I still can’t believe someone hasn’t realised the potential that place has (other than the locals and riders). Decent facilities and a mechanical uplift would make that place a mecca for UK mountain biking..

Get on it then – bike park scotland awaits! Things like bpw need that person/group of people to take that initiative and put things into action.

Talking of natural trails, passed the drip-ins to the ferociously steep home-made/natural trails at Sirhowy today. They look pretty hardcore…

Biggest problem there is the 200m of ascent required to get back to the top for another go 🙂

Wales should deliver more. Afan could have developed the same uplift and trails but didn’t. And they could have done it way before BPW. It’s a market economy? Deliver what people want.

You do know that Wales is essentially a third world country, don’t you? It’s why Afan etc. had a lot of help from the EU, to help build tourism. It’s also a government project, so in that respect Afan has a dwell among and compete with all the other projects that helps Wales create jobs and generate income.

I’m not defending Afan or BPW, but sweeping statements like ‘Wales should deliver more’ are akin to advising a Premier League manager how to run his team from the bar of a local pub.

Get on it then – bike park scotland awaits! Things like bpw need that person/group of people to take that initiative and put things into action.

Agreed. That ‘somebody should do something!’ could be you.

always enjoyed Afan but i do think the huge amount of logging done kind of ruined the fell of the place a bit.

Saying that I haven’t been back for a few years so maybe it’s got a bit better?

milky1980 – Member
P-jay – I was talking to one of the drivers who had just started and he said they were asked to try and get a minimum amount of uplifts in per day. He was taking that as a minimum so wanted to get a few more in whereas some of the others were deliberately pacing themselves to only get in that minimum amount. It was a direct split between those who rode and those who don’t according to him. He was visibly peeved off with it. As long as they arrived, loaded a full load and got in the requisite number of uplifts they have done their job.

I like BPW, it’s a great facility, but it too often leaves me feeling like it’s treating me as a number to balance the books. The dig crew are great to talk to and do a great job but the enthusiasm that was there at the beginning has waned somewhat and has been replaced with a bit of a corporate culture. Inevitable as the place has grown I suppose but it does grate with me.

Was that a very fit looking guy with a long neck? He’s a bit odd, seemed a bit paranoid and twitchy.

Anyway, it might have been true, then but in more recent months, maybe more than a year or so they’re given a set speed to drive ‘enforced’ by Tachograph. It’s partly because before they did, the drivers would go a bit wild and it was wrecking the road and vehicles (I know of at least one who crashed off the side of the road coming back down) meaning closing more for maintenance and less vans.

It’s actually brilliantly organised (I’m a geek for processes and systems) it’s a single carriageway road, for the most part they’re using the same road up and down, but there’s up to 8 vans on it (maybe more now) so they have to move in a certain way so they don’t end up face to face trying to pass (they can’t really on most of it) so they all move at the same speed – when they leave the pick-up point they radio the other drives in broken valley’s speech and it sends the other to their next passing point.

I’m sure someone said 6 Vans was the max they could have before, but someone managed to update the ‘system’ to allow more. At 6 they were sort of stuck, the only way they though to improve it would be massive upgrade the uplift road and make it a loop, or the leap to a lift – but it’s a leap of faith.

I take your point about feeling a bit ‘cold’ sometimes, I don’t know who manages the business element of BPW (doubt it’s Rowan, he seems so chill) but they seems a solid business manager, there are procedures for everything and it makes for smooth running, these sorts of places easily fall into chaos otherwise. I personally don’t like working with strict processes, ironically I like building them, but hate them myself.

always enjoyed Afan but i do think the huge amount of logging done kind of ruined the fell of the place a bit.

Saying that I haven’t been back for a few years so maybe it’s got a bit better?

Depends on how far back you’re talking, but sadly, not much.

The new descent on White’s is great, but the old version just isn’t the same without trees, Penhydd is sad now, Jim Cro is fast if souless, Hidden Valley or whatever it’s called is just rough, the surface just blew / washed away and it’s just unpleasant to ride, not tech enough to ride slow, too rough to ride fast.

always enjoyed Afan but i do think the huge amount of logging done kind of ruined the fell of the place a bit.

Unintentional pun? 😆

Afan (and all the other trail centres) are working forests, once the trees are the size required and there’s a market then they are going to be felled. Trail centres just add to the cash flow to help with the fifty years or so between planting and felling.

When I first started going to BPW I was surprised at how many females and young kids there were. Coming from a skatepark background you never used to see many women or young kids really giving it a go!

My gripes with BPW is the queue for collecting your uplift pass in the morning, the lack of showers and the condition of the entrance road from the roundabout to the car park!

Afan (and all the other trail centres) are working forests, once the trees are the size required and there’s a market then they are going to be felled. Trail centres just add to the cash flow to help with the fifty years or so between planting and felling.

I believe the majority of trees felled at Afan were to stop the spread of a disease attacking the larch.

I believe the majority of trees felled at Afan were to stop the spread of a disease attacking the larch.

Yeah this, I get the impression their remit has changed too – they could have replanted everywhere with more fast growing pine trees, but they didn’t.

They seem to want to either plant native tress or just leave them for nature to do it’s thing.

Seems more about creating carbon sinks, nature sanctuaries and stuff for people to do these days.

It’s almost a shame though, they harvested the top of Cwmcarn in 2005/2006ish and it’s still pretty barren now, I guess the usual ‘Xmas’ tree type trees they used to plant would be a decent size in 10/12 years.

I live local to BPW and Afan, but never really goto BPW, it’s a tourist destination. The local scene in Afan is thriving, I ride three times a week and never touch trail centre tracks. BPW and the trail centres are just scrapping the surface. Q

Biggest problem there is the 200m of ascent required to get back to the top for another go

A max 30 min ride back up?!

Even I know you’re capable of this, moly… 😉

rob8624 – Member
I live local to BPW and Afan, but never really goto BPW, it’s a tourist destination. The local scene in Afan is thriving, I ride three times a week and never touch trail centre tracks. BPW and the trail centres are just scrapping the surface. Q

You need to invite us non locals !

It’s 5km and 250m all fire road. Doable, but you wouldn’t get many runs in 🙂

For me a pedal up day is 4 runs. More if you pick the right trail and skip the last bit – it’s 20 mins or so from the part where the uplift road crosses the XC climb to where Terry’s really starts,

deadkenny – Member

BPW definitely has had a negative impact on trail centre riding in south Wales. Speaking with people who run B&Bs and the like round Afan they say the same and find they’re losing business.

That’s not just about BPW- Afan is pretty neglected now and the changes it’s had lately were through necessity and some of them pretty shoddy. COnsidering that people complain if there’s a big puddle at Glentress, finding lines entirely blocked with brambles and hte like at afan was a surprise.

For us, we basically only do south wales as part of a tour, I doubt I’d be in there if it wasn’t for BPW so Rose Cottage get us for a week every year while we bomb around FOD, BPW, BMCC and Afan.

“Im definitely NOT having a go at folk who only ride trail centres.
yeah you are, even if you don’t think you are. In print, statements that start “I’ve never understood why…” imply superiority, they imply that it’s a non question.

I’m sure you can understand completely why folk would choose a trail centre over a more natural ride, it’s blindingly obvious to even the most dimwitted and you’d have to be pretty dishonest with yourself and others if you pretend you can’t. Which is why the “I don’t understand” statement is so disingenuous”

Spot on chap.

I’ve never ridden BPW, and I expect that I never will.

We (my wife and I) visited a couple of years ago, looking to ride the next day (it was typical Welsh weather – so tipping it down but a great forecast for the following day). We ride a hardtail tandem, and we’d already enquired about riding. When we got there we were told that we couldn’t ride as “A decision to not allow tandems were made chiefly due to the trails not being built with them in mind, our trails feature drop-offs, wall drops, jumps and tight berms, which were (maybe incorrectly) perceived to be more risky if riding a tandem”
As the trail builder at Ae said when we were chatting with him later in the year – ” none of them are built for tandems”.

Just to be clear – we weren’t planning massive jumps, stupid drop offs – but we did want to explore the trails we thought we’d be capable of – fast long flowy descents are meat and drink to us. Tight technical stuff’s a challenge – and that’s part of the fun – the “can we do that” – together. But inclusivity stopped at us.

So, we go to Afan, 7 Stanes etc. if we want to ride a trail centre, or expore the Chilterns/Berkshire/Hampshire if not. And for a uick blast we go to Swinley as it’s round the corner. We’re pretty happy – there’s still lots to explore and we’ve still got all those £8 we’d have been charged (or would it be £16?) if we rode BPW.

I can’t think of anything more annoying than meeting a tandem on at a trail centre, so I’m glad you are staying away.

What if it was an E-tandem ?

I’m surprised BPW is having a negative effect. Everyone we’ve booked tickets there we’ve built a weekend (or longer) round it. So I day at BPW as a minimum would mean two nights accommodation, two pub dinners and cake and snacks. We see BPW as a big reason to visit the area.

Any tandem. If I ride at a trail centre it is too go fast, and not to get held up by tandems, dogs, unicycles, runners or other nonsense.

Would you be as annoyed by meeting a slower rider on a solo bike?

dragon – Member
Any tandem. If I ride at a trail centre it is too go fast, and not to get held up by tandems, dogs, unicycles, runners or other nonsense

Sorry dragon, it was a reference to another post.

Thanks for that constructive criticism dragon. Big assumption that you’d be held up isn’t it….

none of them are built for tandems”.

Just to be clear – we weren’t planning massive jumps, stupid drop offs – but we did want to explore the trails we thought we’d be capable of – fast long flowy descents are meat and drink to us. Tight technical stuff’s a challenge – and that’s part of the fun – the “can we do that” – together. But inclusivity stopped at us

I’d like to see somebody ride a tandem down Bonneville. 😆

Thanks for that constructive criticism dragon. Big assumption that you’d be held up isn’t it….

idiot

To be fair to BPW I don’t think they built it with tandems in mind!

Would you be as annoyed by meeting a slower rider on a solo bike?

Someone slower on a bike is just someone slower on a bike. Someone on a slower bike is a different matter. Riding a tandem is deliberately slowing yourself down (on a DH track anyway).

I’d not be bothered coming up behind a beginner on a hardtail. I’d start to get pissed off if I’d come for a days DH riding and got stuck behind tandems, unicycles, CX bikes and anyone else deliberately riding inappropriate bikes.

It’s 5km and 250m all fire road. Doable, but you wouldn’t get many runs in

It’s not that tough – I’ve done as many pedal up’s as I have uplifted (8 in total) there & i’m hardly an XC whippet.

Granted, I was hanging by the end, but it’s really not that bad. The worst bit is the first section of fire road (if you chose not to ride the trail). The rest is an easy spin.

I doubt the BPW safety assessment and related insurance takes tandems into account. The speed a tandem could hit down those blues would be terrifying when paired with berms made for a much shorter wheelbase bike.

how did this get from a positive thread to crap cafe food and frikking TANDEMS clogging up a trail centre? a hardtail tandem no less… get in the sea. cant believe the tandem owner is miffed at being turned away. best debate in ages this.

good old STW lol

berms made for a much shorter wheelbase bike.

Geometrons are banned too???

Even the longest Geometron is less than 1400mm wheelbase vs typical modern trail bike at about 1200mm. Tandems are more like 1800mm+.

I’m surprised at BPW having a negative effect – we seem to go to S.Wales that much more often now to ride BPW one day and other places the other day or two.

I doubt the BPW safety assessment and related insurance takes tandems into account. The speed a tandem could hit down those blues would be terrifying when paired with berms made for a much shorter wheelbase bike.

Exactly. They’ve no way to enforce the tandem riders just stick to certain tracks so I don’t blame them for not taking the risk.

Those of you who visit BPW – what else do you do while in South Wales? (if anything)

I’ve only been once, but did Afan W2 & Penhydd the day before. Stayed near Afan rather than BPW.

Those of you who visit BPW – what else do you do while in South Wales? (if anything)

In a BPW context, nothing. I drive over there (2 hour 15m) do the day, eat lunch and drive straight home.

We’ve done the odd ‘weekender’ in Wales using Afan as the base, but generally that’s very rare.

I spend more time in Wales at other times, but that’s family stuff, so i’m guessing not part of the actual question.

Those of you who visit BPW – what else do you do while in South Wales? (if anything)

Depends. Had a few long weekends based round BPW. Afan is the obvious partner but we’ve also combined it with a road trip down to Brechfa.
We’ve also had a few week-long breaks in south Wales during which we always have a day at BPW. Then a day at Afan, a trip to Brechfa and possibly Cwm Rhaeadr. We’ve been to the Darren trails a couple of times and enjoyed BMCC.
We usually have a couple of natural rides and a non-bikes day. For instance one year we went to Big Pit. One year we did the waterfalls walk. Or maybe a day out in Cardiff.
To be honest there’s loads to do in the area but I would be lying if I said BPW wasn’t a major draw.
Should Wales open up access I suspect we will be there at every opportunity.

It’s 5km and 250m all fire road. Doable, but you wouldn’t get many runs in
It’s not that tough – I’ve done as many pedal up’s as I have uplifted (8 in total) there & i’m hardly an XC whippet.

I was talking about Sirhowy rather than BPW where there is no uplift.