Legalise it all.

{In a change from the usual “anyone want a biscuit” line}

Anyone want a line or a disco biscuit?

I’ll rack a nice, big, fat one up for you Teej, I’m sure you’d appreciate a K-Hole.

lol @ muke

Did drugs a while ago. Really turned my life upside down. Took me a long time to really get over the deep rooted problems.

I know a lot of people think weed is ‘ok’ but I disagree. I think it has the potential to cause damage to those with the propensity for it.

Anyhow, don’t touch the stuff anymore. Other people can make their own decisions though.

I think it has the potential to cause damage to those with the propensity for it.

As do brussel sprouts. Been gagging on them since the age of 4 (30 years of choking 😆 )

stilltortoise – Member

Using heroin as another example. a large % of “petty crime” in this country is from junkies getting the money to pay for their fix. Without prohibition this would not be the case.

Don’t follow that at all. Just because it is no longer prohibited does not suddenly make it free. Legalise it, add a bit of tax for Mr Brown and it may even be more expensive = MORE “petty” ctime to pay for it

I believe that legally produced heroin would be cheaper than illegally produced. I would actually give them it free – the cost to the country would be less than the cost of the crime with supervised consumption. I believe this would reduce consumption as it would take away all the glamour from it. Several unproven assumptions in this tho.

prohibition has so utterly and completely failed it is like a bad trip itself

do the naysayers have any idea of how many eee’d coked k’d etc etc up people squeeze into clubs every weekend and buzz their tits off

not to mention endemic cannabis use throughout the country

all its created is a completely unregulated drug underworld that pumps money into organised crime, fuels violence and theft and is a huge drain on public health and policing resources

yet fear of the hypocritical media led backlash against legalisation keeps the politicians well below the parapet with their fingers in their ears about the entire issue

although i hav’nt touched dope for probably 15years, i’m by no means a stranger to these things. and believe me, i have gone through all of the pro/against arguments, many of which already touted in this thread, BUT a year or so ago i heard the best anti dope point i’d ever heard…

‘because it makes you believe its ok to do nothing!’

‘because it makes you believe its ok to do nothing!’

😆

I would actually give them it free

I would rather my taxes went into treating the thousands of drug (ab)users than paying for free drugs so we end up with even more drug (ab)users clogging up the health service

I’m sure if drugs (as defined in this context) were free and legal when I was a kid I would have tried them. As it was they were illegal and cost money so I steered clear. I bet there are 10’s of thousands people like me, many of which would end up just like the NHS statistics we have now

As for the organised crime element I do generally agree tho’

‘because it makes you believe its ok to do nothing!’

so true, millions do the same with TV though

I believe that legally produced heroin would be cheaper than illegally produced. I would actually give them it free – the cost to the country would be less than the cost of the crime with supervised consumption. I believe this would reduce consumption as it would take away all the glamour from it. Several unproven assumptions in this tho.

Almost fully supportive of you on this TJ – and if we square the circle on the Heroin trade, making it into a commodity that we bought from the farm gate, cutting out the organised crime middlemen and the taliban, then we might actually stand a reasonable chance of turning round the continuing clusterfeck that is Afghanistan – but why not tax it and make money off it at a reasonable price, no point in giving it free.

I’m sure if drugs (as defined in this context) were free and legal when I was a kid I would have tried them. As it was they were illegal and cost money so I steered clear. I bet there are 10’s of thousands people like me, many of which would end up just like the NHS statistics we have now

but what are the NHS/Police stats on drug casualties and the same for alcohol. In my personal experience (and I’m quite partial to both) I have been a stat because of alcohol more than once; one severe head injury, two random beatings by drunk teenagers, and another trip to casualty drunkenly trying to leap frog a traffic cone and smashing my face on the corner of a kerb. I have smoked alot and I have dabbled elsewhere and not once have I been to hospital.

Alcohol funnily enough was legal.

Stilltortoise – not freely given away to all but to existing junkies. The cost of this would be less to the country than the current costs of the crime they do. It would then cut the market for the crims so there was no profit in it so they would turn their attentions elsewhere thus stopping supply that creates new junkies. Thats the logic.

I’ll relink to this:
http://www.flatearthnews.net/media-falsehoods-and-propaganda/heroin

Martindale, the standard medical reference book, which records that heroin is used for the control of severe pain in children and adults, including the frail, the elderly and women in labour. It is even injected into premature babies who are recovering from operations. Martindale records no sign of these patients being damaged or morally degraded or becoming criminally deviant or simply insane. It records instead that, so far as harm is concerned, there can be problems with nausea and constipation.

One of Nick Davis’ original stories on the propagation mis-information was his research into the “Heroin is evil” meme.

His acommpanying book “Flat Earth News” is a very good book on the journalistic process.

Since I would never consider taking recreational drugs other than coffee and alcohol, I had never thought about the moral aspects pointed out by TJ, but I think his point is well made. I’ve always thought all these drugs should be legal as we know prohibition doesn’t work, and as for:

Legalise it, add a bit of tax for Mr Brown and it may even be more expensive = MORE “petty” ctime to pay for it

this is laughable, as there’d be clearly no sense in making the legal drug more expensive than the black market product

In my youth I was very into my clubbing and used to get seriously caned of a weekend at clubs like Sundissential, but I never ended up in hospital or in a police station due to the effects of this apparently ruinous habit.

Nope, I used to knock it on the head in the early hours of the morning on Sunday, let the effects wear off and be fresh as a daisy for Monday. I managed to hold down a responsible job, had perfect attendance, never felt a need to mug old ladies in order to buy drugs and maintained a ‘normal’ relationship with friends and family.

Of course I can’t say that those I know a serious taste for that nice, legal and taxable drug alcohol can say the same about their lives.

Taxed drugs = acceptable drugs.

TJ & SFB, this isn’t aimed at you.

Some quality preaching there PP. Drink alcohol at all? Would it be legal if it were not taxed? Time for you to wake up perhaps?

I’m right though, aren’t I?
You wouldn’t get so wound up if I wasn’t.

time to wake up and grow up?
so when are you going to learn to manage money like an adult,

I have learned. I have no credit cards and don’t need them any more. I have a personal loan that I’m paying off early, a joint mortgage which we also overpay on and no other debts. Pray tell, where am I going wrong?
Put brain into gear before opening gob.

stop eating crap food and being overweight

I never, ever eat crap. Most of what I eat is fresh, home cooked, produced on our allotment, sourced from local butchers etc. For example I haven’t eaten at a fast food place for over 10 years. I just like to eat. I enjoy my food.
And unlike our druggie OP I’m not complaing.
It also DOES NOT AFFECT MY LIFE like it seems is happening to the OP. I’m, fit enough to run 10k in 45-50 mins, and complete the TransWales last year. Yeah, I carry a couple of extra stone, but my brain and lungs aren’t borked.

and stop wasting money on fast toys?

And you don’t have a fairly expensive MTB then? Or more than one? Other hobbies/sports/interests? It’s not a waste to me. As you can see above, I’m financially fine. If I want a new bike, I can buy one. I save the money, then spend it.

personally i couldn’t give a toss what you do with you life just find it a bit odd that you are happy to tell somebody else to “grow up” yet feel your own vices and failings are acceptable.

Personally i couldn’t give a toss what you do with you life just find it a bit odd that you are happy to complain about bad experiences on illegal drugs which you take of your own choice. MY own vices and failings are acceptable to me and I don’t whinge/boast about them on internet forums as if as if it makes me clever somehow.
Druggie looser, your brain is fried.
Again, grow up and get a life. I’ll stick by what I say because at least I can remember it.

(PS, Don’t bother having another pop, because I won’t be checking this thread again. Can’t be bothered to argue the toss any longer with deluded pot-heads
But seriously, very well done to the sensible ones that sorted themselves out)

whippersnapper
On alcohol, I absolutely agree, but have deliberately avoided bringing that into the debate
TJ

not freely given away to all but to existing junkies

Gotcha

as there’d be clearly no sense in making the legal drug more expensive than the black market product

Since when did sense play any part? 😕

I’ve been taking drugs in various forms for the best part of twenty five years. Never done me any harm… Im still fitter than most people much younger me, show no signs of laziness and am in perfectlty good health mentally and physically.

anyone with an interest in the subject and the phony war on drugs should read this article :

The War on Consciousness

Kev

PP are you for real…??? Surely not. Relf rightous waffle.

I must apologise at contributing to this hi-jacked post. Poor alpin started it as a light-hearted observation and now the gloves are on 🙄
I saw Cypress Hill live once; B Real was so stoned he could barely stand 😆

PP – Although you won’t be checking this thread I’ll fire away anyway, if only to make this druggie ‘looser’ feel better.

Strange how you don’t consider your airing of opinion as being ‘clever somehow’ but consider those of other people to be so……

Warning, the internet may contain opinions that differ from your own. If this is likely to cause offence step away from the broadband and put The Archers on.

Warning, the internet may contain opinions that differ from your own. If this is likely to cause offence step away from the broadband and put The Archers on.

I realise that now and STW is a happier place because of it (has only taken me several months)

I saw Cypress Hill live once; B Real was so stoned he could barely stand ..

I saw ‘The Pogues’ is Sheffield a few years back and Mr McGowan was so blitzed on a drug which is deemed acceptable mainly because the government says so (and takes a nice slice of tax from) that he couldn’t sing. He sat on the drum riser for the entire concert with a bottle in his hand.

Shall we start a new “alchohol is bad” thread? Nah, I can’t be bothered either

Not all alcohol is bad, just as neither is all recreational drug use.

Its about choices.

I’ve never understood wanting to take drugs or drink more than lightly. I tend to observe both from a distance with an air of confusion, heavy participants of both turn into meandering morons that make little sense and embarrass themselves, then generally regret it later. I quite like the mild effects of a few beers, but getting smashed? Only done it a couple of times, and by mistake, regretted it greatly. I know some people who work all week looking forward to getting smashed to forget things/have a good time – very odd to me, is normal life not full of opportunities to have a good time, and that full of stuff to forget? I dont know if I should feel pity, or if that’s patronising?!?

Put brain into gear before opening gob.

How does that work, then??? 😀

In defence of PP; he’s very fit, and a bloody good bike rider. I dread to think what decreasing his pieload would do; he’d be even bloody quicker. I’d encourage him to eat more, just so’s I can keep up with him.

Guns don’t kill people, Rappers do…

Most drugs, if used in moderation, can be a lot of fun. It’s just that some people don’t know how to moderate their usage. Those same people would be addicts to any drug; it’s not the drug, as much as the addictive nature of some people. The scale of addiction ranges from mild psychological ‘needing a spliff/beer/glass of wine to relax of an evening’, to being compelled to commit even violent crime, in order to feed a habit; the real desperate total physical and psychological dependence on a substance.

Economics often has a bearing on the nature of the effects of the addiction, to the individual, and society as a whole. Middle-class coke addicts may be able to afford the bi-annual rehab, or monthly detox, whilst sink estate crack heads descend into a spiral of self-destruction, which is damn near impossible to escape from, without help.

Of course, there’s the ‘if you don’t touch drugs in the first place, you won’t have any trouble with drugs’ type philosophy, which works for many people. But people, espeshly young impressionable ones, have a desire to seek out new pleasures, and will experiment, regardless of rules and regulations. Half the thrill is in the illicitness, certainly to begin with.

And many of the rules and laws surrounding drugs are based on religious morality; it is sinful to give your mind over to intoxication, as this detracts from your ability to worship God. and of course, someone using ‘mind-expanding’ drugs might not be as amenable to religious indoctrination. I can see how LSD might be particularly reviled by certain religions…

I do think PP is being somewhat naive about this issue, although I can understand the need to be in control. Too many drugs can fry your brain. I’ve seen the proof.

Rudeboi, you dont ‘do’ shortposts do you?

RB I dont think any laws/rules have anything to do with religion. Our laws would be a bit stupid if religiously based, as a large percentage of the population would not need to pay heed.

“illicit” things never interested me as a kid, fun things did, same with my mates I hung out with. If the fun things were illegal we tended either not to do them for fear of getting caught…. there’s nothing to fear in getting caught these days. Back then you’d get taken in by the police and cautioned at least, then taken home by the police, the family would be disgraced in the street and your parents would give you a clout to boot.

is normal life not full of opportunities to have a good time, and that full of stuff to forget? I dont know if I should feel pity, or if that’s patronising?!?

I have got very drunk many times in my past but never as an “escape”. I may even have been one of those participents you have seen. It was fun, even more so after a day at work, bike ride, climb etc. Yes it often hurt afterwards and yes it cost me a lot of money. Now I’m a Dad I don’t drink nearly as much, but I probably enjoy a (singular) beer more than ever.

Illegal drugs, alcohol, cigarettes. It doesn’t matter. We are all different. Some can handle them, some can’t. Some get ill, some don’t. ONe thing I do agree on is that they are all a great way of getting tax for the public coffers.

On another point, I have probably cost the NHS more with sporting injuries than any alcohol related ones. Does that make me bad? 😆

still – I’m not suggesting all people use it as an escape, but it’s a very very common answer to the question. I too enjoy a beer or two fairly regularly, over lunch etc, but not so much for the effects, one beer has almost no noticable effect so it’s purely down to the flavour.

I agree, some can handle it, some cant, some are addictive, some drugs cause serious ongoing mental problems. Ultimately I think its a bad idea to legalise such things. If someone banned alchohol I’d not really care, other than the increase in my taxation – a few weeks on and I’d forget alcohol ever existed.

yeah but don’t shout about it because they may try banning them too There will be a war on sport. And then driving. And then crossing the road. But not booze cos booze is good.

As far as dope goes, I rarely inhale myself but I don’t begrudge others their fun.

Personally I think NWA put it perfectly in Express Yourself…

I still express, yo, I don’t smoke weed or a sess.
Cause its known to give a brother brain damage.
And brain damage on the mic don’t manage
Nuthin’
But makin’ a sucker and you equal.
Don’t be another sequel…

RB I dont think any laws/rules have anything to do with religion

Au contraire. We live in a ‘Christian’ country. The foundations of much of our institutions of Law and Order are based on Christian doctrine. The Queen is our ‘Divine’ Head of State, with the power to pass laws, and yo go and see how much religion plays a part in Parliamentary and Legal proceedings. Judges etc are ‘sworn in’, and required to recite an oath of allegienace to God and the Queen, and all sorts.

And there are the Lords Spiritual…

RB – yes the pomp and ceremony is religious, of course, but how many laws are based on one particular religion? I can’t think of any that bias for or against any religion off the top of my head?

personally i couldn’t give a toss what you do with you life just find it a bit odd that you are happy to tell somebody else to “grow up” yet feel your own vices and failings are acceptable. [/quote]

Personally i couldn’t give a toss what you do with you life just find it a bit odd that you are happy to complain about bad experiences on illegal drugs which you take of your own choice. MY own vices and failings are acceptable to me and I don’t whinge/boast about them on internet forums as if as if it makes me clever somehow.
Druggie looser, your brain is fried.
Again, grow up and get a life. I’ll stick by what I say because at least I can remember it.

(PS, Don’t bother having another pop, because I won’t be checking this thread again. Can’t be bothered to argue the toss any longer with deluded pot-heads

well where to start?!
you have no idea how funny your post is (maybe it’s the drugs?)
i wasn’t whinging/boasting about anything. as i said i found it odd that your ‘vices’ were acceptable but those of another person meant he needed to “grow up”
please read my post again and don’t misquote me because i never said anything about taking drugs or being happy to “complain about bad experiences” YOU ARE CONFUSING MY POST WITH SOMEBODY ELSES

“Druggie looser, your brain is fried.”

really? i’m not the one misquoting, misconstruing and using an ad-hominem argument to divert attention away the fact that your acceptance of what’s wrong or right isn’t the only one. maybe the paranoia is a symptom of excessive drug use?

Put brain into gear before opening gob.

LOL

PMSL at the genius of Poddy (on the assumption that he’s on a wind-up!) 😀

Just for what it’s worth. I do not do any illegal drugs because, on the off-chance that I got caught, I would lose my job, and indeed probably my profession. Simple as. I’d quite like to smoke pot and opium, I’ve heard brilliant things about ketamine and I’d benefit enormously from dance drugs. But I am successfully deterred by prohibition because the stakes are too high. 🙂

BD – Ketamine can be fun but the problem is many people take it in clubs like they would coke, in a ‘snorter’. The thing is coke snorter bottles are designed for coke, which is almost always cut with something else and therefore a larger bump is required to counter it being watered down.

Ketamine on the other hand is most usually pure (medical grade) and uncut and when it is taken in a coke snorter its invariably a little more than should be taken and then you get the K-Hole with its resultant ‘stare into the corner and drool’ effects. This is the main reason it has quite a bad name in clubs etc as a ‘mong drug’, because folk don’t know how to take it.