Really doesn’t sit right.

I was under the impression / deluded into thinking that pro cycling had kinda turned a corner with the rise of the newer younger generation.

But really, has anything actually changed?

Do we just accept that the show is simply that and the sporting element has been lost, (also applicable to various other endurance based sports too), or do we just continue as normal believing, despite the historic and current evidence, that this time it might be true.

I feel this post could have been written at 4 different intervals during my lifetime and been equally applicable each time.

Well when you have a Directeur sportif like Astana have… it’s never going to end well…

I read about it yesterday, and was a bit confused weather these were new findings/allegations or a new in depth report about 2010/11.

Granted, most of the people who are implicated are still active and should be banned, but I’m not entirely sure that new beginning is ruined yet.

It is a sorry mess. Much the same story over at Tinkoff Saxo too. Is hard to stomach seeing the likes of Riis and Vino running two of the biggest teams in the peloton (and Nibali, Contador, Sagan, etc. all being tainted by association.) Worse than Armstrong IMO.

inner ring has a good write up, basically Astana cant be denied a licence based on the current rules. Start compliaining that the rules are wrong.

If they ban them then they will get back in through CAS process (see Katusha)

The findings themselves are old, however the release of the names is new, (so I understand it).

The allegations of recent dealings with Ferrari are new too.

Yeah the Inner Ring piece was excellent and level headed as always, but really, what actually is the point of having an ethical criteria in the application process if this debacle is anything to go by?

Does seem a bit of a vicious circle of sponsorship too. UCI need Pro Tour cycling teams. Pro Tour cycling teams need a lot of cash. Dubious organisations/people like Astana and Tinkoff are willing to put up the cash and don’t seem to care about reputations or bad press. Now if I was looking to spend some sponsorship money I’d not want to invest in a sport where I could be associated with such teams and characters. So you don’t have a rush of sponsors willing to come in and back teams to replace the ones you could possibly get rid of if there was an alterantive 😕

I think its very disappointing that they’ve retained their World Tour licence. This was an opportunity for the UCI to make a stand, but I guess if they can’t be denied a licence then they didn’t have a choice. Although if thats the case I’m not sure what all the ‘a decision will be made this week’ stuff was about.

I wouldn’t trust any of that team, led by Vinokourov what hope do they have.

Have things changed? Yes.

Are there still problems? Yes.

I reckon that there are now plenty of riders not cheating (and I hope the majority) but still plenty who still stick to the old ways but just using less effective methods than in the past (because the passport will pick up blatant abuse).

The good news is that Astana have been caught out 5 times. The bad news is that the UCI processes aren’t yet up to date in allowing them to be thrown out. That said, there’s a good chance that they could still be closed down or, shock horror, they could be forced to race clean because they have no other choice… Nibbles’ performances this year are going to be under massive scrutiny.

they could be forced to race clean because they have no other choice… Nibbles’ performances this year are going to be under massive scrutiny.

Either that or extend the services reserved for the top riders to more of the domestiques to make sure they don’t get caught.

Astana: In

Europcar: Out

Welcome to the new cycling.

Nice one, Brian. 🙄

Did you read that inner ring article. IMO he didn’t have any choice. What really matters is that Astana either don’t race (fingers crossed) or do but are forced to do so (as near as dammit) clean.

And then the UCI review their procedures and stop this happening next year.

Yeh the Europcar thing says its down to them not meeting financial requirements.

But you’re right it doesn’t put the UCI in a good light at all.

It’s not like Europcar are whiter than white!

Nice one, Brian.

Have some sympathy for his position. Test is what he does about the rules that currently prevent the UCI doing what everyone thinks they should do.

thing is, the financial requirements are supposed to be there to avoid the riders getting shafted by teams that can’t really afford to pay them. IMO this is a good thing.

Agree though, in the context of Astana and if you don’t really understand the detail it does look bad though…

Do Eurocar really need World Tour status?

Its a given that they’ll get invited to the Tour and Paris Nice to what else does it need?

Possibly true though it affects the team’s prestige which doesn’t help with future sponsorship. It also means that they’re likely to get less prize money should they not be at all the big races.

How is it that a sport and governing body that has been so badly riddled with these issues in the past don’t have rules that allow them to ban teams that partake?

It’s incompetence of the highest order, an utter shambles of a situation where only now people are sitting around scratching their heads regarding rules that should have been in place for years.

The people responsible for it should lose their positions, lazy, reactionary bollocks.

God forbid the sports bodies should become pro-active. How utterly unattractive this makes pro cycling (again)

Have some sympathy for his position. Test is what he does about the rules that currently prevent the UCI doing what everyone thinks they should do.

What have they done about it since 2012/13 when they were in the same position with Katusha?

They did get in a fit about some women’s kit a few months back, though. So they must be doing something…

The people responsible for it should lose their positions, lazy, reactionary bollocks.

Google Pat McQuaid and Hein Verbruggen.

The Inrng article (here) does explain it very well.

Europcar is a different thing all together, they basically don’t have the money. However, they will get a TdF and a Paris-Nice invite so I suspect they won’t be overly concerned.

Technically, Astana only had two positives and the development squad is different in the eyes of the (UCI) law. Same as other teams so on that basis the UCI know a refusal wouldn’t stand up at CAS.

However, the whole thing is entirely befitting of Vino and the Kazakh approach to ‘rules’. One of the most depressing sporting sights I can remember is seeing Vino sprinting up the Mall at the Olympics. Did Nibali really believe he was walking into a clean team with him at the helm? Come off it.

Did Nibali really believe he was walking into a clean team with him at the helm? Come off it.

My thoughts exactly.

Did Nibali really believe he was walking into a clean team with him at the helm?

If there was ever a team most likely to dope, it has to be Astana. A team led by Vinokourov who was sacked from the team as a rider for blood doping. Quite incredible. And the list of Astana old boys is terrifying – Armstrong, Bruyneel, Contador, Leipheimer, Kessler, Kreuziger. You’d have to be naive beyond belief to think this was a good team to join if you wanted to ride clean.

Having just yesterday finished Tyler Hamilton’s book, and having also read most of the others, I can’t see how there could be a scenario where Astana are doping in isolation. If they were then they’d be wiping up all the podiums, which the aren’t. Inference therefore surely is that if they are doing it and are on a levelish playing field, all the main competitors are still at it as well ?

If they were then they’d be wiping up all the podiums, which the aren’t.

I think that may be a little to blatant even for Astana. Riders aren’t constantly doped, they’ll do it in the run up to certain events. They’re not in a doped state all season.

Riders aren’t constantly doped, they’ll do it in the run up to certain events. They’re not in a doped state all season

I appreciate that, but even so, I’d have thought that they would have better results overall if they had that 3-6 % gain over the peleton in those events, which leads me to believe that they are still all at it, sadly..

inner ring has a good write up, basically Astana cant be denied a licence based on the current rules. Start compliaining that the rules are wrong.

If they ban them then they will get back in through CAS process (see Katusha)
And the CAS case will cost the UCI ca 1million euros – because they will most likely lose. The UCI have to follow their own disciplinary procedure to take away the license.

It seems the UCI have Astana on probation, the license was awarded before the CONI report leak yesterday. Now the UCI need to get the CONI report officially; depending upon the lawyers view of that (I’m guessing) they should then be able to sanction the teams involved. So it shouldn’t just be Astana but also Katusha and others.

Whilst Vino has a dirty past the Katusha general manager, one Viacheslav Ekimov, was Lance’s right hand man. So he’s obviously renowned for his clean and ethical behaviour.

I like Nibali. His wins at this years TdF in Sheffield and on the cobbles were breath-taking. He’s one hell of a bike rider. But…. I said on here that it seemed beyond belief that he was dropping the world on his wife on all the mountain top finishes and appeared to be hardly out of breath at the finish. Sure they were astute enough not to make it blatant but it just seemed a bit too easy – notwithstanding Froom and Berty crashing out.

He also had the biggest winning time gap for 17 years by the time they got to Paris. Guess who won that one… Mr Ulrich.

Who knows who’s at it. Depressing but I am sure come the Spring Classics, I’ll feel more optimistic!

Whilst Vino has a dirty past the Katusha general manager, one Viacheslav Ekimov, was Lance’s right hand man. So he’s obviously renowned for his clean and ethical behaviour.

Plus Astana are effectively sponsored by the Kazakhstani government, which is admired throughout the world for its probity, respect for human rights and lack of corruption.

Sure they were astute enough not to make it blatant but it just seemed a bit too easy

Yeah I was hoping that Nibbles had stuck to his no-doping stance but then earlier his wingman Agnoli complains of the team separating him from Nibali, not doing the same training etc….

I’ve seen this recurring pattern before. Lance freezes manager (was it Ochowitz) out of USPS brings in the ‘clean’ Bruyneel…

It’s depressing isn’t it?

But the UCI still have the opportunity to sort it out so we’ll have to be patient I suppose.

Still don’t think nibbles was definitely at it during the tour but the jury is getting further and further out on him.

Would be nice to hear some words from him but you can sort of see why that might not be the pragmatic option.

See I thought Nibbles was clean. Yes, he won by a long way, yes he flew up the mountains but his 2 closest rivals were out of the race so there is an argument you should compare his times to the differences between 1st and 4th in other races.

However, the longer this debacle goes on, the more my suspicions rise. If Astana were serious about these being exceptions, they would remove Eki and Vino from the management and make a clear stance on anti-doping.

Iainc – not sure it’s useful to compare the Armstrong era with current times. The drug testing was far less sophisticated then than it is now. It’s pretty unlikely that the Iglinskys would have been caught for EPO back then (unless they were really careless).

^^^ agree, but the dopers have always been a few stages ahead of the testers, technology wise, surely that remains ? It just seems to me that its unlikely to have a few teams of dopers in amongst a load of clean teams. If so then there would be bigger performance differences and despite all the traditional hush hush secrecy in the Peleton, someone form the clean side would be spilling the beans surely when not winning races fairly ?

Would be nice to hear some words from him (Nibbles) but you can sort of see why that might not be the pragmatic option.

Unfortunately the words he’s spouting are similar to those spouted by Virenque, Vino, Di Luca.
I understand that politically he might be compromised but the platitudes don’t help his case.

On the plus side they do at least store riders blood etc… for future testing when the tests catch up with the dopers.

Ahh Cookson talks

So basically Cookson is saying at the moment the committee need to play by the rules but astana will be out when new information emerges, note ‘when’ not ‘if’.

I’m determined that, in this case, we get all of our procedures correct, that we get everything lined up in the right order and we do everything correctly. When new information comes out we will look at the situation again and we will certainly be looking at the situation again.