I downloaded Richard Gillis’s new book – The Captain Myth: The Ryder Cup and Sport’s Great Leadership Delusion – yesterday and read straight through. Late night 😳

Great read, not least because it deals with a pet hobby horse of mine – the myth of the captain and leadership – but also because like many of the topics we discuss on here it analyses the role of myth versus fact.

Why do we so willingly buy into the cult of leadership in sport?

Even if you dont like Golf, its an interesting read not least because it starts with a great quote from another great writer, Nassim Nicholas Taleb (The Black Swan)

Be suspicious of the the ‘because’ and handle it with care

I have no connection with author or amazon but wanted to share a good read

This is a hard thread to engage with, as you haven’t said much about the substance of the argument against the captain/leadership idea, and most of us won’t have read the book.

Going on supposition, however, I can’t help but think of Ronaldo’s leadership in the Euro Final this year, and what he almost certainly did for his team by way of leadership.

I could never stand the guy, but man, what he did as a captain was impressive.

That looks interesting, I’ll get that for my Dad (it fits in with my, buy people presents I’d like myself stategy 😀 )

I let a little bobby dazzler dangle above the stream in the hope that some might bite Saxon

Why do we so willingly buy into the cult of leadership in sport?

The book analyses the rise in the cult of the captain not just in the Ryder Cup but more generally and then thoughtfully debunks it.

He argues that we seek explanations that are closet to myth than fact: assumptions that have no proven scientific basis, but which are commonly used as a version of the truth and which render the story of the Ryder Cup and other events credible.

A lot on issues like attribution error but without too much mumbo-jumbo, indeed he pokes fun at that.

At a time when the gap between executive pay and the rest is so high, his observations have wider relevance. IMO, we see it all the time in political discussions here and elsewhere (and climate change of course!!)

The whole captain thing is a myth.

I think leadership is related to setting an example.

Leaders are determined by the followers. This may have an influence on why captains and managers are chosen. But it is not always so as captains and managers are selected, usually, by higher management.

Leadership does matter, it matters a lot. Sports captains can be very important not east in terms of leadership (motivation) but also on the field decisions / tactics.

It does but not often in the way that people think or say in the aftermath of success of defeat – the subject of the book

Was Olly really a great Captain? Seve? Were Sutton, Love, Watson bad ones. In folklore, yes, but in reality……?

Never overlook the role of chance or as Taleb reminds us be careful with “because”…

Depends on the sport. The role of a cricket captain* is vastly different to that of a football captain. In the past they’d pick the team, decide tactics, etc.

* Even that is not as big a role as it used to be – with analysts and statisticians playing a far bigger role in setting bowling and fielding strategies than in the past. But (thankfully) in the main, for each 2 hour session the captain calls the shots, the coaching team as yet can’t / don’t yet have a big say between intervals.

I’m sure you have but if not, this is a good read too

https://www.panmacmillan.com/authors/mike-brearley/the-art-of-captaincy

– with a lot of relevance outside cricket.

His analysis of the fine margins and luck that separate the cartoon characters of the good and bad captains is very interesting. I had forgotten some of the “facts” 😉 and folklore makes that harder to rectify!!

edit- actually re-read The Art of Captaincy last year and found it very disappointed. Good anecdotes but ultimately unsatifying although this book includes from Brearley:

In retrospect it is easier to recall the spectacular successes and defeats rather than the buzz of reflection, intuition, bluff and memory that actually makes up the job

The leader-follower relationship is messy in reality and cannot be fitted into the neat soundbites beloved of the media and the leadership industry!!

Golf’s not really a team sport is it. I know they play in “teams” in some comps, but it’s not like a team on a pitch. Everything i’ve heard about this fella says he made a big difference to the team’s performance in 2003

Flasheart to the forum!

(Or is he a myth? Is he only a myth at the weekendth?)

Aren’t the best leaders the first person to follow the ‘lone nut’? This is what we were taught at a team building off-site 😯

search lone nut on youtube for an explanation (guy dancing at a festival)

I’ve not read the book (no chance I will either since golf is ****) but surely leadership is important. Obviously in team sports but you can see it in individual sports too, or indeed in other walks of life. I’m skeptical the book could put forward any kind of valid argument.

Look at Mike Tyson’s career before and after Cus D’Amato, in fact show me a boxer with a solid career who doesn’t have a great trainer behind him.

Or do we need to look at war, or the military? There are countless examples of great leadership in war, or indeed terrible leadership leading to awful consequences. The My Lai massacre spings to mind. What else is a Lieutenant or commander other than a team captain of sorts?

Problem with using sports analogies is that in sport the aim is clear and usually dead simple, and typically the size of team is fairly small, the real world isn’t like that. Real world has far more complex problems, dealt with by bigger teams and often the goals aren’t very well defined.

You can argue that the Ryder cup is a bunch of individuals coming together for a common purpose, rather than a team. I would have thought on first impressions it would make a pretty poor study as it’s quite far from the norms of traditional captaincy in sport

Leaders are determined by the followers.

Don’t I just **** know it. Loser in a stepping-backwards contest every **** time.

Another great captain, not sure you can compare captaining the Ryder Cup with other sporting activities.

For me a captain has to be on the pitch leading by example.

Golf’s not really a team sport is it. I know they play in “teams” in some comps, but it’s not like a team on a pitch. Everything i’ve heard about this fella says he made a big difference to the team’s performance in 2003

Good example and talking point. That English team were the best in the world at that point, and it’s possible that even Matt Dawson could have been captain and they’d have won!
Likewise with military leadership, if you have poorly motivated and/or trained troops; it doesn’t matter how good a leader the top nob is. On the other side, a well drilled unit will often succeed with a crap commander.

Like him or not he was a great leader.

Kate Richardson-Walsh is up there with any of the blokes mentioned on here already. Incredibly good captain

I’ve played under great captains and rubbish ones. They set the tone for the team and the way it performs.
I captain a hockey team, i’m not a great motivational speaker to the group, but i pride myself on man management of individuals in the team (arm round shoulder stuff) and to give it everything on the pitch. It’s rare i’m not exhausted at the end of a game regardless of the result

It’s rare i’m not exhausted at the end of a game regardless of the result

I captained a team (Huddersfield III’s) for a couple of seasons some time back and it was rare that the remainder of the weekend wasn’t impacted by the quality of the performance and the result. Not sure I was very good at it mind.

I captained a team (Huddersfield III’s)

Current 3’s skipper here 😀

I was going to say that a good captain can make a huge difference but looking at the examples above now I’m not so sure. Richie was a great player in a team full of great players, did he need to do much as a captain? Likewise Roy Keane, he may have got Utd into the Champions League final but they won it it without him, probably because they had four or five players that could have done the job equally as well. Mike Brearly would be the one you could argue was a great captain, he wasn’t in the side for his batting skills and he managed some difficult characters and got them to play to their best despite their massive egos.

I don’t think anyone could have captained that England rugby team in 2003, Martin Johnson made some big calls but also it was a collective effort. For instance Wales had England on the rack at one point in the knock out stages and only by bringing on Catt for Tindall did things change in Englands favour.

As for Gerrad as a great captain 😆

I think golf and rugby or football are quite different, as the latter have leaders on the field of play and Managers off it, whilst Ryder Cup golf has a Captain, who is really the Manager.

We all know how different Managers can be and the different success possible from the same sets of players, so clearly its hugely important. On the field of play whether its a pair playing in a golf match, or 15 on a Rugby pitch you need teammates who will inspire you in whatever way is necessary to get the best out of you. Its not always the Captain.