What the hell has the justice system gone mad? backdating the sentence to that of a minor when the murder was committed.
Shame the death sentance was not in force when the murder was committed
Rant over
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the prison sentences for the murder of stephen lawrence GRRRRRR
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Posted 4 months ago #
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What the hell has the justice system gone mad? backdating the sentence to that of a minor when the murder was committed.
Why is that mad?Posted 4 months ago # -
That's just how the system works, those were just about the maximum sentences available to the judge.
I was involved in a fairly recent case where a bunch of teenagers kicked a homeless man to death, they were back on the streets a little over two years after incarceration. It doesn't seem right, but that's how it is.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I never cease to be saddened by the inability of adults to understand sentencing. Crimes, convictions and proportionate sentencing are in the news and media daily, and yet every sentence seems to come as some sort of hideous surprise.
Posted 4 months ago # -
They are held At Her Majesty's Pleasure. The terms are the shortest they can serve, not the usual longest possible time inside.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Just remember that both of the convicted men can be detained indefinitely. The sentences that they have been given are the minimum that have to serve before they can be considered for parole. In addition they are released under licence which means that they can be recalled back to prison at any time and for any reason.
The sentences given are at the upper end of comparable murders.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Sorry if I appear to be a bit dumb but murder should be life as in they leave prison in a box.
How would you feel as a parent?????
Posted 4 months ago # -
saladdodger - Member
Shame the death sentance was not in force when the murder was committedThis, together with the OP's failure to listen to the justification for the sentencing, tells us all we need to know.
He'll be wondering why they get out in 7 years next...
Posted 4 months ago # -
14 years seems like a LOOOOng old time to me... cripes i'd be a pensioner when i got out!!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Regarding maccruiskeen's post, I agree.
This country seems to be divided beyween those that imagine they're living in some sort of totalitarian police state and those that think it's an ultra-permissive liberal playground.
In reality, we're somewhere slap bang in the middle of those.
Posted 4 months ago # -
So you kill someone when you are a minor, get away with it for a few years, then when you get caught get a minors sentence even though you are no longer a minor. Seems a bit wrong if you ask me.
Posted 4 months ago # -
skywalker - Member
So you kill someone when you are a minor, get away with it for a few years, then when you get caught get a minors sentence. Seems a bit wrong if you ask me.
Why?
They have to take the youth and immaturity of the defendants into account.
Posted 4 months ago # -
And if they'd been done at the time they would still have been tried as minors.
Posted 4 months ago # -
How would you feel as a parent?????
It's why we leave arresting, charging, trials and most importantly, sentencing to the cold objectivity of others. It must hurt like hell sometimes for some people, but I wouldn't have it any other way. These two are in for a shitty time inside. And the other three must be shitting themselves now too.
Posted 4 months ago # -
These two are in for a shitty time inside.
Really. Hows that then?
Posted 4 months ago # -
fair comment Deadlydarcy
Very well put
Posted 4 months ago # -
What DD said.
Also highly relevant to the gun ownership thread.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Hasn't Norris already had a good hiding inside before the trial, by some "Asian crew"? Or so the red tops called them!?
Posted 4 months ago # -
These two are in for a shitty time inside.
Surely our super professional prison staff wouldn't let that happen, would they?Posted 4 months ago # -
Already has, hasn't it??
Posted 4 months ago # -
Be lovely if they put them in a wing populated exclusively by big lads from the Nation of Islam. Acourt brothers next.
To toggle out of DailyWail mode, there was a great vox pop this morning on R4, opining that this case is instructive because if the system fails to straightforwardly charge, prosecute and sentence such clear, straightforward and universally-agreed-to-be-despicable acts of racially-motivated violence, there's little chance of the system operating effectively in instances of more subtle racism.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Not right if they got worse than other racist murderers inside, due to the publicity, IMO.
Posted 4 months ago # -
So you kill someone when you are a minor, get away with it for a few years, then when you get caught get a minors sentence even though you are no longer a minor. Seems a bit wrong if you ask me.
You'll have to explain your view to me as it seems entirely right IMO.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Cynic_al they will do at least the 14 years,murder sentences are a tarrif and not subject to the half in custody half on licence.
It is a well established principal that offenders are sentenced in accordance with their age at the time of offending, not their age at sentence.Posted 4 months ago # -
esselgruntfuttock - Member
These two are in for a shitty time inside.Really. Hows that then?
Well, they'll be put 'on the numbers', Rule 45 (or Rule 43, I forget which, but they're both the same, one replaced the other) and housed on a segregation wing with 'vulnerable' prisoners...ex-criminal justice types, sex offenders etc
Posted 4 months ago # -
don simon - Member
Surely our super professional prison staff wouldn't let that happen, would they?Internet snarkiness aside, prison officers are like any other profession. Some are exceptional, some are woeful and the majority somewhere inbetween. However, 2 prison officers to 80 prisoners is not uncommon and if someone wants to deliver a bashing, it can be pretty difficult to prevent it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I was being sarcastic, although reading it again it didn't come out that way at all.
Posted 4 months ago # -
saladdodger - Member
Sorry if I appear to be a bit dumb but murder should be life as in they leave prison in a box.a BIT dumb. Some incredible naivity on this thread.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Leaving prison in a box would be an audacious escape
Posted 4 months ago # -
They wont be put on fraggle rock they will I'm sure be in with the general populace and I for one would not want to be a self confessed racist in any prison in the south of the UK.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Some are exceptional, some are woeful and the majority somewhere inbetween.
I know, but some folks would try to have us believe otherwise and that exceptional is the norm. Posted 4 months ago # -
when they've served their tarrif they'll then need to convince the parole board that they're reformed individuals who don't pose a threat to society.
Bit difficult if they are still denying any involvement...I reckon we've got a few years of them wasting tax payers money on appeals first...
Posted 4 months ago # -
I think the thing that angers many about the sentence being based on the fact that they were minors when they committed the crime is that for many years as adults they have continued to deny any responsibility for their actions and continued the suffering of his family.
The Lawrence family have given up 18 years of their lives to get this far and no doubt will give up more years still in the pursuit of justice for the other members of the gang. I can see how hard it must be to realise that the guilty may give up less.
I'd like to think that the 2 now inside will have it made known to them that they could be kept till they die if they don't come forward with the names of the rest of the gang. may not be possible or legal but it would be worth planting the idea in their minds.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I think that would be against the HRA...and while they would have got lower sentencing for an early admission, they are allowed to plead innocent...the delays were otherwise the fault of the Met.
Posted 4 months ago # -
essel, I just assumed that with the negative publicity and the fact that they're now "known" racists that they'd be in for a hard time - I could be talking out my arse of course - you'd obviously know better. I think sometimes we tend to think that prison is full of honourable thieves who deliver a bashing to proper scum - but I think maybe I'm watching too much tv.
To be honest, I just hope the other three aren't getting a wink of sleep waiting for the knock on the door to tell them that they're up next.
Posted 4 months ago #
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