After the watershed

Dramatic title, I know, but I think the author has a strong case. We have a government ruling without mandate, which we did not vote for. It imposed a policy which was ruled unfair by a court. So it changed the law retrospectively.

The basic idea of democracy is that if you don’t like the government, you can (at widely-spaced intervals) kick them out and vote in somebody different. But in our system, there’s no-one different to vote for, and the people don’t get who they voted for anyway.

Get yourself over to the Cypriot thread and be thankful you are not under the yoke of the unelected totalitarian regime that is the EU

EDIT: for cross posting SHHH he is one of the arguing it

Vote for Donald:

We have a government ruling without mandate, which we did not vote for.

Wot?

And can someone fill me in on the actual news, cos all that article does is say that there’s no news coverage of it.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/after-the-watershed/
I have absolutely no idea what he’s talking about – anyone got any ideas/links?

More here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/workfare-why-did-so-many-labour-mps-accept-this-brutal-unforgivable-attack-on-vulnerable-people-8542193.html

The basic idea of democracy is that if you don’t like the government, you can (at widely-spaced intervals) kick them out and vote in somebody different.

Hmm, former Eton public schoolboy, or former Eton public schoolboy; decisions, decisions…

Hey, we’re subjects not citizens so they can do what they like.

If this was a real democracy then there would not be a superior house of government full of unelected aristocrats, anglican bishops, and appointees with the ability to mangle any legislation, and all topped by a monarchy.

So know your place, be grateful for the crumbs you are allowed to keep of the bread you have made, and don’t forget to tug the forelock when one of the born-to-rule class speaks.

Meanwhile 2014 is eagerly awaited by certain northern would-be citizens.

The basic idea of democracy is that if you don’t like the government, you can (at widely-spaced intervals) kick them out and vote in somebody different.

Lets get labour back in. They have an outstanding record on the rugged defense of justice, respect from all the institutions upholding national and international law, and a constant, unflincing championing of citizens rights

Government action deemed illegal. government liable to pay damages to those who lost out because of illegal action. government use time machine to retrospectively change the law.no compensation now payable. Labour do nothing to oppose this.

We are back in the circle, of politicians not caring about the people who pay for them…

If this was a real democracy then there would not be a superior house of government full of unelected aristocrats, anglican bishops, and appointees with the ability to mangle any legislation, and all topped by a monarchy.

As if it would make any sodding difference at all?

Where’s it better than here?

Government action deemed illegal. government liable to pay damages to those who lost out because of illegal action. government use time machine to retrospectively change the law.no compensation now payable. Labour do nothing to oppose this.

Nicely summed up

Ex post facto laws. But hey they only effect the shirkers and the feckless unemployed so why should we care.

Roll on 2014

2015?

Lifer – I think 2014 refers to the 2014 scottish independence referendum.

By 2015, I guess you’re referring to the General Election? As a matter of interest, what do you think voting the opposition in will do to improve the situation? (Given the cross-party nature of this latest instance)

The government should not have the power to retrospectively change the law. It’s a frightening threat to civil liberty.

we don’t live in a democracy, the EU is as democratic as the UK in general. we vote for Mps, we Vote for MEPs we vote , it is the governments that we vote for that apoint the council of ministers etc.

Take the EU out of the picture give the Tories and UKIP the free reign they want and watch what is left of employment rights evaporate.

I hear Shetland is now looking for independence from scotland…

Why is it that the UK is one of the most centralised countries in Europe? why is there no power in the regions, why do local councils have so little power. Oh yes Postcode lottery!!!! You get the whinging that you have a post code lottery but everything is run from london!!!!

organdonor – Member
Lifer – I think 2014 refers to the 2014 scottish independence referendum.

Ah that would make sense because:

By 2015, I guess you’re referring to the General Election? As a matter of interest, what do you think voting the opposition in will do to improve the situation? (Given the cross-party nature of this latest instance)

Not much. Until we have more, smaller parties with a smaller share of the seats there is no reason for politicians to become more representative and answerable to the electorate.

Labour MPs abstaining on this was at best disappointing. But not surprising.

I hear Shetland is now looking for independence from scotland…

Well, one Lib Dem MSP keeps wittering on about it* – I don’t think anyone has bothered asking the population of Shetland. But if they want independence, good luck to them.

*who is also quite involved with the Better Together campaign. Odd that someone who wants to keep the UK together is also talking about independence for Shetland, isn’t it?

who is also quite involved with the Better Together campaign. Odd that someone who wants to keep the UK together is also talking about independence for Shetland, isn’t it?

Funny that isn’t it. One might even accuse him of being disingenuous.

Politicians? Disingenuous? 😯

What gets me is polititians can’t work out why no one votes.
It’s easy, they’re all useless **** ****, who don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves and their **** mates from eton.
Same shite, different coloured tie.

Roll on 2014

Is that a type of deodorant?

bencooper – Member
More here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/workfare-why-did-so-many-labour-mps-accept-this-brutal-unforgivable-attack-on-vulnerable-people-8542193.html
Cheers, makes sense now.

Have any of you considered not voting for labour/Tory/libdem at the next election.

Other parties exist.

I think the major parties may be in for a big surprise, by exactly how many people are planning on doing precisely that piemonster

Good

Alternatively, Government wins substantive points in legal battle but loses one small technical point, which makes the regulations ultra vires. Government appeals decision, but in the meantime re-enacts the regulations so there are compliant with extant judgement to restore the position to what parliament thought they were voting for. When described like this, it is really not that controversial, although I am personally anti retrospective legislation, even when it is aimed at tax avoiders like Barclays.

uselesshippy – Member
What gets me is polititians can’t work out why no one votes.

IMO it’s in the current lots (the big 3)’s interest for low turnouts. Big turnouts may lead to a coaltion with some of the newer parties who don’t know the ‘rules’.

mefty – Member
Alternatively, Government wins substantive points in legal battle but loses one small technical point, which makes the regulations ultra vires. Government appeals decision, but in the meantime re-enacts the regulations so there are compliant with extant judgement to restore the position to what parliament thought they were voting for. When described like this, it is really not that controversial, although I am personally anti retrospective legislation, even when it is aimed at tax avoiders like Barclays.

Finding that stopping benefits for people who refused work fare was illegal is not a small technical point.

And describing it like that is glorious spin.

piemonster – Member
Have any of you considered not voting for labour/Tory/libdem at the next election.

Other parties exist.

Haven’t voted for them at the last 2, thanks. (But have voted!)

What I find worrying is that rather than vote for one of the other parties than the top 3 the general consensus seems to be not to vote at all, as if that sends some sort of message.

Bizarre attitude but a lot seem to do it, and then complain about the results afterwards.

The only election I haven’t voted in since being old enough to vote was for the local Police Commissioner and that was mainly because I could find no useful info on any of the candidates and the one campaigner who stuck a leaflet through my letter box wasn’t interesting in talking to me.

The regulations were incorrectly implemented, that is a technical implementation error, the substantive point was that the whole policy breached human rights law and the Government won on this – so I don’t think it is an unreasonable description. But it obviously paints the judgement in the best possible light, but that seems reasonable when every other article referred to on this thread does the opposite.

We have a government ruling without mandate, which we did not vote for.

Who’s we?

Without the West Lothian question the Conservatives would have won a majority of 21 seats in the 2010 election!

Why have we had Scottish MP’s voting on English matters? Thats truly people who we did not vote for ruling without mandate!

Roll on 2014 indeed – its win-win for the Tories!

Have any of you considered not voting for labour/Tory/libdem at the next election.

Other parties exist.

Like UKIP (loons), BNP (bigger loons) and the Greens (quaint loons)?

and the Greens (quaint loons)

Out of interest, why do you consider the Greens to be loons ?

Who’s we?

Without the West Lothian question the Conservatives would have won a majority of 21 seats in the 2010 election!

What’s the WLQ got to do with a general election?

Oh, and Scottish votes haven’t swung any election since WWII.

piemonster – Member
Have any of you considered not voting for labour/Tory/libdem at the next election.
Other parties exist.

Yup I voted Green at the last election. Bit pointless though.

You’ve got to think of it as a long-term change. If no one votes for Greens then no one will vote for Greens. Once folk see that it’s a real option – one that might actually result in getting an MP or two – it’ll swing pretty quick.

might actually result in getting an MP or two

They already have an MP 🙂