All my bikes currently, are 9 speed. It’s now getting tricky to get xtr or even xt shifters, mechs and chainsets. Cassettes and chains are fine now but I remember xt cassettes no longer being available for 8 speed.

Anyway, I see road bikes are going 11 speed on mid to high end groups now. So, if my budget is on the borderline, should I push to go 11 speed to futureproof myself? I don’t tend to sell bikes, I run them and run them.

Would I be shooting myself in the foot buying a new 10 speed? Even worse, buying last years ultegra?

Still get 9 speed Ultegra cassettes and they’ve been obsolete for 10 years. If you’re upgrading now though I’d go 11. Di2.

6800 ultegra is almost the same price as 6700, why wouldn’t you go 6800?

Still got 7 speed on a couple of bikes !!

The other thing is on my road bike my 9 speed mechs and down tube shifters are fine and sti levers are pricey .I still want downtube shifters as they are simple and cheap .

8 speed mostly here, once you realise xt+ makes **** l difference to the riding experience you find worthwhile things to do with your cash.

I have xt but slx maybe just as good ?

On the road I am still running ultegra 9 speed and finding it possible to get replacement parts

Is that chains and cassettes or mechs and shifters?

Chains and cassettes. Yes sorry I forgot I downgraded my shifters to get 9 speed in the spring.

Unless you race competitively, never

8spd is more than adequate otherwise

Except that it’s virtually impossible to get decent (or indeed rubbish) 8 speed kit. Frankly if you’re not racing having gears seems excessive 🙄

You’re having problems getting hold of 9 speed chains and cassettes? I have a shed load of both in a box at work. All ratios of cassettes from Shimano, Miche, Campagnolo and Sram. Chains from Shimano, KMC and Sram.

I was 9spd road until recently when one of my ultegra stis blew up. My cross has a triple of touring duties and elected to put a 105 triple on as replacement. It’s ok, not sure it shifts as well but I do prefer the new hood shapes. Couldn’t get a 9spd ultegra (ultegra 9spd were double and triple compatible) sti for sensible money so forced my hand to change as wasn’t on dropping to tigra.

The killer deal for me with 11spd is, as I understand it, that it is not compatible with 9/10spd hubs. I like to mix and match between bikes so I’d need to change them all to 11spd if I wanted to continue with this. Even then I’m not sure some of my wheels are compatible with new 11spd freehubs (thinking 2004 zipp disk amongst others) so it could mean binning perfectly serviceable wheels too.

Yes. It’s one faster.

It’s a pain with cassette bodies and I’m in the process of selling hope hoops and hubs and buying an expensive easton cassette body for a tubeless ready wheelset so I can run 11 speed and have the ability to swap wheels around (inc an existing 10 speed bike) my reason is I am about to buy an sram force 22 groupset at below trade and I would have spent the same on anything 10 speed but this way I end up with a couple of wheelsets that are modern (tubeless compatible/ 11sped and have modern 23mm rim width) and swappable between bikes.

Everyone’s situation will be different though.

Hope have just started to make their new road hubs 11speed compatible which is good news for me.

Chains and cassettes are never a problem but mtb high end 9 speed mechs and shifters can be.

I’m looking at buying a new road bike and wondering if it’s worth spending a little more to get 11 speed over 10 as I guess similar might happen with road kit in the future. That’s why I’m asking.

Yep, it will, it’ll take a little while, but it will happen. Chains and cassettes won’t be a problem, but mechs and STIs will be if you want nice kit.

When the Topeak Hexus multitool comes with an 11 speed chain tool that will be the right time.

Chains and cassettes are never a problem but mtb high end 9 speed mechs and shifters can be.

I agree with this and getting high end shifters for the road in 9 speed is also a problem. As I mentioned above, I was forced to downgrade from Ultegra to Tiagra to get replacement 9 speed shifters and I have regretted that, as it does feel like the bike isn’t as good as it once was.

I hadn’t realised that 11 speed hubs weren’t compatible with 10 or 9 speed either, so for me it does feel like time to get a new 11 speed bike and be done with it. I had been thinking of buying a new bike but swapping my old wheels over to it.

Campagnolo higher end stuff has been 11 speed for a number of years now, and it is very nice, plus the hubs (unlike Shimano) will do 10 or 11 speed.
It probably comes down to price though, the rule I always got told when buying kit was get the best you can afford, so why not get the 11 speed stuff?

As a user of both 10 and 11 speed Ultegra I can say the 11 speed is smoother and lighter in action.

Mavic road wheels are 11/10/9/8 speed compatible aren’t they?

What’s not “decent” about my 8spd ultegra groupset?

All consumables are still readily available at a fraction of the cost of even budget 10/11 speed.

Sounds like Cynical knows the score.

as a related question, have shimano changed the cable pull ratio for Ultegra 6800?

I can’t find a definitive answer to that question anywhere online, I’d be interested to know as Shimano 10 speed road mechs had the distinct advantage of being 9 and 8 speed compatible, meaning you could justify a lovely new rear mech and still operate it with your old but functional STi’s…

Have they changed tack with Ultegra 11 speed? or is it backwards compatible?

I expect I already know the answer, and like they did with dynasys, shimano have made a conscious decision to separate Old from New in terms of compatibility.
But it would be nice to know for sure, If not then yeah, I’d consider buying a 6800 rear mech to use on an older 9 or 10 speed system, with the expectation that at some point I’d be “Upgrading” or replacing other drive parts with 11 speed kit…

Oh yes hubs, actually that is a very good point, Cassette stack for Shimano 11 speed is 1.8mm longer than 10 speed apparently, I don’t know if shimano have been clever enough to use a bit of offset or overhang to try and accommodate squeezing an 11 speed cassette onto a 9/10 speed FH body, but again I imagine the “forced upgrade” route is their preference…

Once you get to the point where that one extra sprocket is costing you a new wheelset as well as a whole new drivetrain, then IMO it makes much more sense to wait until you next buy a whole new bike and get these things as part of an OEM package than have to change a whole heap of items on a perfectly good bike simply for fear of not being able to get a high end cassette…

Yep, you just take off the spacer that you need for 9/10 speed.

Likewise any other 11 speed hubs (DT, Tune, Novatec etc) can be used with 10 speed with a spacer.

Nope, 11 speed rear mechs are for 11 speed only.

(Please excuse poor photo)

Keep the 9 speed going for another couple or three years and save your money so you can then blow it all on being one of the first with 12 speed.

What’s not “decent” about my 8spd ultegra groupset?

All consumables are still readily available at a fraction of the cost of even budget 10/11 speed.

Sounds like Cynical knows the score.

And when you send your bike down the road and need shifters…?

What about if you want a nice cassette rather than a freehub munching boat anchor?

250g durable cassettes and steel free hubs for me, I’m no ladyboy 😉

8spd ultegra STI are not as difficult to get hold of as you seem to think.

But don’t worry your pretty little head about me, My ex used to buy expensive & pretty (but ultimately pointless) things to make herself feel better too so I’m well used to your argument.

250g durable cassettes and steel free hubs for me, I’m no ladyboy

I’m very fond of my 8 speed Sora. Smooth as silk every time.

cheers Mister P, that pretty much settles it for me then, without an “Incremental upgrade path” I doubt I’ll be using any 11 speed road stuff for a decade or so.
I might migrate to 10 speed at some point, but only if my 9 speed STi pack up, otherwise the cost is still a bit prohibitive…

105 parts still offer about the best VFM for road use (IMO of course), function/weight/price/compatibility wise, but then I’m not a serious road rider and wouldn’t turn my nose up at Tiagra for the right price.

Ultegra is nice stuff but a shade too rich for the likes of me, I’m only likely to have it if I spoil myself and buy a posh complete bike at some point in the distant future.

That said a mate managed to pick up a 2nd hand pristine, Dura Ace dripping Carbon Fiber Trek for £500 a couple of months ago, OK it’s a decade old but it still pisses all over anything you could buy brand new for a grand today, I am rather jealous TBH…

The other unnecessary nause they (Shimano) have created is making rear mech pull ratios different between mtb and road on the latest groups. Can’t see why they did that – was nice to be able to mix stis with mtb cassettes/mechs on cross and trekking bikes. Is/was all fine on 9spd.

as a related question, have shimano changed the cable pull ratio for Ultegra 6800?

I can’t find a definitive answer to that question anywhere online, I’d be interested to know as Shimano 10 speed road mechs had the distinct advantage of being 9 and 8 speed compatible, meaning you could justify a lovely new rear mech and still operate it with your old but functional STi’s…

well I am successfully running a 10-speed 105 rear mech with 9-speed tiagra shifters and a 9-speed ultegra cassette and chain, if that helps? So I think the rear mechs just move by the amount they are pulled by the shifters.

However, I did hear that the pull ratios for the brakes changed at some point as the shifters and groupsets were upgraded (e.g. from 6600, to 6700 to 6800), but how true that is I am not sure.

250g durable cassettes and steel free hubs for me, I’m no ladyboy

What a peculiar comment. It’s ok, I really don’t worry about you, just find comments like “unless you’re racing, 8 speed is fine”. What makes 8 speed unsuitable for racing, or more than 8 speed unsuitable for anything else? You didn’t answer that first time round. Why have gears?

I’m very fond of my 8 speed Sora. Smooth as silk every time.

Having just replaced the entire transmission on my 9 speed Tiagra set up it’s ok, but no better than that! Not a patch on a top end groupset, just feels clunky in comparison.

At the end of the day it all works, but top end stuff works better and makes the bike more pleasant to ride. Particularly on the road a £200 Carerra will be more than adequate for what we’re all doing, we just choose nicer bikes because we can!

To that end, if buying now I’d be going 11 speed for sure, notwithstanding issues about wheel cross compatibility.

well I am successfully running a 10-speed 105 rear mech with 9-speed tiagra shifters and a 9-speed ultegra cassette and chain, if that helps? So I think the rear mechs just move by the amount they are pulled by the shifters.

However, I did hear that the pull ratios for the brakes changed at some point as the shifters and groupsets were upgraded (e.g. from 6600, to 6700 to 6800), but how true that is I am not sure.

Correct – rear mechs are cross compatible on road only. 10 speed MTB is different. Front mech and brake pull changed slightly on the groupsets with hidden cables (7900, 5700, 6700), however they will still work to an extent, brakes can either feel a bit wooden or spongey.

it is a bit of a silly argument, there isn’t an 8-speed system that is anywhere near as good as a new 11-speed set up like Campag Record or Sram Red ( I havent ridden the Shimano version yet). If you haven’t tried a those then you are missing out even though they are ridiculously expensive

well I am successfully running a 10-speed 105 rear mech with 9-speed tiagra shifters and a 9-speed ultegra cassette and chain, if that helps? So I think the rear mechs just move by the amount they are pulled by the shifters.

Thanks for that, not really answering my question though…

My rather specific question was; is a shiney new 11 speed ultegra 6800 backwards compatible with 10/9/8 speed?

I’m fully aware of the various other shimano cross compatibilities between 10/9/8 speed Road and 8/9 speed MTB parts, I have taken advantage of these things myself in the past.

Shimano have already demonstrated form for changing cable pull ratio when they introduced “Dynasys” to the MTB market, so it’s not such a stupid question…

7 speed sora triple sti on one cross bike .I dont want to break expensive levers when I crash and my touring bike has down tube 9 speed shifters as they are hard to break .I dont want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a buggered sti

There’s no such gear as the wrong gear on my summer road bike (11sp Athena) – no gaps between ratios.
But then again, you can say the same about my singlespeed commuter 🙂

Having the correct gear to give you your optimum cadence in all situations and having a bike on a level playing ground to your competitors may be *fairly* important in competition. Otherwise, not so much..

What I find peculiar is changing what I said to suit your argument and hounding me for a response to something I haven’t said..
.
Is it really this hard to accept anothers opinion?

Hey campkoala, no hounding from me – if it felt like that to you, then sorry.