Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 41 total)
  • The last days of the United Kingdom
  • epicyclo
    Full Member

    It’s only a matter of time before the whole sorry mess disintegrates now.

    If it leads to an independent England with only its own interests to look after, that may be good.

    I’m not surprised by the Leave result.

    I expect seeing as a strong part of the Leave campaign was to take back control from unelected officials in the EU, that the Leave campaigners will immediately turn their attention to dismantling the House of Lords.

    I’m sure they will also actively support Scottish Independence because Scotland vote doesn’t count in the UK, which is similar to their feelings abut the UK’s vote in the EU.

    However that’s as likely as discovering the our PM had a habit of being fellated by decapitated pigs.

    Oh, wait… 🙂

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    And Cameron’s gone. Trying not to look sad…

    tmb467
    Free Member

    Still confused by “take back control from unelected EU officials”

    Didn’t read the rest

    whitestone
    Free Member

    Those will be the EU officials appointed by our government along with the EU officials appointed by the other EU governments.

    andyl
    Free Member

    Scotland preparing for another referendum now. “highly likely” was Sturgeons words.

    I can see NI going too.

    greyspoke
    Free Member

    Scotland preparing for another referendum now. “highly likely” was Sturgeons words.

    I can see NI going too.
    But where? That is an issue that would appear to stand approximately a 0% chance of not becoming quite sectarian.

    andyl
    Free Member

    Exactly. NI is just screwed. Has been for a long time for a multitude of reasons and it’s a shame.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    ^ I can see NI wanting to push for a referendum on reuniting with the south, correct me if i’m wrong but does this mean our closest (in relative terms) border to the EU is Southern Ireland? – does this mean border controls will have to be instigated?.

    Ha!….good luck with that.

    Frankenstein
    Free Member

    Hmm a Scottish passport looks appealing!

    End of hope and glory…

    Harry_the_Spider
    Full Member

    All of this chaos to buy Dave an extra year in power eh? FFS.

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    If it leads to an independent England with only its own interests to look after, that may be good.

    what could possibly go wrong

    mattsccm
    Free Member

    oh FFS give in gracefully.
    Most of us have had to do that many times over the decades. We don’t usually spit out the dummy.
    Or is our form of democracy not good enough?
    Mods. Could we just ban any thread about this being it whingeing or gloating. It lowers the tone of the place.

    freeagent
    Free Member

    I don’t think the Scots should be offered another referendum.
    They had their opportunity in 2014, and chose to stay part of the UK – there were no caveats regarding EU membership that I remember.

    If their is another referendum for Scottish independence, I hope we all get a vote…

    BaronVonP7
    Free Member

    oh FFS give in gracefully.

    You didn’t get what you want in 1975 so why didn’t you can it then?

    thv3
    Free Member

    They had their opportunity in 2014, and chose to stay part of the UK – there were no caveats regarding EU membership that I remember.

    Except one of the main campaigning points of the No vote, was the “threat” of not remaining a EU citizen if the Independence vote was succesful. How times have changed!

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    I don’t think the Scots should be offered another referendum.

    Why not, the UK has had at two goes at the EU hokey cokey.

    rickmeister
    Full Member

    What if Article 50 and EU exit is not triggered ?

    Its not as if a politician hasn’t changed their mind or anything before…

    A referendum is in essence, an indicator of a view rather than something that needs legal compliance

    Gary_M
    Free Member

    What if Article 50 and EU exit is not triggered ?

    If the government decide not to exit the EU then it would be political suicide.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    What if Article 50 and EU exit is not triggered ?

    Even as a Remain supporter I don’t think that’s going to be the right course of action: the vote was to stay or leave not to then turn round and go “Oh sh**!”

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    freeagent – Member
    I don’t think the Scots should be offered another referendum…

    Too bad, it’s going to happen whether Westminster likes it or not.

    And going by the reasons the Leave campaign used for getting back control surely they will support it 🙂

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    for the Scots the big question is on terms of EU membership, will they inherit the current UK opt outs or will they be a new member

    new member means Schengen and the euro

    not sure it that will go down well

    I think she has moved too quickly, should have waited and seen what the final deal was

    and there is a good argument that NI should be joined with iScotland if that happens

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Crossed my mind. For a Remain led team to refuse to trigger Art50, would lead to revolt of some sort, whether internal divisions leading to votes of No confidence and leadership contests (looking like they won’t be needed anyway with people resigning already) or a proper on the streets by the people revolt.

    But what if Leave got ‘into power’, started looking properly at the plan, and decided actually their best option was to renegotiate our membership on their terms – and then recommend we don’t actually leave including to their supporters. Just say for example they managed to negotiate a deal where we remain in but have full control over immigration, which seems to have been the major decision point in this.

    Huge and massively unlikely whatiffery, but in some ways being right on the cusp of dropping the EU right in it (this isn’t good for the EU project either) with a mandate to blow it all apart if you don’t get the concessions they want now – are we now in a stronger bargaining position.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Antonine wall rebuilding anyone? Mugdock trails would be fun…

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    Too bad, it’s going to happen whether Westminster likes it or not.

    Ummm why? It’s not like there is a majority SNP government in Scotland at the moment.

    mikey74
    Free Member

    The original Scottish Referendum was undertaken in the environment where the UK was in Europe: Now that that the environment has changed i.e. the UK not in Europe, the Scottish are well within their rights to have another referendum on independence. Under the current circumstances, I wouldn’t begrudge them the break, even though I’d prefer it didn’t happen.

    rickmeister
    Full Member

    Mikey, the UK is still in Europe with a stated desire / intent to leave…. which may take up to 2 years from triggering Article 50 …

    So we are technically still in and bound by all the legislation until all A50 conditions are met.

    gonefishin
    Free Member

    The original Scottish Referendum was undertaken in the environment where the UK was in Europe: Now that that the environment has changed i.e. the UK not in Europe, the Scottish are well within their rights to have another referendum on independence. Under the current circumstances, I wouldn’t begrudge them the break, even though I’d prefer it didn’t happen.

    Whilst that is true, it is also true that the vote to have a referendum has to be won in either Westminster or the Scottish parliament. Unlike in 2014 the SNP do not currently have a majority in the Scottish parliament so are unlikely to win such a vote there, and I can’t see Westminster giving the green light on that one. There may well be increased calls for a referendum but at the moment I can’t see it happening. Realistically it wouldn’t be until next summer as it’s too late to prepare for and hold one this year so we’ll have a better idea of how things are going to pan out by then.

    I voted no in the last independence referendum and it is likely that I’d vote no in a new one too.

    jag61
    Full Member

    Be careful what you wish for Dave going in October ok fine but to be replaced by…
    Boris or Gove? NOOOOOOOOo

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    I don’t think the Scots should be offered another referendum.
    They had their opportunity in 2014, and chose to stay part of the UK – there were no caveats regarding EU membership that I remember.

    If their is another referendum for Scottish independence, I hope we all get a vote…

    Well one of the arguments put forward was that Scotland wouldn’t be a memeber of the EU on it’s own, if it’s not anyway then I’d agree with the SNP, that the situation has changed sufficiently that another referendum is quite valid.

    And this time I’d support them.

    (and on the second point, why, France didn’t get a vote last night?)

    oh FFS give in gracefully.
    Most of us have had to do that many times over the decades. We don’t usually spit out the dummy.
    Or is our form of democracy not good enough?
    Mods. Could we just ban any thread about this being it whingeing or gloating. It lowers the tone of the place.

    Judging by the conversations around the coffee machine this morning, most people with 2 passports are looking into going home, most people with dual nationality are applying for their other passport, and a lot of the rest of us are actively looking at Scotland or elsewhere in the EU.

    The £ dropped 10% this morning, that’s an extra 10% pay rise offered to each Junior Doctor who threatened to move abroad and Hunt called their bluff.

    Leave might have won with the support of a disenfranchised electorate, but I suspect a lot of people under 30 are now sufficiently peeved with the new right wing status quo and would now quite happily call themselves European rather than English.

    mikey74
    Free Member

    Mikey, the UK is still in Europe with a stated desire / intent to leave…. which may take up to 2 years from triggering Article 50 …

    So we are technically still in and bound by all the legislation until all A50 conditions are met.

    Yes, I am painfully aware of that: However, Scotland needs to move fast to get in before Article 50 is invoked, otherwise they’d have to renegotiate their entry in the EU, as I understand it.

    Edit: I agree, it is unlikely to happen in the given timescales, but that doesn’t remove their right to react to this change of circumstance.

    boriselbrus
    Free Member

    Whilst that is true, it is also true that the vote to have a referendum has to be won in either Westminster or the Scottish parliament. Unlike in 2014 the SNP do not currently have a majority in the Scottish parliament so are unlikely to win such a vote there

    Not true. They are 2 short of a majority, but the greens have 6 msps and are pro independence.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    whitestone – Member
    Those will be the EU officials appointed by our government along with the EU officials appointed by the other EU governments.

    But surely the point being made is that those officials are appointed by their governments, they’re not voted for by the people of their respective nations, and that’s what pisses a lot of people off; they also seem to be fairly ineffective when it comes to voting, especially for the UK, which often seems to be largely outnumbered. I can’t remember the figure, but the UK has been outvoted seventy-two times when attempting reforms, but I’m not certain out of how many actual attempts.

    bigbeard
    Free Member

    “What we do know, though, from official EU voting records is that the British government has voted ‘No’ to EU proposals on 56 occasions, abstained 70 times, and voted ‘Yes’ to legislative proposals 2,466 times since 1999. In other words, UK ministers were on the “winning side” 95% of the time, abstained 3% of the time, and were on the losing side 2%. Just pointing out how many times the UK government ‘lost’ is hence a misleading picture of what has happened.”

    from here

    molgrips
    Free Member

    If it leads to an independent England with only its own interests to look after, that may be good.

    Everyone forgets Wales.

    Wales will just become a conquered rump of England again.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    The £ dropped 10% this morning, that’s an extra 10% pay rise offered to each Junior Doctor who threatened to move abroad and Hunt called their bluff.

    The same happened in 1992, but once the markets stabilise, and the banks and hedge-fund sharks have got over their feeding frenzy, things will more than like go the other way, the traders will want Stirling to rally, so they can make bigger profits: buy low, sell high.

    Leave might have won with the support of a disenfranchised electorate, but I suspect a lot of people under 30 are now sufficiently peeved with the new right wing status quo and would now quite happily call themselves European rather than English.

    In that case, they might as well stay here, looking at the extreme right-wing growth across much of mainland Europe, in Greece, Austria, Germany, France…
    Not sure about Spain or Italy, but they both have a recent history of extremist governments, and with youth unemployment running near 50% in many countries, there’s not much hope being offered.

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    In that case, they might as well stay here, looking at the extreme right-wing growth across much of mainland Europe, in Greece, Austria, Germany, France…
    Not sure about Spain or Italy, but they both have a recent history of extremist governments, and with youth unemployment running near 50% in many countries, there’s not much hope being offered.

    I think you underestimate both;
    a) how mobile younger generations are, I’m 30 and can’t remember a time before £10 flights to anywhere in Europe. Paris is no longer somewhere you go on holiday as a tourist, you can go there for a night out. The world is much smaller than it used to be.
    b) A lot of people feel this is the straw which breaks the camels back, the feeling seems a mixture of “well nowhere can be much worse than the next 10 years of this” and “the baby boomers have ****ed us once too many” and leave just to make a statement.

    The dust will settle, but it’s going to be a long and bumpy road, and even I no longer feel invested in the future of this country and I’m usually one for jumping up and down espousing socialism and working together. If the country democratically want’s to act like this, then I’ve no inclination really to suppourt that. I’ve a mortgage here, but I don’t feel particularly ‘British’ anymore, I could have a mortgage anywhere in Europe, and a lot of the rest of the world.

    75% of people under 25 voted to remain. Those people have no ties, they have valuable degrees (which just got cheaper to pay off from abroad) and are used to the idea of living in different countries. 75% won’t leave, but each one is a massive loss to the economy and tax recipts.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    Maybe it’s because I’m old enough to have gone through bigger shitstorms than this, that I have confidence in the country pulling through quickly, things like three day weeks, various financial crashes, devaluations, etc, and we’ve always got through, mainly through historical global trade connections, whereas countries like Greece have never had the same sort of connections.
    Dunno, I just feel pretty positive about the future for Britain generally.

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    75% of people under 25 who voted voted to remain. Those people have no ties, they have valuable degrees (which just got cheaper to pay off from abroad) and are used to the idea of living in different countries. 75% won’t leave, but each one is a massive loss to the economy and tax recipts.

    FIFY

    cinnamon_girl
    Full Member

    Maybe it’s because I’m old enough to have gone through bigger shitstorms than this, that I have confidence in the country pulling through quickly, things like three day weeks, various financial crashes, devaluations, etc, and we’ve always got through, mainly through historical global trade connections, whereas countries like Greece have never had the same sort of connections.
    Dunno, I just feel pretty positive about the future for Britain generally.

    +1 good post CZ.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    CountZero – Member
    …Dunno, I just feel pretty positive about the future for Britain generally.

    Which part?

    Scotland will be gone, there’s an even chance NI will be gone, and London is making noises.

    However it may be the best thing that’s happened to England as a country.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 41 total)

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