The woman who tragically died in Dent on the LEtJOG ride…

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  • The woman who tragically died in Dent on the LEtJOG ride…
  • …was she wearing a helmet?

    I can’t find any reports that make this clear.

    Very, very sad event. She was only 40 years old.

    RIP

    Premier Icon terrahawk
    Subscriber

    does it matter if she was/wasn’t wearing a helmet though?

    Jamie
    Member

    What a strange thread.

    julianwilson
    Member

    I am sure it will matter to knee-jerk local crappy paper. Whether or not the poor lady died of complications of a low-ish-speed impact to her head is another thing though. 🙁

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    What a strange thread.

    My thoughts exactly when I opened it this morning. Was going to reply, but thought against it.

    I’m not quite sure what the intended outcome of this thread is?

    STW overeaction again.

    There is no expected outcome to this thread. I asked a question – I wasn’t lighting any touch papers and I certainly was not being disrespectful.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    Given that helmet-wearing is pretty controversial, and the news reports say that she sustained serious head injuries, it should be made clear if she was or wasn’t wearing a helmet.
    A few years ago when I lived in Cambridge, the newspaper reported the death of a woman who got knocked off her bike. I know for a fact she never wore a helmet (I’d see her every day as rode to work), yet the paper said she dies of head injuries and didn’t mention the helmet.

    Sad for her and her family all the same.

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Sometimes the police/ambulance press person will make the point of telling reporters about lack of helmet wearing, other times not.

    Few reporters will think to ask the question – and if their editor prompts them to follow it up the information will possibly not be available without checking with the officer/paramedic at the scene – who will probably be off duty.

    Just saying, in case anyone thought there was a consipiracy of silence on the subject or anything like that.

    Premier Icon ransos
    Subscriber

    Overall, there aren’t many cycle accidents where wearing a helmet is the difference between life and death. So not mentioning what is likely to be an irrelevance in this tragedy isn’t really worth debating.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    there aren’t many cycle accidents where wearing a helmet is the difference between life and death

    But there are some. And often through no fault of the cyclist.
    So why not encourage people to save their own lives and wear one?

    beanieripper
    Member

    not this sh1t again, ir_bandito put a lid on it will you…

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    irbandito – 10 a year is the CTC estimate if everyone wore helmets

    cynic-al
    Member

    That’s 10 lives.

    You can’t put a price on that.

    hugor
    Member

    Lets suppose the law is changed and everybody is required to wear a helmet. If 5 cyclists a year are saved from life threatening head injuries would that be worth it? In my mind yes.
    The NHS spends millions every year to use newer and safer medication which in the end only actually save a few people per year compared to older ones.
    How many people die as a result of wearing a helmet?

    nonk
    Member

    i think ten is a lot.

    fourbanger
    Member

    Edit: Edit: RIP cyclist. 🙁

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    hugor – Member

    Lets suppose the law is changed and everybody is required to wear a helmet. If 5 cyclists a year are saved from life threatening head injuries would that be worth it? In my mind yes.
    The NHS spends millions every year to use newer and safer medication which in the end only actually save a few people per year compared to older ones.
    How many people die as a result of wearing a helmet?

    200 more people would die from lack of exercise as they gave up cycling. thats the CTC position from looking at the evidence.

    compulsory helmets cost lives

    http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5339

    RDL-82
    Member

    200 people really need to get over themselves then, it’s only a helmet ffs we are not out to pull

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    200 people really need to get over themselves then, it’s only a helmet ffs we are not out to pull

    LOL

    crikey
    Member

    God, it’s like Groundhog Day…

    When we’ve got compulsory helmets for cyclists, will we make them compulsory for the consumption of alcohol, seeing as how a significant number of head injuries are caused when people are drunk?

    Or car drivers, who suffer a number of head injuries?

    Or children, especially those who are at risk of being physically abused; significant number get head injuries…

    And maybe before we make them compulsory, we could have some actual definitive evidence that they work, because the life saving potential of an inch of polystyrene would seem to be currently somewhat overstated.

    Consider too that no helmet manufacturer has ever ever ever been sued, even in the US, when someone has ended up with a head injury while wearing a helmet.

    Rather than trying to make protection compulsory, lets look at changing drivers behaviour, or is that too complex for us to even consider?

    As you were…

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    I’m a Paramedic. Trust me, you should wear a helmet. Voice of experience here.

    crikey
    Member

    Oh yes, do carry on making political capital out of someones death, I’m sure it’s what she would have wanted… 🙄

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    v8ninety – you don’t trump crikey -nor the actual evidence

    crikey
    Member

    I’m an ITU nurse of 23 years, and I’m not convinced.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    v8ninety – Member

    I’m a Paramedic. Trust me, you should wear a helmet. Voice of experience here.

    I mean no offence, but a surprising number of medical professionals told me my helmet saved my life when I had my big road crash, even though I wasn’t wearing one.

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    I have worked in neuro ITU and neuro rehab ( a bit) Seen more drinking head injuries than cyclist ones – many more.

    bullheart
    Member

    Sometimes this place is like an arsehole convention…

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    200 more people would die from lack of exercise as they gave up cycling. thats the CTC position from looking at the evidence.

    Bollocks. If you’re so vain that you give up cycling because you have to wear a helmet, you’re not going to become a fat bloater, you’ll find some other way to exercise.

    crikey
    Member

    Lol at Northwind, classic stuff.

    I’m not anti helmet, just bought yet another, had one of the first Spesh Sub Sixes in the country back in the day, but it’s so much more complex than helmet = no head injury or No helmet = certain deathy/disability.

    Unfortunately people like soundbites rather than plowing through reams of data.

    cynic-al
    Member

    LOLLERCOPTERS @ Northwind

    crikey –
    Member
    God, it’s like Groundhog Day…

    Just another day on stw…

    MrSynthpop
    Member

    200 more people would die from lack of exercise as they gave up cycling. thats the CTC position from looking at the evidence.

    Bollocks. If you’re so vain that you give up cycling because you have to wear a helmet, you’re not going to become a fat bloater, you’ll find some other way to exercise.

    Agree – every time I see those CTC figures I cringe, nothing to do with the helmet debate but its painful that on the one hand they demand the highest standards for data in favour of helmet prescription but on the other are quite happy to make this statement based on a limited body of study.

    Actually given helmets increase drag, weight and perspiration surely we could aggregate up the health benefit of all that extra effort across cyclists and prove that mandatory helmet use would save lives through enhanced cardio workouts? 🙂

    Still not in favour of prescription however.

    And edited to add my sympathy for the poor lady who died, which was the reason I started to read the thread in the first place

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Agree – every time I see those CTC figures I cringe, nothing to do with the helmet debate but its painful that on the one hand they demand the highest standards for data in favour of helmet prescription but on the other are quite happy to make this statement based on a limited body of study.

    Huh? Plenty of research showing the same thing – minimal or no reduction in head injury as helmet wearing rates increase and that compulsory helmet wearing reduce the number of people who cycle significantly and that cycling improves health..

    this was the BMA position until a recent undemocratic decision and its still the position of many medical folk.

    http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4690

    AnalogueAndy
    Member

    Time for a new Forum rule?

    “Only one ‘Helmet’ thread per week / month ….year” ?

    don simon
    Member

    Unless this was the objective of the OP, isn’t the (repeated) arguing of this topic a bit disrespectful to the victim, I just hope this thread doesn’t come up on any searches of the incedent.

    DEP.

    Premier Icon v8ninety
    Subscriber

    ITU nurse of 23 years? Well you only see the ones that survived as far as hospital then, even if all they are good for is harvesting, don’t you? Oh well.

    More drinking injuries than cycling ones???? Well, duh, really? What a suprise. How many more people go end up in A&E through alcohol than through falling of a bike? Lol.

    Listen. Wear a helmet, don’t wear a helmet, I’m all for freedom of choice. You’re not going to hurt anyone but yourself, after all. (i suppose your loved ones might be quite upset, mind you) Doesn’t bother me, I mean you keep me in a job, right? All I’m going to say is it isn’t the people that I’ve met who survived because of or despite the fact they were or weren’t wearing a helmet that convinced me to wear one, it’s that other, quieter type of patient that I come across from time to time.

    Northwind, as a medical professional, I can conclusively tell you that it wasn’t your helmet that saved your life, it was your big, thick skull. 😉

    Junkyard
    Member

    why do we have to do this?
    no ones data is proof and no one convinces anyone. I dont think this thread was the best choice for this debate.
    Bullheart +1

    stevede
    Member

    RIP to the cylist involved.
    Having recently completed JOGLE and having several near misses (per day) it has put me off riding a road bike enough to sell mine 4 months after buying it and the day after i finished at Lands End, too many bad roads, too many bad drivers (especially here in Cornwall), even with a hi viz, helmet and gloves on i didn’t lose the constant feeling of vulnerability, each to their own but i prefer to get my thrills hitting a trail faster than i should on my proper bike or attempting jumps, drops, trails a little out of my comfort zone not by getting clipped by a wing mirror or swerving to avoid a head on with some idiot who can’t wait a few seconds.
    Road bikes are gay and helmet threads are boring, end of thread.

    dekadanse
    Member

    TJ, let’s not bore the good people now, but sometime I’d really like to have this out with you properly – all this lofty medic arrogance which actually flies in the face of overwhelming evidence, both anecdotal and from the bulk of research, that wearing hats clearly helps reduce death and serious injury on the margins.

    Yes, if it’s high velocity, then the hat don’t help, and yes, plenty of hat wearers still get serious injuries (but otherwise might have died), and yes, the bulk of traumatic brain injuries are not caused to cyclists whether on or off the mountain or with or without the lid – they happen to people in RTAs, falls, assaults, etc. However, even if the likelihood of TBI is only marginally less through wearing a helmet – why not just do it? The hat won’t harm you, or even your pride, or your gelled hair, let alone your ‘libertarian rights’. Seems like plain perverse behaviour to me.

    Premier Icon irc
    Subscriber

    “v8ninety – Member

    I’m a Paramedic. Trust me, you should wear a helmet. Voice of experience here. “

    Please confirm…

    1. You have never treated a motorist, pedestrian or anyone else in the with a head injury.

    2. Are cyclists the most common group for head injuries? All stats suggest they are only a minority.

    3. Do you give the same advice on prevention and recommend helmets for pedestrians and drivers/passengers.

    4.If not, why do you feel head injuries in these groups are not worth being given the same professional advice reserved for cyclists?

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