This is pretty horrible

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  • This is pretty horrible
  • wonderchump
    Member

    So is the alternative – Death by starvation. No easy answers, which is why the world is so fecked up.

    Sui
    Member

    there’s a no win solution to this other than them not being there. (which I don’t necessarily agree with).

    “IF”, the detention was grounded, then there is only so far you should be expected to go in adhearing to religious dictate, when, they have after all surrendered their rights for criminal activity.

    All detainees in the western world, even at Guantanamo, are under the duty care of the officers running it. That means that any ill health has to be explained. If the only way to prevent ill health is to ensure that sustenance is given, then the detainers would rightly believe they have the provenance to make sure it is administered.
    Conversely, how it is administered is not always going to fit in with everyones’ beliefs.

    Lets take another scenario – MR and MRS Jahova’s Witness did not give permission for the ill child to be given a blood transfusion on the ground of religious beliefs – guess who gets involved and tells them to off? – The authorities. I bet you wouldn’t kick up a stink then..

    warton
    Member

    So is the alternative –

    release people who have not been charged with any crime, and held for 12 years?

    Let them practice Ramadan as they wish?

    patriotpro
    Member

    Prisoners in losing certain rights shocker…

    Sui
    Member

    The vast majority of these people will have been picked up in situations which called for their detention in the first place. Unfortunately “training” for holy war is not seen as an excuse to legal jail people so they are held under dubious acts. You will always be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Allow people the freedom that we all enjoy, even if that means activities that “could” lead to adverse actions, or pre-empt that possibility and remove some of that right….

    The vast majority of these people will have been picked up in situations which called for their detention in the first place.

    What, like being framed by a financially motivated informer, before being tortured until you’ll say anything to make them stop?

    Or maybe just wearing a watch

    d45yth
    Member

    Oh dear, folk being shocked at stuff like this…do you really think this is the worst of what goes on? 🙄

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Is it not shocking if you can think of something worse, then?

    Wel, it does look distressing, but inserting a feeding tube is quite a routine procedure. I’ve had it done a couplemof times. It was uncomfortable but tolerable,,but in fairness, i wasn’t struggling against it at the time. What is more shocking? Erm.. Waterboarding, electric shocks

    cranberry
    Member

    So the main point of that video is….

    Actor acts in film containing large amounts of acting.

    The only shocking thing is that some people can’t tell the truth from a fiction nicely filmed from multiple angles.

    Oh, and my dad currently has a NG tube fitted and is being fed through it. The only difference between him and the detainees at Guantanamo is that he has had cancer, and they are part of a fascist, nihilistic cancer.

    Some of them

    yossarian
    Member

    and they are part of a fascist, nihilistic cancer.

    The staff or the prisoners? Perhaps they both are, ever thought about that?

    Sui
    Member

    What, like being framed by a financially motivated informer, before being tortured until you’ll say anything to make them stop?

    no like british** passport holders being found in the middle of Afghan with no reason to be there, whilst also carrying large amounts of training aids…

    **insert other nationalities

    headfirst
    Member

    Ramadan hasn’t started yet, this is a straight forward hunger strike.
    These men should not have been held this long without trial. Try them or release them.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    …found in the middle of Afghan with no reason to be there

    Surely helping the Afghans to fight foreign invaders is a legitimate reason to be there ?

    James Bond doing his bit :

    ivornardon2
    Member

    That’s Peter O’Tool in a still from from David Lean’s “Lawrence Of Arabia”. The closest Lawrence got to Afghanistan was Kut in Iraq when he was sent to attempt to ransome thousands of Brit and Indian troops who were under seige by the Ottoman Turks.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    It’s Timothy Dalton in ‘The Living Daylights’

    Not really James Bond 🙂

    Yeah, but that IS Omar Sharif on the right, isn’t it?

    toys19
    Member

    Cougar sort this thread out pleeeeeeeze.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    headfirst – Member

    Ramadan hasn’t started yet, this is a straight forward hunger strike.
    These men should not have been held this long without trial. Try them or release them.

    Yup. Ramadan is a non-issue here, jailing people for years without trial or any intent to try them is.

    enfht
    Member

    I agree, that was awful.

    Ian Brady is also being force fed but that still doesn’t make him a victim.

    Maybe the actor in the video should have volunteered for a Jihadist beheading to better understand how that feels too.

    There’s alot of assumed guilt in this thread… wonder if that has anything to do with conditioning by the media?

    You are more likely to be killed by the police or a bee sting than a terrorist, yet somehow thanks to aforementioned media coverage, terrorists are a constant perceived threat.

    Yep, thats hate week and newspeak covered and thanks to Snowden, we know Big Brother is for real… Orwell was on the money.

    crikey
    Member

    That’s a poor piece of propaganda, however righteous the reason.

    I insert NG tubes at work, and many, many people across the UK will have them inserted in hospitals over today and over this week. As a procedure it’s a bit unpleasant, but not as bad as is being made out.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Yeah just gloss over the fact that Ian Brady received a fair trial and was convicted, and these people haven’t.

    Are people generally sedated whilst having it done in hospital?

    Also, is it against their will?

    Wonder how many Muslims have been killed by drones today…

    headfirst
    Member

    The difference, enfht, to make it crystal clear, has been proven to be an evil sadistic bastard by a court of law and so is rightfully incarcerated. The guantanamo detainees are in jail, well worse actually, and have never been anywhere near a court.

    Can you see the difference?

    Haven’t the majority of them also suffered torture deemed illegal under international law in order to coerce statements?

    mrmoofo
    Member

    The difference, enfht, to make it crystal clear, has been proven to be an evil sadistic bastard by a court of law and so is rightfully incarcerated. The guantanamo detainees are in jail, well worse actually, and have never been anywhere near a court.

    Have watched the emotive film – but this is the point. They have not had a trial and don’t seem to have any hope of getting one in the near future.

    If they are terrorists and assassins, let the evidence be heard … then the US can legitimately hold them.

    Or maybe they don’t have a watertight case / confessions came from torture?

    crikey
    Member

    Are people generally sedated whilst having it done in hospital?

    No, usually not.

    Also, is it against their will?

    No, it is something that is explained and a form of verbal consent is usually obtained.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    jivehoneyjive they have been kept in conditions illegal under US law, never mind international law. That’s why the US government has gone to so much trouble to keep them beyond the jurisdiction of US courts.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    ernie_lynch – Member

    Yeah just gloss over the fact that Ian Brady received a fair trial and was convicted, and these people haven’t.

    Pff, they’re guilty, everyone knows that. They wouldn’t be in prison otherwise would they?

    Thank you Mr Lynch, finally something we can agree on 😀

    These are the reasons I have such contempt for ‘official’ stories, especially in cases which further the polarizing of opinion and fuel the false perception of a terrorist threat in order to justify wars and weapons sales.

    ninfan
    Member

    Point of order – both Suffragettes and IRA hunger strikers have been force fed in British prisons without being convicted of any crimes.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    IRA hunger strikers weren’t convicted of any crimes ? 😕

    EDIT : They weren’t forced fed btw. Which explains why Bobby Sands died.

    enfht
    Member

    They’ve already removed the chaff. The Guardian are somehow painting those who remain as innocent victims which is a pathetic joke.

    Can I enquire as to your views on drone casualties enfht?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    They’ve already removed the chaff. The Guardian are somehow painting those who remain as innocent victims which is a pathetic joke.

    Genuinely interested to see some evidence or a link to back that up. I assume it’s out there somewhere?

    Premier Icon slowoldgit
    Subscriber

    I have one of those watches. Should I be very, very worried?

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