective it is just to buy a whole new bike! Those bird zeros are lovely…

Hey Nick,

I have set the sag both manually and with the Autosag (always in D). On the WMB review, they did mention having to run it firmer than most shocks.

I’m lucky really, as she is into it as much as me anyway, so it’s easy to get her onboard 🙂

I can never decide what I want and I can’t justify two full bikes at the moment so I have a Norco Range Killer B-1 frame and a 2016 DMR trailstar frame that I swap components between. I love a hardtail but I know after a while I’ll wish I had my full suss, then after a while I’ll want my hardtail back again…

The DMR is favourite at the moment, if i get to a point that I can gather enough parts I think I’ll build the DMR as 650b+ and have the two full bikes.

I’ve had a few hardtails that didn’t last long with me (Stanton Switchback, Ragley Blue Pig) but I think the DMR will stay!

I know what you mean. I had a Spesh Enduro and never really gelled with the back end, for the same reasons as you really. It was plush, but a bit too plush for out of the seat sprints etc and I could never seem to find the right balance between it being too firm or too soft and blowing through its travel. Using the CTD lever helped, and was a necessity really, but the “last straw” really was racing it at the Marin and having it wallowing on me mid-stage where reaching down to lock it out isn’t really a viable option.

That said, it did respond better to having the rebound run very fast and with quite a low amount of sag. I never tried any volume spacers or an air sleeve but they may help.

I ended up changing to an Alpine 160 and it is night and day better. Granted, the standard shock tune is shocking 🙂 but some volume reducers helped with that. Even without the reducers though I didn’t (and still don’t) ever need to lock it out unless I’m on the road. OK, you lose some plushness over the FSR linkage but not much.

Advice?

I’m not a fan of the FSR linkage, I don’t think I’d get another, but you could, relatively and comparatively cheaply, try some rear can tuning.

I like the single pivot design but it needs careful fettling also. I’d try one to see what you think.

I have a hardtail. It’s great. As an only bike? Not sure.

DW Link and VPP designs are definitely worth trying. DW Link on an Ibis HD3 is the benchmark of any bike I’ve ridden.

Hi Snorkelsucker,

That pretty much sums it up for me. I’ll try the volume reducers first, then if that doesn’t help, it looks like I’ll be looking for a new frame.

It’s cornering where I can feel the back end wallowing. Pretty unnerving when you’re taking a fast berm!

The question is, will I miss FS if I get a Bird Zero? I’ve always wanted an Orange 5 though, but not got a lot of cash at moment.

I’d have to subsidise the purchase with the sale of my current frame and maybe the original Rev that came with the bike. It’s a bloody minefield 🙂

It’s hard to say whether you would miss a FS if you got a hardtail. I’m lucky enough to have both; I built up a £40 frame (on one inbred) last spring and for general trail use it’s a blast. I’ve actually done an uplift on it too.

There are loads of great HT frames that you could opt for and possibly save a bit of cash in the process. If your riding style / location suits one then I doubt you’d miss a FS too much.

If your back end feels wallowy, I’d also check your frame bearings. Mine were dead after 6 months or so and some are properly small which is great for small bump sensitivity but not great for longevity.

If money is tight then I’d suggest sticking with your current frame, play about with the pressure and rebound and maybe look at a cheap-ish shock tune. In the meantime, see if you can rent a hardtail (where do you live? I know a place near Llandegla that rent Bird Zeros). I’d also try and get to some demo days if you can and try different suspension setups.

I think its already been said, but something I did do on my Spesh that helped a bit was to re-set the shock pressure / sag in fully open mode. Obvious I know but running it firmer in this setting gave a little bit better result in terms of all-terrain setup.

Oh yes, also just read above about the AutoSag. Completely pointless for anyone other than a beginner. It gets you there / thereabouts but you really need to fine-fettle for yourself.

I’d try pressure in the shock and get 15-20% sag in descent mode. I’d then stick the rebound all the way round to fastest and get rid of maybe 3 clicks from there. Have a play from there in 5psi increments and a couple of clicks rebound. You should get it to a point where its poppy rather than skittish and just about firm enough to sprint without wallowing.

Cheers for taking the time to advise me on setting it up. I think the bearings are fine as there is no play or noise coming from them.

I’ll give all your suggestions a go before writing the bike off. It maybe a simple case of getting it set up right. I’ll have a mess about tonight and get out on it on Sunday.

I live in a town called Leigh (near Wigan). One of the closest places to me is Lee/Crag Quarry. I’ll probably head there on Sunday and have a play with the settings.

I used to have an Inbred that I built up myself. It was an enjoyable bike, but the Voodoo frame that I replaced it with felt a lot better 🙂 Really miss that bike.

I ditched my full suss last year and so far haven’t missed it.

I’ve ridden bouncy bikes for ages and kind of got dragged into the AM/enduro bike thing. I swapped my aging SX Trail for a Banshee Rune which was an incredible bike – it climbed well and was a blast on descents. I loved it, and was really happy with it as my only bike. I used it for long XC rides in Swaledale to uplift days at Antur and BPW.

I also had an XS BFe that I used as a jump bike. I rode this (well tried) at Cannock and had a blast on it so decided that I wanted a bigger hardtail that could be used for mucking about and trail riding. I ended up with a 16 inch Slackline 853 which I feel in love with. As the summer of 2014 wore on I rode it more and more but it was just too small. Last January I built up 18 inch Switchback. This relegated my Rune to garage queen. The Rune was brilliant on a trip to Scotland last April but after that I never really enjoyed riding it. The thing that swung it for me was a trip to CYB; I took the Rune and sent the day wishing I was on my hardtail. So, the back end of last year I sold both frames and bought a Ti Switchback. So far, I’m really happy only having a hardtail. I don’t feel like I’ve lost out for the stuff I normally ride (Cannock, CYB, ‘Degla, Hopton etc). I don’t feel much slower and the guys I ride with aren’t leaving me behind.

Thanks for sharing that mindmap. I think I’ll see what I can do with the current shock, but I’m not holding much hope.

Maybe I’ll put a Zero AM together in a few months and see how I get on before I decided to sell the Stumpy or not. Still got the original parts that I replaced, so I could get it back to standard pretty quick.

Maybe I’ll put a Zero AM together in a few months and see how I get on before I decided to sell the Stumpy or not. Still got the original parts that I replaced, so I could get it back to standard pretty quick.

If you can buy the Bird without selling the Stumpy, it’s not a bad way to see what you thnk plus it gives you a fall back if you hate it. I’d have been nervous about selling the Rune and got back to a hardtail, but having both let me choose in my own time.

I think that’s the current plan. It’s going to be a few months off though. I reckon I’ll need a crank and bottom bracket in addition to the frame.

Rest of parts should transfer over.

While I’m saving, I can see if I can improve the feel of the back end 🙂

Oh and I got a reply from TF Tuned. As I expected, there’s nothing they can do with my shock…. for a few months. They are releasing a Push Tune for the Evo CTD shocks!

Way I see it, I can’t think of anywhere I’ve ridden where a hardtail wouldn’t be able to go.

You will be slower, you won’t be able to stick it in turns as hard, and it won’t grip as well. But there’s something ever so ace about a well set up HT that you’ll never get from a FS.

To be fair nic, I can’t stick my current bike into turns because of it’s wobbly arse 🙂

At 15 stone, I’d definitely recommend volume spacers in the fox shock.

I’m a magnificently proportioned gentleman just like yourself and they sorted my shock right out

I started reading that and thought it was going to finish “I’d recommend losing weight 🙂

Volume spacers are going to be tried too! I’ll try anything as I really want to like the bike.

And I’m quite a fit 15st 😉 Fitter than last years 18st 6lbs!