idave, bible says to do unto other as you would have them do unto you. To me that means tolerating all people,who has that one right,me or the Orange order?
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Tesco Hilarity! You couldn't make it up!
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Posted 2 years ago #
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duckman,
It's a book you think god wrote.
It says clearly and explicitly that it's OK to commit genocide (and also to have your neighbors rape the female members of your family, to spare your guests).So, just to be clear, are you saying god is wrong? or
admitting he used to be immoral genocidal maniac but is much better now?Oh, and if you don't think that
Xianity is an internally consistent moral framework established by an infinitely knowledgeable and good diety
What do you believe?
As the great biblical scholar duckman once said:
Get over yourself
Posted 2 years ago # -
Charles Manson claimed to be inspired by Helter Skelter by the Beatles, does that mean the Beatles are at fault for his actions
he was nuts ah right I see the link you were making between him and christians now
Posted 2 years ago # -
It's a book you think god wrote.
It says clearly and explicitly that it's OK to commit genocideI think you might be misunderstanding what Christians believe in pudding........I have always assumed that they are in fact, "followers of Christ"
The Old Testament very clearly and explicitly states "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth". However, when Jesus Christ was asked how you should respond if someone slapped you across the cheek, he replied that you should offer the other cheek for them to slap. That couldn't possibly be more different than the teachings of the Bible at the time.
Furthermore he insisted that you should "love your enemy", again, in complete contradiction of teachings of the Bible at the time. The most famous parable of all, was 'the parable of the Good Samaritan'. The Good Samaritan wasn't just simply a "good guy", but he was also a "Samaritan" - a hated and despised people.
That's what made the parable so powerful.So outraged were the authorities by the heresy and blasphemy of this maverick rabbi, that they crucified him.
Christians believe that Jesus Christ was put on this earth precisely because of the need to spread this new message ........... mankind was going in the wrong direction, and it needed a 'saviour' a 'messiah' to put it on the straight and narrow.By all means criticise the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ's teachings which were diametrically opposed to 'revenge' and 'destroying your enemies'......if you so wish. But it is completely disingenuous of you to suggest that Christians believe in everything which Jesus Christ was opposed to.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pudding, you are stillgoing round in circles.You keep getting back to your warped version of the bible. Pretty much everything in my life as a Christian is based on the New Testament, so for me the moral genocide bit is about as important as putting the Mrs in the shed when the painters are in.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I cannot get over why they use the terms Catholic and Protestant.Are you having a laugh?
Posted 2 years ago # -
ernie lynch, duckman,
I think that the bible was written by bronze age farmers.
I don't have a problem with the fact that it describes the antics of a bunch of long dead genocidal rapists.YOU claim it was written by god/jesus.
The Jesus who (allegedly) said "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matt 5:18 (spot the contradiction?)
If you don't see the activities of the old testament [which god/jesus personally directed, ordered and watched over] as a problem for your 21st century bowing and scraping to the "prince of peace", then I'm afraid it's beyond me to explain to you.
It's nice that YOUR god doesn't commit genocide, rape the innocent and put women in sheds once a month (any more).
But its also incredibly interesting how the version of god/jesus you see in the bible reflects your own 21st century views and opinions so closely?
And I'm not 'warping' whats in there, I'm 'quoting' whats in there.
Unsubtle difference.
I advise you to read it closely cover to cover. Best way ever to abandon the whole thing and start living ;O)
Posted 2 years ago # -
The Jesus who (allegedly) said "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matt 5:18 (spot the contradiction?)
Spot the contradiction? No not really. But that's possibly because I haven't got a clue what it means..........what does it mean ?
ernie lynch, duckman......YOU claim it was written by god/jesus.
I have claimed no such thing.........could Jesus Christ even write ?
I thought Matthew, Mark, Luke and John had something to do with it .....no ?I don't have a problem with the fact that it describes the antics of a bunch of long dead genocidal rapists.
And yet funnily enough, I get the distinct impression that you do have a problem with it.........in fact, quite a big problem
Posted 2 years ago # -
Feenster wrote:
"deep man, deep"
It doesn't need to be deep to be true
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have claimed no such thing.........could Jesus Christ even write ?
No, but I could have done with him this week - this floor is around a day and half behind schedule - might have been dangerous around power tools though
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pretty much everything in my life as a Christian is based on the New Testament, so for me the moral genocide bit is about as important as putting the Mrs in the shed when the painters are in.
Although the new testament does not dismiss the old testament. If both works were the word of God then who (as Sam Harris observes) decides what is "good" in the good book?
Surfer,some people have a belief system that doesn't conform to your opinion of how it should,why do you have a problem with that?
This is a common response and manipulation of what religion is. I have no problem with your "belief" per se, and as an individual I just assume you believe in fairies. However I do have an issue with the resources that are squandered and the disproportionate influence your belief in an "invisible friend" has on my life.
Whether it be the misallocation of funds due to the favorable tax position your invisible friend enjoys in this country, which I would far rather be spent on the provision of more important resources such as improved healthcare.
Or the disproportinate influence it has over the allocation of funding into medical science, which as a direct result of your unsubstantiated fairy stories has restricted the most ground breaking developments in stem cell research and in the US, set this research back years.
Or maybe I am a little miffed that the leader of the catholic church ruins and prematurely ends millions of innocent believers lives in sub saharan Africa every year, as a direct result of preaching the evil of Condom use (even amongst married couples)Its far to easy to claim the "golden rule" as a distillation of Chrisitanity however the truth is often a little darker. Your weasel words and cherry picking of texts sounds a little like a BNP supporter claiming not to be a racist but instead a supporter of their tax policies!
If you are a Christian then you need to accept what goes with it in my opinion.Posted 2 years ago # -
Ok, Surfer I have no problem with your complaints about tax etc,something which people have complained about for the last thousand years.However registered chasrities get the same breaks,do they not? The stem cell issue is one that concerns me on grounds of morality,not religion. My views on contraception are stated above.Who decides what is good in the good book? The individual of course, that is why people down the ages have been able to do so much harm and justify it.
What exactly are my weasel words,would that be having a different point to you and daring to defend it? The comparison to the BNP is almost as good as puddings claims that if you are a Christian, you are an apologist for genocide.You and pudding seem to have a far more restrictive view on what people should and should not be allowed to believe than most Christians,despite any claims you may make about.
So to finish up, may I assume that your view is that as a Christian,I am partly responsibile for every act of genocide carried out in the name of God? There that makes thing simpler.Posted 2 years ago # -
What he (surfer) said :o)
Theres something odd about all these 'christians'. Running about, not reading their bibles, not bothering to understand theology, not applying any thought or reason to life the universe or anything.
I'm surprised they bother, but I suppose it explains how the whole illogical inhumane mess keeps rumbling on?Posted 2 years ago # -
duckman,
I'm _not_ saying you should apologise for the genocide in the bible.I'm just pointing out that YOUR GOD (now including 33.3% Jesus, and added spirit), personally ordered and watched over genocide, rape and mass murder on a collosal scale (all be it a long time ago).
If he exists, he has some pretty difficult questions to answer. If you prefer not to ask ... well whatever :o)
(PS the phrase you use "in the name of" implies that you think that people did these things without gods permission. That would be an error on your part. You should really read it.)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pudding you seem completely unable to get over the idea that all Christians belong to the moral Genocide club, as you put it.My first point on this post was that these people are not Christians as defined by my defination of what my experience of being and growing up with other Christians is.I am sure you know some people who are Christian as I have tried to define it. are they the same are the paramilitarys who claim links to a church?
Posted 2 years ago # -
And you seem unable (or unwilling) to read or understand whats written in your own holy book by your own god.
Why is that?
(Go on .. read it, I dare you ;o)Posted 2 years ago # -
PS, I've had this discussion before, and some of the nicest most decent and loving people I know (2 of them) have read the bits in question and thought about it and eventually told me that;
"by definition everything god does is good"
"therefore even if he orders genocide it MUST be moral"
"therefore if he ordered me to go into X town and kill all the occupants it would be the right and moral thing to do"This is your brain on religion, pretty huh?
Posted 2 years ago # -
PS, I've had this discussion before, and some of the nicest most decent and loving people I know (2 of them) have read the bits in question and thought about it and eventually told me that;
by definition everything god does is good"
"therefore even if he orders genocide it MUST be moral"
"therefore if he ordered me to go into X town and kill all the occupants it would be the right and moral thing to do"This is your brain on religion, pretty huh?
Sorry don't believe you now. I have read the bible cover to cover many times, you obviously, as Ernie pointed out haven't,as you continue to demonstrate.Oh well; guess we will have to agree to disagree eh? It is a pity you are unable to accept that somebody has a completely different view to you without attempting to undermine it, but hey, applying your own logic, must be your upbringing.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Whatever ... It is sad (and disturbing) but it is true (we don't talk religion much any more and once it was a long walk home :o)
The genocide (and slavery & rape) is there in black and white too.
"I have read the bible cover to cover" Maybe, but you might not have been paying attention.
Anyway (I hope for the last time) I don't have to justify whats in there.
YOU, (as someone who worships the author) probably should at least try.I freely admit that there are nice bits (which contradict the evil bits) elsewhere within the same book (thanks Ernie).
But (outside reverso world) that doesn't make it a better book
Ta ta
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sorry about the dig about your upbringing. So, I am going to the Queens path above Dunkeld this weekend,should be good,if muddy.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The stem cell issue is one that concerns me on grounds of morality,not religion.
What is you moral issue with the above? Given your morals are shaped by your religion how can you claim it is unrelated?
Can you outline your concerns to stem cell research?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I should clarify, My problem is with the "old" method of collecting the cells, which I am led to believe is still in use in the Eastern block. What's next surfer?
Posted 2 years ago # -
My problem is with the "old" method of collecting the cells
So leaving aside the collecting of them, the use of stem cells for research causes you no issues?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I am sure you are baiting a trap, but no, not with the newer method where the cells are artificially grown. I just didn't like the idea of removing tissue from an aborted embryo.I am obviously against abortion for conveniences sake, but then I am sure you could guess that.
Posted 2 years ago # -
This Englishman is backing slowly away, I suggest my fellow countrymen do likewise!
Posted 2 years ago # -
My posts never last this long normally. I can't even remember what it was. Must have been controversial.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I can't even remember what it was. Must have been controversial.
God knows.Posted 2 years ago #
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