Yes mate. It came as a surprise to me that he’s “thick”.

He’s Chancellor of the Exchequer. You’re not.

What is surprising me is the rich people’s attitude to charity. In a nutshell they seem to be saying “we ain’t giving to charity unless we get tax breaks”
Unbeleivable. Personally I wish Gideon luck in getting these people to pay their tax, and I hope it’s comparable with the % the rest of us do.

It may come as a shock, but politicians lie. It’s in the job description.

There some signs to look out for. Next time one pops up on the TV, watch carefully, if his mouth moves………

Why has no one caught up with Boots yet? They have a PO Box in Switzerland but no staff manning a physical office as per the rules.

Maybe its changed since I was there, but there was a ‘person/lawyer’ as per the rules – they also covered a lot of other companies too.

At the end of the day, any company that doesn’t minimise its taxes (and other costs) is really failing its shareholders.

In a nutshell they seem to be saying “we ain’t giving to charity unless we get tax breaks”

Alternatively, they may be saying “If I can’t keep it, then I’d rather give it to charity and minimise the amount that is confiscated by the wastrel flapheads who gain political power”

He is also a multimillionaire who claims to not be a higher rate taxpayer as he hides his money in a trust fund to avoid tases.

Surely whether he’s a higher rate taxpayer is nothing to do with the amount of money in his trust fund. All he has to do is adjust the income he takes from the trust to make sure all his income from whatever source comes to less than £150,000.

Really TJ your sanctimonious frothing hatred of him is getting a bit tired. Are you telling me that if your dad had a few million to hand down to you and had taken advantage of a legal tax avoidance method that you’d close it down and pay tax on the lot? Is there a flying pig emoticron?

why not Boris does.
I am sureothers do

Gideon cannot really complain about tax avoidance when he does it or pretend it is a surprise wehn he does it and that is the story. It is not about whether TJ would do this[ personally I think he is a man of his word and he would not avoid tax ] it is about whether anyone believe the tax avoiding chancellor is “surprised” people do it. Only a fool would be surprised by this and I doubt we can find one, even on STW, going really do they …well I never, the rich avoid tax, well **** me. I wonder if anything has been in the news with say tory deputy chairmen implicated in tax avoidance.I wonder if this person is a friend of georges.

Lord Ashcroft courted controversy when Chairman of the Conservative Party Eric Pickles MP declared on BBC Radio 4 that Ashcroft would be willing to appear on the station’s flagship Today programme to clarify his unclear tax status. However, when invited, Lord Ashcroft quickly declined, according to John Humphrys. Ashcroft delayed comment on whether he currently pays tax on his global income in the United Kingdom, despite being a prominent and influential member of the legislature and major donor to the Conservative Party but eventually announced his non-domiciled status.

then I’d rather give it to charity and minimise the amount that is confiscated by the wastrel flapheads who gain political power”

Not any more. Can we plebs chose to donate a much smaller sum to charity to avoid paying any tax?

Course you can

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/individuals/giving/basics.htm

So, LeftyTrackWorld, what’s your take on Ken’s tax dodging hypocrisy?

Gideon cannot really complain about tax avoidance when he does it or pretend it is a surprise wehn he does it and that is the story

How do you know he avoids tax. Have you seen his accounts?

However I agree his remarks were disingenuous and I can’t quite see what he hoped to gain by feigning ignorance.

Personally I’m with Peter Mandelson who said he was “intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich as long as they pay their taxes“

For some reason the last bit is always left out.

So either close all the avoidance loopholes or come up with a “tycoon tax”. I see no reason why millionaires should be able to pay less than 30% tax.

It is not about whether TJ would do this[ personally I think he is a man of his word and he would not avoid tax ]

It depends on your definition of ‘avoid’. We know that TJ has a second property he rents out, I’m sure he takes ‘advantage’ of any tax ‘reduction’ methods (TJ?) – or do you not class this as tax ‘avoidance’?

Au contraire, I’m sure he’s careful to maximise his tax bill by failing to subtract his costs from rental income before he submits his tax return 😉

Well we should feel some sympathy for Ken as in the last two years he’s only had a salary of £5,700 🙁 Poor Ken.

Funny that £5,715 was the amount above which he would have been liable for class 4 NI contributions of 8% in 2010-2011. How fortuitous that this meagre salary was supplemented by £55K of dividends in 2010-2011 and £63,333 in dividends in 2011-2012.

Without having seen the tax returns that he was shown, I can’t really say whether I’d be shocked. I’m also curious about what you could actually tell from a tax return alone. The whole point of tax avoidance is finding ways to legally assert that your earnings are not really income for tax purposes, which means you don’t put it on your tax return. So surely he must have some external information about how much these anonymised individuals are really making?

What I am shocked by is the proposed “fix”. Tax avoidance is about exploiting complexity in the tax system. What’s this fix? Add more complexity – introduce a new rule that specifies a minimum tax percentage for “millionaires”. I have no idea how this could work – the whole point is that you can’t reliably assess taxable income, so what does this percentage apply to?

So, LeftyTrackWorld, what’s your take on Ken’s tax dodging hypocrisy?

It has no relevance to the issue being debated. Any chance you could offer a view on the Tory chancellors surprise or Ashcrofts behaviour?

You cannot criticise a tory no matter what they do and yet you get all gleeful over ken*…still no real surprise is there in discovering a Tory being a self serving mendacious ****

So flashy your view on tories is it all spiffing or is it just not cricket?

* my views were debated on another thread and flashy knows i think he is a hypocrit… but he cannot criticise a tory and always tries to divert any story back to leftes even [especially] when it is barely relevant..nice distraction tactic but tiresome

Perhaps George was surprised because Labour had been in power since 1997 and rich people were still getting away with paying less tax…
By way of balance the top 1% of earners actually pay 24% of income tax revenue and the top 10% pay over half.Then add on the 20% VAT on their much larger expenditure on goods and services.They are also far more likely to pay for private schooling and healthcare rather than using the state.

So, LeftyTrackWorld, what’s your take on Ken’s tax dodging hypocrisy?

My take on it is he’s a mere amateur compared to your beloved tory boys.

By way of balance the top 1% of earners actually pay 24% of income tax revenue and the top 10% pay over half.Then add on the 20% VAT on their much larger expenditure on goods and services.They are also far more likely to pay for private schooling and healthcare rather than using the state.

They can afford it.

Thinking about it, Mr Livingstone was only doing what the HMRC expected of him anyway. And also this “he only pays 20%” is terribly misleading.

……politicians lie. It’s in the job description.

So what happens if they don’t lie ?

They don’t get elected ?

Thinking about it, Mr Livingstone was only doing what the HMRC expected of him anyway. And also this “he only pays 20%” is terribly misleading.

Why are you thinking about Ken Livingstone ?…….because Flashheart wants you to ?

Why are you thinking about Ken Livingstone ?…….because Flashheart wants you to ?

No, because he’s dreamy and i want to have his newts. 8)

Good point Ernie

Why not think about Ed Miliband, and his two million pound house, left to him by his father in a trust fund to avoid inheritance tax

or David Miliband, and his service company, that his media and appearance fees get channeled through to avoid income tax, since he and his wife take the money as shareholder dividends

Or Gordon and Sarah brown, who do the same

And then why not think about Boris (boo, hiss) who has proven to us that he paid the full whack in his tax, at the top rate, no service companies, no creative accounting – funny that – the evil Tory paying his taxes, and the good old fashioned socialists pulling every wheeze in the book to get out of it..

But that’s OK because it doesn’t count if you are a socialist, its only wrong if you’re a Tory…

Why not think about Ed Miliband, and his two million pound house, left to him by his father in a trust fund to avoid inheritance tax

or David Miliband, and his service company, that his media and appearance fees get channeled through to avoid income tax, since he and his wife take the money as shareholder dividends

Or Gordon and Sarah brown, who do the same

Yes of course. It’s so obvious. The Labour Party is full of millionaire toffs born with silver spoons in their mouths. JUST LIKE THE TORY PARTY.

I wonder why no one’s ever noticed that ?

But that’s OK because it doesn’t count if you are a socialist, its only wrong if you’re a Tory…

Erm, don’t see any socialists in the names you have mentioned there z-11. Is this possibly because the stick you measure socialism by is some bloke called John Redwood?

Whats that you say? Labour, millionaires, silver spoons, socialists? pah, nonsense!

EAT THE RICH

Oh you’re absolutely right Zulu-Eleven. The Labour Party is packed with multimillionaire toffs from privileged backgrounds …..JUST LIKE THE TORY PARTY !

I wonder why it’s only you who’s noticed that ?

Hmmm, he may be onto something…

Why have you posted a photo of Peter Mandelson Zulu-Eleven ? Are you trying to demolish your own argument ? How gallant of you 🙂

ah right wingers bless c on an issue about the tory chancellor we now apparently should discuss either tony benn or mandy. It’s not hard to see what you and flashy have tried to achieve so any views on the actual issue?
jesus i know we have battle lines here but you both literally never say a word about the right EVER….go on lets have another labour /lefty bash from you both on the chancellors views on tax avoidance you know it makes sense 🙄

What worries me isn’t the fact that rich people of all political persuasions aren’t paying any tax*, its the approach of HMRC

If you run a small business, the HMRC are a tyranny. They’ll come down on you like a ton of bricks for the slightest infringement

Yet it seems that if you’re a multinational or a rich individual, you can have cosy meetings over a nice civilised lunch, with a few glasses of wine, and basically make you’re own arrangements.

With the amount of money involved here, are you telling me that those cosy arrangements aren’t getting the nod from George and his friends at the treasury. So to then try and feign shock is just insulting to everyone’s intelligence

* The usual ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ clause applies

I think that’s generally how law and governance has made its priorities, in all aspects of life, chase the easy victories and rule over those that accept it.

With the amount of money involved here, are you telling me that those cosy arrangements aren’t getting the nod from George and his friends at the treasury

I agree with the sentiment but to solely direct blame at the current administration is unfair. This went on for 10 years under labour, who did sweet fanny adams about it.

Wrecker – as I stated – The usual ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ clause applies

I think the motivation is slightly different. New Labour were pathetically fawning and in awe of the rich, whereas the Tories went to school with them and have them round for ‘Kitchen Suppers’

The end result’s the same though

I think the motivation is slightly different. New Labour were pathetically fawning and in awe of the rich, whereas the Tories went to school with them and have them round for ‘Kitchen Suppers’

The end result’s the same though

I quite agree, the reasons are irrelevant; in the end the rich have done equally well under each party. I’ve nothing against people earning money, being rich, making profit BUT they should bloody well pay tax on their money at the same rate the rest of us do.

BUT they should bloody well pay tax on their money at the same rate the rest of us do.

Interesting, because they are “asked” to pay more for income tax. If it was simpler and lower then you may get fewer people trying to avoid it so revenues may go up.

Interesting, because they are “asked” to pay more for income tax.

More than 22/40% of all of it and NI on top? really?
EDIT; we’re not talking about capital gains tax.

To give some perspective. US republican candidates average tax payment 10%.

Same the world over.