*slow hand clap*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41408195

Absolutely ridiculous that there was a ban in the fist place.
Backward little nation.

http://newsthump.com/2017/09/26/saudi-arabia-definitely-great-for-ladies-now-theyre-allowed-to-drive/

It’s almost as if they want it to appear there’s a degree of positive change for public relations purposes… now why might that be?

jekkyl – Member

*slow hand clap*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-41408195

Absolutely ridiculous that there was a ban in the fist place.
Backward little nation.

Racist.

Bound to lead to more crashes and poorly parked cars…

Enlighten us Mr Jive do.

Here comes a bunch of different pictures of people you have no clue about with a cryptic tag line between each one

Here comes a bunch of different pictures of people you have no clue about with a cryptic tag line between each one

Makes you think….

Here comes a bunch of different pictures of people you have no clue about with a cryptic tag line between each one

….or Facebook as I like to call it.

The announcement was made in the UN and was greeted with a round of applause. I think it would have been more appropriate for them all to fall about laughing.
The UN are investigating war crimes by SA in Yemen. SA needed some feel good vibes in the UN as a result. I guess they are expecting the investigation in Yemen to bare some pretty rotten fruit.

Bound to lead to more crashes and poorly parked cars…

No doubt, 15 million people (give or take) who’ve probably never even sat behind the wheel have just been allowed to (do they even have a test down there?) – carnage will follow, even by the **** up standards of Saudi.

One day, when we don’t need oil any more they’re revert back to being nomadic dessert tribes roaming about the place cutting each others heads off. It’ll take about a fortnight.

nomadic dessert tribes

Pudding it about a bit?

Pudding it about a bit?

Living in a yoghhurt, no doubt.

War crimes in Yemen, don’t be silly, King Salman has always been very charitable…

For example:

The Saudi High Commission for Relief of Bosnia and Herzegovina was a charity organization founded in 1993 by then Prince Salman of Saudi Arabia

two employees of the Commission, including a cell member who was in telephone contact with Osama bin Laden aid and al Qaeda operational commander Abu Zubaydah

P-Jay – Member

One day, when we don’t need oil any more they’re revert back to being nomadic dessert tribes roaming about the place cutting each others heads off. It’ll take about a fortnight.

They supply something like 8-15% of the west’s oil. They are the UK, France and America’s number one weapons customer though. Alternative suppliers could be found for the oil but then they’d buy their weapons elsewhere and probably tank western economies so for now we all need to pretend they aren’t one of the most brutally oppressive regimes on the planet.

The Owl looked up to the stars above,
And sang to a small guitar,
“O lovely Pussy! O Pussy, my love,
What a beautiful Pussy you are,
You are,
You are!
What a beautiful Pussy you are!”

Is that Trump with a bunch of Morris dancers?

Anyhow, when I worked in Saudi in the 80s, some prince or other said it wasn’t illegal for women to drive, but they just didn’t!

Bound to lead to more crashes and poorly parked cars…

Have you driven in Saudi?
I think women drivers would have to try really hard to drive worse than the men there.

The Saudi High Commission for Relief of Bosnia and Herzegovina was a charity organization founded in 1993 by then Prince Salman of Saudi Arabia

two employees of the Commission, including a cell member who was in telephone contact with Osama bin Laden aid and al Qaeda operational commander Abu Zubaydah

Sure I’ve heard that name before somewhere…

Ah yes…

Robert Baer wrote an article for “Time” in 2007. He said CIA Director Michael Hayden has admitted the CIA destroyed interrogation tapes of Abu Zubaydah. Also in the article, Mr. Baer said Zubaydah had two ATM cards on him when he was captured. One was issued by a bank in Saudi Arabia, with ties to the royal family. Telephone records found in Zubaydah’s house included calls to the United States. The calls stopped on the tenth of September, and resumed again on the sixteenth of September. Those are the same dates he mentioned in the sidewalk interview.

http://content.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1692518,00.html

As far as I knew, Mr. Baer had never revealed who Zubaydah was calling in the United States, until that moment on the sidewalk. The Bandar he was referring to is Prince Bandar bin Sultan, the Saudi ambassador to the United States from 1983 to 2005. I knew it was him because he had a home in Aspen, Colorado in 2001. It was a 32 room mansion built in 1991 and sold in 2012. Mr. Baer specified “Bandar in Aspen”.

Prince Bandar is a longtime friend of the Bush family, nicknamed “Bandar Bush”. He tutored George W. Bush on foreign affairs. He was very involved with the official business of the Bush administration.

There is a famous photo of Prince Bandar relaxing at the White House on September 13, 2001. He is sitting next to Dick Cheney, across from Condi Rice and President Bush. He has his legs stretched out and looks relaxed. And, according to Mr. Baer, he had just received a phone call from Abu Zubaydah three days earlier, one day before 9/11. The evidence in the 28 pages supports Mr. Baer’s statement and explains how the phone calls occurred.

(Pic from: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=bandar_bin_sultan)

Bit odd to think that when King Abdullah died (also mentioned in link above) the British flag was lowered in tribute to a king who wouldn’t allow women to drive…

Just don’t mention terrorism

or

where the funding comes from…

Bandar bin Sultan… that name rings a bell; hmm, wasn’t he a guest at Charles and Camilla’s wedding; must’ve been well vetted by the security services, right?

Hmm…

Melanie Shaw

Oh well, maybe it’s because they’ve been mates since the 70s

Still, since the Saudis are chairing the UN Human Rights Council and on the UN Women’s Rights Commission, perhaps there’ll be some reduction in death sentences for adultery, witchcraft and the like

I trained a couple of Saudi Air Force guys a few years back. Both nice lads. I always think of them when I see (understandably) negative stuff about their society; a nation isn’t a homogeneous blob of good or bad people. Change is coming over there, but slooooowly. It would be nice to look 100 years into the future and see where the whole middle east is at!

Well it’s a start I suppose

Means they can get a lift home from the pub at least.

Oh…

I trained a couple of Saudi Air Force guys a few years back. Both nice lads. I always think of them when I see (understandably) negative stuff about their society; a nation isn’t a homogeneous blob of good or bad people

What you’re saying is bang on… it’s easy to criticise Saudi Arabia as a whole, much like we can criticise the US for providing weapons and political support, or the UK for providing weapons, political support and being key to the establishment of the Wahhabist Saudi Monarchy in the 1st place, but the fact of the matter is, it’s the governments and leaders who we’re really criticising.

That said, even though the guys you trained were nice blokes, who might have been motivated by the chance to do good and protect others, they could very well be the same guys dropping bombs on kids in Yemen.

It gets tricky then though, because is that their fault, or is it the orders they receive and the careers they can’t afford to throw away…

jivehoneyjive – Member

It gets tricky then though, because is that their fault, or is it the orders they receive and the careers they can’t afford to throw away…

It doesn’t really. Superior orders isn’t an excuse if the orders they execute violate international law or basic human morality. That applies to blowing up schools and hospitals with British made weaponry as well as agents of the Saudi state, whether it’s police, judges or executioners murdering women for adultery or murdering atheists for not believing in their stupid superstitions and taboos.

Ah, the Nuremberg defence! These 2 were air traffic controllers so unlikely to be dropping anything! That said, we’re part of the system, so I’ve never liked slapping the moral conundrum on the aircrew. I’m content with the part I and my colleagues have played, which down at our level means dealing with the situation in front of you as best you can, in this case training a couple of guys to control aircraft. In the Yemen case, it sounds like a classic example of how to carry out an air counter insurgency badly, especially around targeting, rules of engagement etc. The big question is at what level the blame lies; are the violations we’ve seen deliberate policy or poor execution of commanders’ intents?
Even within the government, there are modernising and reactionary individuals and factions. Everybody has to operate within their own political reality, I suspect a Saudi calling for Western-style human rights tomorrow would get short shrift. You can argue that more will be achieved through a softly-softly reform process.

airtragic – Member

In the Yemen case, it sounds like a classic example of how to carry out an air counter insurgency badly, especially around targeting, rules of engagement etc. The big question is at what level the blame lies; are the violations we’ve seen deliberate policy or poor execution of commanders’ intents?

Well according to the UN investigation there were “widespread and systematic” attacks on civilian targets in violation of international humanitarian law’

and

“The panel documented that the coalition had conducted airstrikes targeting civilians and civilian objects, in violation of international humanitarian law, including camps for internally displaced persons and refugees; civilian gatherings, including weddings; civilian vehicles, including buses; civilian residential areas; medical facilities; schools; mosques; markets, factories and food storage warehouses; and other essential civilian infrastructure, such as the airport in Sana’a, the port in Hudaydah and domestic transit routes.”

so there’s really no big question.

Everybody has to operate within their own political reality, I suspect a Saudi calling for Western-style human rights tomorrow would get short shrift. You can argue that more will be achieved through a softly-softly reform process.

Everyone within that system has to operate within the reality of that system, yes. People outside of that system, foreign workers, foreign subcontractors and employees of foreign companies and foreign governments do not. It should be abundantly obvious that the Saudi regime is every bit as morally reprehensible and oppressive as any in living memory.

All excuses for dealing with them seem to boil down to “they have lots of money”.