2 episodes in and after wondering how it would reflect life coming to terms with an autism diagnosis, I’d say it’s doing pretty well, addressing a fair amount of stereotypes and unsaid truths.

Somewhat familiar but different, from the perspective of real life experience.

Wonder what others think? Especially those not that familiar with ASD?

If thought it was going to be set in Oxo towers …

It’s only ever got me a slap when I’ve mentioned it!

Ah, yes, well, OK. took me a while to get what you meant….

Lots of issues with it from my perspective (10 years working with autistic adults and children, married to regional manager at the National Autistic Society).

First, can all the professionals in the show stop referring to autism as a problem, very few professionals (OK, still the odd GP) would refer to autism as a problem.

Secondly, the doctor played by Mina Anwar stated that she would never call someone Autistic, as if that was some sort of insult. This is bollocks. The NAS has recently conducted a survey of thousands of Autistic people, who said they would much rather be labeled Autistic than as “someone who has Autism”. Autism is not an illness, it is a state of mind.

Dad would never have been left alone with an Autistic child showing him round a special school.

The kid has gone from a bit weird to full on Autistic very quickly.

If the boy is diagnosed as Autistic (a far more difficult and complex process than in this show) then he will be assessed under an Education Health and Care plan (previously a statement of special educational needs) where his specific needs will be identified and appropriate educational provision (should) be provided. Also, transport would be provided through either mobility payments to parents or a bus/taxi to school. Manchester is not far from them and has many special schools perfectly suited to kids like Joe. Dad would not have to sell his restaurant to pay for his son’s education.

I’m just a little uncomfortable with how the show has portrayed Autism as a problem parents are left on their own to deal with. I hope it starts to chip away at some of these stereotypes and give us a bit of an insight into the kids perspective, because I’m a little tired of hearing about how hard it is to look after Autistic children and never about how hard it is to be an Autistic child in a world that doesn’t understand or necessarily cater for your needs.

he kid has gone from a bit weird to full on Autistic very quickly.

This I took from a parents perspective, from their kid, just being their kid, to noticing more and more ‘different’ behaviour as a direct result of the diagnosis, kind confirmation bias I guess. It’s the depersonalisation part which can lead to mourning the life that will never be (which sounds a hell of a lot more dramatic than it is, but at the time seems that way).

You are correct about the Autistic label though.

If the boy is diagnosed as Autistic (a far more difficult and complex process than in this show) then he will be assessed under an Education Health and Care plan (previously a statement of special educational needs) where his specific needs will be identified and appropriate educational provision (should) be provided. Also, transport would be provided through either mobility payments to parents or a bus/taxi to school. Manchester is not far from them and has many special schools perfectly suited to kids like Joe. Dad would not have to sell his restaurant to pay for his son’s education.

This takes time and only happens if you have the advice. IME there is a huge gap in what should happen and what does. You need to look for support in order to get it, and to look for it you need to be first aware that it’s there. This includes DLA. It’s taken the best part of 2 years for us to get anywhere and involved pretty much monthly meetings with the school, CAMHS, occupational therapy and a massive amount of helecopter parenting and that is in a school with a language and communication centre to pull input from.

It’s not easy, to start with, but gets easier, then you forget, then you get reminded, then it becomes difficult, then it’s easier, etc, etc.

I think that as it stands at Ep2, the parents havent got any advice off anyone really, they have referrals, and that’s when more support will come into play, but at the moment, they’re feeling a bit lost with little direction.

Hearing some of the interviews with the cast, I think the show is concentrating largely on differences in opionions and approaches by members of the family, leading to an eventual conclusion that Joe is just Joe and that’s how he should be treated.

I hope it starts to chip away at some of these stereotypes and give us a bit of an insight into the kids perspective, because I’m a little tired of hearing about how hard it is to look after Autistic children and never about how hard it is to be an Autistic child in a world that doesn’t understand or necessarily cater for your needs.

This would be brilliant, but really really difficult to explain, and normally met with overcompensation and normalisation of the difficulties we face, which I guess is our human instinctive method of soothing others, but it doesn’t really work and alienates further.

This is a television drama is it not ? Seems pretty clear to me that it is. Not a documentary or “reality” show. All drama is based on conflict, the conflict here essentially that people have different views on how to help Joe. With some soapy adult relationship and betrayal stuff thrown in.

I’m enjoying it so far, esp Christopher Eccleston’s character struggling with being such a babe magnet.

I’m enjoying it so far, esp Christopher Eccleston’s character struggling with being such a babe magnet.

this is quite possibly the best thing ever. 🙂

My wife’s the head teacher of a special needs school that has a number of autistic children in it.

She’s not been throwing stuff at the telly or tutting too loudly so far (we’ve only seen episode one) so I don’t think what it’s showing is that far off the mark as far as parents ‘discovering’ their child is on the spectrum and receiving official confirmation of it.

I think with all special needs that coming to terms with it is an often lengthy and difficult process for parents that tests their relationship with each other to the limit.

For a lengthy discussion about what it’s like to be the parent of a special needs child can I recommend this episode of Ramblings from Radio4 – well worth a listen for one woman’s experiences but there’s a number of insights, I think.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b070hktk

[edit]

I’m enjoying it so far, esp Christopher Eccleston’s character struggling with being such a babe magnet.

I wonder if they’re trying to portray him as being on the spectrum too – he’s very ‘rule’ driven, doesn’t pick up on social nuances/consequences of communication and shies away from/ignores emotions.

I think (as the father of two formally diagnosed H.F autistic girls who is currently awaiting diagnosis himself) that the biggest challenge is that there is a perception of what autism is ‘like’ and that the programme very much reinforces that view of what amounts to ‘stereotypical autistic traits’

My two girls couldn’t be more different from the programme or each other, one is wildly overconfident in her own ability and somewhat of a social butterfly, the other deeply withdrawn. One is fantastic at school, and releases all her pent up stress in violent outbursts attacking me or her mother at home, the other self harmed at school but was great at home.

Biggest challenge for me is currently social services, who have sought to look for someone to ‘blame’ for what they euphemistically refer to as ‘challenging behaviour’.

This ‘stereotypical’ view of autism has led to real difficulties, neither of our girls were diagnosed until their early teens, as the emphasis on autism is very much predicated on the ‘classic’ male presentation, with very poor identification in girls (who many feel are somewhat better at masking their signs and behavioural issues through social camouflage)

On the wider question on whether autism is a ‘problem’ or whether the problem is in the state of mind, I have to agree to an extent there, however IMO disorders like this have become more of a problem over the years, despite all the bullshit we talk about society becoming more tolerant and accepting diversity, in truth it’s become far less tolerant of people living outside the realms of “normal”

Thirty years ago, it was far from unusual to have someone in the workplace who was ‘a bit odd’ – generally they fell into roles where their ‘disabilities’ were assets, anyone who could memorise half the telephone book could be made use of, and if he smelt of BO or made inappropriate comments he was stuffed into an office under the stairs where he never bothered anyone, as long as he got on with his job he was just one of those odd blokes that we as a society coped with, we even often found them jobs where people’s limitations worked perfectly to their advantage, pottering about doing low paid tasks like gardening and grounds maintenance or matching up nuts and bolts. In just the same way as we coped for years with ex service blokes who had funny turns or quiet moments, or drank too much, as a way of dealing with traumatic stress

Then, at some point in the late eighties/early nineties human resources (as opposed to personnel departments) became a career path, these people and their problems became issues who needed to be managed ( or managed out of the business) The bloke with BO who had never been a problem and did his job fine was now shoved into an open plan office with a load of other people and was now an issue who had to be dealt with, the gardening/grounds maintenance was now put out to contract (not because it was actually cheaper, but because it now got written off the tax books as an overhead rather than a staff cost) and he lost his job too, the bloke who took the odd funny turn when he remembered the war was a liability, so they got him signed off sick and forced him into early retirement. The village drunk is now in prison for breaking his ASBO by singing in the street, etc etc.

And thus we see the death of diversity and tolerance in society, and why something that was a minor ailment or just a bit of plain old oddness is now quite literally a disability.

Ps. Final Q. why do programmes always rely on autistic people having some form of magical ‘gift’ when so few actually do?

wwaswas – Member
I wonder if they’re trying to portray him as being on the spectrum too – he’s very ‘rule’ driven, doesn’t pick up on social nuances/consequences of communication and shies away from/ignores emotions

Haven’t seen ep2 yet, but said this about 20 minutes into ep1. Even if it’s not in the script, it certainly seems to be in Eccleston’s mind.

Ps. Final Q. why do programmes always rely on autistic people having some form of magical ‘gift’ when so few actually do?

you mean you don’t?
😉

interesting point made in Ep1, the diagnosis criteria was based on how the traits impacted your life. pretty accurate from what I understand. weirdly though, the diagnosis could then change over time, with the development of coping mechanisms and skills, not that folk tend to be re-assessed later on.

I’m quite liking eccleston’s character. I’d like to think that his blunt and innappropriate manner, along with general obliviousness to how he’s impacting others is deliberate and that some will regard it as ‘being northern’ or ‘being a bloke’ or a generation thing, but in all likeliness has identifyable autistic traits.

the diagnosis criteria was based on how the traits impacted your life. pretty accurate from what I understand. weirdly though, the diagnosis could then change over time, with the development of coping mechanisms and skills, not that folk tend to be re-assessed later on.

Which is why ‘diagnosis’ in adults tends to be avoided – there’s not much to be gained from doing it as people will have a ‘lifestyle’ that works around whatever issues they have by the time they’re adults and there’s little to be gained by attaching a diagnosis to their set of behaviours other than give them possibly something else to worry about.

why do programmes always rely on autistic people having some form of magical ‘gift’ when so few actually do?

Not an expert, but that’s not how I interpreted it at all.

My take on it was that the kid had developed the reliance on / memorising music as a coping strategy and that the parents were rationalising this as a “gift”.
That was how the specialist in the story kind of explained it I thought?

Now, that’s an interesting way of interpreting it that hadn’t occurred to me (there may be a reason why 😳 )

And thus we see the death of diversity and tolerance in society, and why something that was a minor ailment or just a bit of plain old oddness is now quite literally a disability.

I agree but sadly Society is coming to the realisation that disasters happen if you allow untrained people to make ill-informed judgements. Gradually discretion has been taken away from people in all walks of public life. This can work in your favour if you know which buttons to press; Mts Gti has spent the last six months caring for her sick mother and we have learned so much about what’s available. On the day she arrived we didn’t even know how to get incontinence products and were rushing to the supermarket. The district nurses were superb in helping us find our feet and now we enjoy all kinds of help from the NHS and Lancashire CC. As somebody else writes above, the TV drama is unrealistic in showing the disfunctional family struggling to cope with the child with almost no formal outside help.

TV drama is unrealistic in showing the disfunctional family struggling to cope with the child with almost no formal outside help.

Again, this wasn’t my interpretation of the first two episodes.
Rather I saw it as the family’s initial refusal to accept that there was an issue at all.
Other than the GP, (who, in order to expediate the storyline is a bit of a nobber who might have missed a few signs thereby creating dramatic tension), all the medical personnel portrayed came across as supportive, but the parents weren’t very receptive to hear about them.( again to increase the drama a bit, i’d guess)

I’d expect the support mechanisms to make an appearance in future episodes.

the TV drama is unrealistic in showing the disfunctional family struggling to cope with the child with almost no formal outside help

As has been said above though, without a formal diagnosis and EHC schools, social workers and other involved parties will mostly be paying lip service to any additional help for a child – there’s only funding in place once the EHC is finalised.

Families often do struggle alone for years with pre-school children with significant issues. Partly because they often have little basis for comparison between their own child and others, partly through hoping that things will change and their child is a late developer etc and partly because they love their child and can’t believe that the behaviour they are exhibiting is part of a ‘condition’. this is not just true for autism, there’s other congenital or acquired issues that go undiagnosed until children are in the school system. From what I’ve seen the Special Needs system in our area is staffed by a dedicated group of people who have the best interests of the child at heart of all that they do but often it’s convincing parents that their child needs the support on offer that’s a hurdle to it being provided too, it has to be said.

You make a good point on the importance of diagnosis (a laborious task in itself) but I have to say that we have found getting children’s services to accept even a CAMHS diagnosis has been difficult (in fact I have emails from the LA solicitor continuing to deny it despite this) and the EHCP process does not seem to adapt well where school achievement has not been a problem (but social and personal care issues are)

Ninfan, is the EHC plan being made with the involvement of health and social services, or is it just being treated as if it was the old style statement of SEN?
There have been a few reports that EHC planning is not being done properly and that a lot of authorities have carried on doing assessments the old (very education centred) way.

Thanks Fin25, thats exactly what we have been trying to fight, and why there is such frustration with LA reluctance to accept diagnosis, or put in place support that should have been identified sooner (until it all got very messy leading to S17 assessment and CIN plan)

Frankly, from my experience, I’m not that convinced that the LA team here really are really convinced (or understand) that Autism is not an issue that can be fixed with (another) parenting skills course, and that seems to chime with the experience of the very experienced advisor who is fighting our corner at the moment.

Frankly, from my experience, I’m not that convinced that the LA team here really are really convinced (or understand) that Autism is not an issue that can be fixed with (another) parenting skills course, and that seems to chime with the experience of the very experienced advisor who is fighting our corner at the moment.

wowsers.

I do think in our case we bullied the LA to helping. After a major meltdown incident triggered by teachers and peer group we removed daughter from the academy she was in as it was safer for her and would give her space sproviding we managed a routine of sorts.

Eventually we had the inclusions officer see us, who was very sheepish once we told him what had happened, so her new school started on the basis that she chose it, and they knew the history. This was all pre diagnosis, but the school basically said that regardless of diagnosis or not, there are needs she has which need to be allowed for when developing an education plan.

guess we were lucky in that. :-/

One thing to be aware of is that academies are increasingly reluctant to take children with special needs, they are expensive to educate.

How the wholesale switch to academies is going to play out for children with special needs (given that special needs schools themselves will largely stay in LA control) is yet to be seen but this piece is quite good;

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/white-paper-how-send-achilles-heel-mass-academisation

I personally think that inclusion in mainstream schools for those without cognitive issues but who have ‘challenging’ behaviour is going to become increasingly something parents have to fight for.