i'm asking as i'm preparing a discussion lesson for tomorrow about education. i'm pretty sure they'll ask me how the system works in the UK and to be honest i couldn't honestly tell them.

the german system is, relative to ours, fairly complicated. kids start at 6/7 years old and at the age of ten it is decided for them which level of school they'll attend.

there are four different schools whereas i believe we have (primarily and excluding private) two. they have four different schools. if you end up in either of the less academic schools then your chances in life are greatly reduced.

only finishers from Gynasium can go directly to uni. if you come from one of the other schools you can enter uni after having resat two to three years of classes and you are then restricted to which unis you can attend.

personally i think it is an awful and outdated system (started by the Prussians in 1600-something). it creates division between children at a young age, encourages elitism, labels kids as 'thick' and produces a whole lot of stress for families (no-one wants there little Frederick being sent to Hauptschule)
movement between the schools is possible, but in the case of moving up is rare.

so, with regard to the UK:

how does the school system work?

at what age do the kids start school?

after primary/junior school what options are there? grammar, comprehensive….

AS/A-levels from 16-18.

Uni after that. what are the prerequisites to studying?

what would you like to change?

thanks
J

I'd get some teachers that could spell for a start 😀

Scotland is different – as is NI IIRC. There is no "british" school system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Scotland

I wouldn't even say there's an english school system. There's still quite a bit of variation between counties in terms of what schools exist.

Ban religious schools.
Ban religion from school (in any form).
Do at least one hour of sport a day (with support for multiple choices of sport).
Make athletic achievement equivalent to academic achievement.
Make kids eat school dinners.
Make school dinners healthy.
Make school hours 9 to 5.
Ban homework.
Use military standards of discipline.
Limit university to the top 15% (at most).

That pretty much covers it.

UK: some kids are sent to school whilst other are home (un)educated. They start at five and are forced to wear uniforms and they go through a church-led military compatible indoctrination into British values. They're streamed even though the teachers say they aren't and all get shoved through GCSEs at 16 which differentiate between a low standard and totally illiterate. A-levels used to sort the wheat from the chaff but as anyone with an IQ over a hundred now gets three As it's down to how rich your parents are as to how many degrees you get.

France: Kids start at two and have a choice between Catho and state laïque. They all do le programme de l'éducation nationale which produces free-thinking revolutionary philosophers that are awarded the BAC if they ahve paid a minimum of attention (80% pass). As university is cheap lots go funded by parents, the state, odd jobs or ever odder jobs and the vast majority are rejected as failures at the end of the first year. Rich kids do Prépa and go to grandes écoles whilst futés ones do Erasmus. Most then sign on at the ANPE and the élite retrain as plumbers.

Germany: it's really not as bad as you make out Alpin as the "failures" that go to Hauptschule have as much chance of finding work as those leaving university at 28 as the most over-qualified Europeans.

All the systems are elitiste, that's what exams are there for to give the elite pieces of paper. In England it depends on where you are born and how much money your parents have, in France how bright you are at 19 and in Germany how bright you are at 10.

as the most over-qualified Europeans.

yup, i'd agree with that.

i think there is too much emphasis put on going to uni. what difference does it make when every other bugger has a degree.

i think the uniform thing is a good thing. kids realise they are at school, not some fashion a parade. uniforms are banned in germany as it reminds too many about the enforced uniform-wearing during the 30's. odd though as elsewhere in public life i think they love wearing uniforms and 'belonging' to a club.

re. the church led thing. here in germany they supposedly banned religious iconology in schools but allow segregated church-led lessons where catholics learn about the failings of the protestants and vice-versa.

f*cking religion.

They start at five

Wish someone had told me my eldest started when she was 4.

Kids (myself included a few years ago) are trained, not educated.

being able to recite something, doesnt mean one understands it. but it does pass exams.

when I'm King, above "algaes bra" and "Communication" and "media studies" will be : How to wire a plug, how to tell if your actually ill, not go the hospital at the first sign of a sniffle, etc etc.

training people to be engineers and accountants at age 12, before they can look after themselves, and thier neighbours, and the world around them properly, is missing a trick mefinks.

….IMO

How to wire a plug, how to tell if your actually ill, not go the hospital at the first sign of a sniffle, etc etc.

you want schools to do this?

changing a plug with a butter knife is something your dad should show you, ignoring people who think they are sick is the job of every loving mother.

If you want the state to raise your children just have them put into care 😀

Personally, I'd ban all religious indoctrination and also ban private education.
Just because Mummy and Daddy inherited half of Suffolk shouldn't mean that Tarquin and Jemima have the right to a superior education.

And as for people who 'home educate', words fail me:
Your children will ALL end up high in a clock tower, holding a grudge and a high powered rifle, so that's all going to stop.

And whilst I'm at it, we'll get rid of private health care, re-nationalise the utilities and transport system.

But then I'm just a nasty old Socialist, and there's only about four of us left, so take no notice. 🙂

And as for people who 'home educate', words fail me:
Your children will ALL end up high in a clock tower, holding a grudge and a high powered rifle, so that's all going to stop.

amen to that, I ran a workshop once for home-educated children and their parents. One of the most upsetting things I've ever had to do

So is Germany such a successful nation because of or despite of their educational system?

We've agreed that our oldest won't start school til 6. At the moment, she's 4, and she and her younger brother are being taught by me at a low intensity- as they show interest in stuff, it's taught to them. The only downsides, as far as I'm concerned, is that they need to be enrolled in a few extra curricular activities to keep their social life going..

Agree with the university thing- it seems that these days most decent jobs have a degree as a pre-requisite, irrespective of whether that degree is of direct help or not.

Sure, university education teaches you some 'soft skills', but we waste an awful lot of money sending people to university prior to them doing jobs that could be done out of school with on the job, or day release/night schooling.

In IT (the only field I really have experience, the majority of older people I've worked with (and I count myself in that category) don't have degrees, and have successfully transitioned through 25 odd years of technology changes- several came through the career change programmes in the 70's from manual or similar backgrounds. Today's recruits always have at least one degree, often a masters or Phd on top, and rarely have any more aptitude/drive/skills than would somebody coming off the back of a short intensive training program, eg somebody transitioning in from a job on the business side.

Fashion parade or youngsters expressing their personalities? It makes life easy for teachers: hoody chav = hoody chav, tart = tart, clean cut youth = clean cut youth, anorak = anorak. No error possible. Leading a group of French school girls through a German shopping mall proved interesting – I saw guys stop walking and follow their arses drop jawed. The hottest was wearing black tights, white mini-shorts and a cling-fit cashmere sweater.

Not that I really have the insight but a comparison of the varying national philosophies of education might be interesting.

For instance we all learn history in school in the UK but we don't really have a stated motive for doing so, whereas in the US for instance a pupil studies the lives of great people in the hope that they themselves might become great. Against that comparison we almost seem to look to history in the hope that we don't make the same mistakes again.

The hottest was wearing black tights, white mini-shorts and a cling-fit cashmere sweater.

PEADO PEADO PEADO!!!!

can someone please phone the local education authority and report edukator.

hoody chav = hoody chav, tart = tart, clean cut youth = clean cut youth, anorak = anorak

reminds me of that old Lee and Herring sketch where a teacher was saying that they graded homework on the basis of the social status of the kids parents, reasoning that "I work from 9 oclock in the morning til 3 oclock in the afternoon, 5 days a week for 32 weeks of the year. I'm not going to waste what precious little spare time I have reading something thats been written by somebody half my age!"

For instance we all learn history in school in the UK but we don't really have a stated motive for doing so, whereas in the US for instance a pupil studies the lives of great people in the hope that they themselves might become great. Against that comparison we almost seem to look to history in the hope that we don't make the same mistakes again.

Excellent cultural comparison there – almost makes me proud of an accident of birth.

Not repeating the mistakes of the past is one of life's greatest aspirations IMHO.

Happily I don't work for a local education authority, besides, there's nothing to report, leering is legal.

leering is legal.

😀

But then I'm just a nasty old Socialist, and there's only about four of us left, so take no notice.

right with you there, comrade.

The only system I worked in as opposed to being educated by was the french one: the 'competitive' element puzzles me (you sit an exam to get into say, second year of medical school, teacher training or to be the caretaker -really -and the top x% candidates that year get in) as you get candidates who have failed previous years trying to hold up the progress of newer candidates.

Otherwise its pretty efficient: other staff in the school a bit like EWO's only loads of them to deal with issues outside the classroom. Free periods in secondary schools, which are supervised and you have to do your homework in up to a certain year/age. Compulsory foreign language or two right through to upper 6th, (however the different streams have different amounts of hours and academic standards for various subjects so you can still lean towards the things you are most interested in). And the school dinners are even better than some restaurants i paid real money for in the UK. 😀

Most people on this forum came through the British system and despite it's failings have the ability to form opinions,hold down jobs,interact with their fellow humans(with a few exceptions)etc.

5th nelly,Most of that system has already been tried,once Hitler was defeated Germany dropped it.

Our Schools are great
Our teachers are fabulous
Our political parties are the cause of schools breakdown,with broken political promises 👿

I have issues with the 11+ around here. It's a dreadful setup and divides parents. The pressure to 'get your child tutored' is great with the black market in tutoring alive and growing and the local kids that support the grammar schools in our town amount to only 28%, the rest come from out of area as they attract more state funding. Would you say that's a fair system?

Most people on this forum came through the British system and despite it's failings have the ability to form opinions,hold down jobs,interact with their fellow humans(with a few exceptions)etc.

Are they the right opinions, jobs or interaction? The education system just seems to program Children solely for the economic purposes of the country.

Inclusion for special needs children, bad idea and does not work in 90% of cases, because most Teachers just don't get is as they cannot/willnot understand these children. Its a way for the Goverment/LEA's to save money and let our children down.

The education system just seems to program Children solely for the economic purposes of the country.

Schools kill creativity…. Ken Robinson

re higher education, I would make people take a force year between a levels and first degree – mainly so people can think a bit more about what they want to do and then apply for courses with their actual grades rather than predicted, solve all the clearing bullshit