So my dads not doing too good with his brain tumour. Been trying to think about how to talk about it to my son. I have told him about my brother who died when he was very young and apart from occasionally telling random strangers that “daddies brother died and he was very sad”. He seems to accept. Obviously grandad dying will be more difficult for him. Also being both atheists I’m not sure what to say about what happens, saying he’s gone and thats that seems a bit harsh but then I dont believe in heaven. I realise this is a bit of a ramble and I havent actually asked a question but anyone got any advice?

Also being both atheists I’m not sure what to say about what happens, saying he’s gone and thats that seems a bit harsh but then I dont believe in heaven.

Give him both sides? Some people believe in life after death others don’t and he can make his own mind up.

Sorry for your dad OP

Tell it like it is:Grandads dead, its like he’s gone to sleep forever and we all miss him would be my approach verbatim!

Kids deal with these facts with surprising ease IME.

My wife was kicked out of home when she was about 14, I don’t beat about the bush anymore when we get asked why there is only one set of grandparents, the conversation soon moves onto sweets, tv or toys soon enough.

Kids deal with these facts with surprising ease IME.

This.

Tell it like it is:Grandads dead, its like he’s gone to sleep forever

Do not tell them this^ he may link sleeping with death.

<edit> http://www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/development/social/talking-to-kids-about-death/

Kids deal with these facts with surprising ease IME.

This.

I lost my Father in Law when youngest was about 3. It was a sudden death he was walking the dogs whilst my wife, her sister and their mother were on a day trip to Edinburgh. I was nights and was woken by a fall cal from a local GP telling me my FIL had passed away. I had to ring them to ask them to come home, they’d just got off the train, telling them what had happened.

We told our daughter he’d died, that he won’t be around anymore. His wife wanted to tell her he’s with the stars looking down at her, so that’s what we went with too as it was her husband.

Our daughter grasped it fairly quickly.

Absolutely this ^

Sleeping and death must be separated; even the concept of ‘dying in your sleep’ can lead to sleep issues.

Tell the truth, both sides. It gives a lot of grown up people comfort to believe in heaven or life after death of some sort. Others don’t believe it. If it makes it easier and to accept at this stage, do what’s right for him now. You can backtrack after, kids won’t hate you forever for ‘lying’ when that lie was to protect them.

We do a LOT of work around this. http://www.brainstrust.org.uk, give us a tinkle and we can help you come up with a plan: 01983 292405 avail. 24/7. You need to speak with Helen.

Read him (and show him) Looking for Atlantis by Colin Thompson, a wonderful picture book (for all ages – it will work for you to!) about a grandfather dying.

Talk to McMillan or other support you are using. They will be able to help you.

Really sorry, must be a dreadful time for you.

Dont think I really need to “talk” to anyone about it just want to get clear in my head what I want to say. I like the stars bit maybe we’ll go with that. Ties in with the Lion King which is a film he loves too!!!

Oh and thanks for the posts everyone.

Sad but helpful post…we’ve had a less serious, but similar situation recently when my mum’s dog died. The kids (4 and 6) were told and asked a few questions, but have been fine since.

I’m sure it won’t be quite as easy when mum dies…

To the point above about kids dealing with it…I was talking to my 4yr old recently, said something like “love you forever”, and she replied matter of factly, “no you won’t daddy, because one day you’ll die”….which was tough to hear.

I’d go with the stars as well, like it or not we humans need hope at all ages.

Then when they’re a bit older tell them about all the various religious ideas, heaven, reincarnation, karma…

Doesn’t do any harm knowing, we either go somewhere nice, come back to try and get it right next time, or nothing happens and we don’t know anything about anything anymore and the pain ends.

Nobody knows for sure, it’s called as I just said on the faith thread, agnosticism, it’s all we have, except hope of course, for the one you want it to be.,

When my Dad died the kids were pretty unmoved, they were frightened over how upset I was though.

Might only be a bit helpful – my brother illustrated a book for young children who’ve lost siblings. The book per-se might not be useful because of that (but I think copies are available free from the charity that commissioned it if anyone would use it) but its maybe a good guide to to the issues other than explaining the idea of death and more about how a child might have difficulty grasping how the grown ups around them are dealing with death as they’ll see emotions and behaviour in their parents they’ve maybe not seen before

Rory’s Star

The idea of associating a thing or a place with the person who’s gone might help to. Plant something, go somewhere and always go back on a birthday. Something like that.

Sorry to hear about you dad.

Badgers parting gifts is a good book for telling kids about death.

First of all, sorry to hear about your dad.

My sister died a year ago and my eldest was just 4 at the time. We told him the way it was, “your auntie has died, gone to heaven and daddy is very sad”. We didn’t dress it up with going to sleep forever, past away etc as we felt this would just confuse him. As others have said, he dealt with it without any issue, occasional references to daddy being sad because his sister is in heaven etc. same goes for when his grandad died, I do like that he just brings it up in conversation from time to time, death is not something to hide away and feel awkward talking about, get your feelings and thoughts out there, and that is exactly what he is doing. I wish I could do the same sometimes.

Oh, there is a book about a cat that died and went to heaven, I bought that to read to my son, thinking it may help him understand a little more. I’ll dig it out and post the title when home.

Sorry to hear about your Dad.

My brother died 15 months ago, my kids were 6 and 3 at the time.
I’m not a believer but my Mrs takes the kids to Church so we said Uncle Dom has died and gone to heaven.
We told the kids he is now a star in the sky, who is always shining on them.
We also bought a helium balloon, got the kids to do a little drawing/write a message, attached it to the balloon, and let it go during a nice walk in the park.. it seemed to work as it gave the kids some connection, and some closure as they know they can’t see their uncle anymore, and have to send messages via the balloon.

As mentioned above, Badgers parting gifts is a great book, however read it yourself first, as it had me crying like a baby.

dealing with loss is tough for adults, however I honestly found my kids helped me through losing my little ‘bro.

A sad time for you all

Approach a local charity that offers specialist bereavement counselling. They don’t just talk with children but offer activities such as memory boxes to help them prepare for that day

As you’ll know, we have to be so careful about what we tell a child, and these people have lots of experience

As above, speak with the people who are caring for your dad’s health and who should have the contacts

Very sorry about your dad.
My boy <3 has bombarded me lately with questions about why he only has one grandad and wants to know where my daddy is.(We’ve been showing him family pictures of the extended family).I tell him that my daddy is all around us,all the time, making the stars brighter. Not quite the same as your circumstance , but he seems happy with the explanation.

I am really sorry to know you are in this situation . The only advise I can offer is kids deal with it . I lost a grandmother who was close to me very young even as a child I only had the vaguest memories of her my paternal granddad died when I was about infant school age and his wife when at Junior school . I really did not know them as we only went one or twice a year so it never really touched me . I recall being told my grandad was in heaven watching over me which made me really really paranoid .my father was long dead when Cranbrat was born he knows he is named after him he knows a lot of a furniture was made by him and he sees his photos but we have never said he is dead and he has never asked.
For morbid reasons I ponder this issue myself I plan not to bring a religion I do not for a second believe in into the equation but hope to come up with something not too bleak . Not describing it as going to sleep would be a plus I recall fear of and conviction of imminent death being a feature of trying to get to sleep as a child.

When the dog died we had a surprisingly easy conversation with my daughter who was 3 at the time.

I don’t think she grasped all of it because she kept asking why “Eddie had gone to Kevin?”

The stars one works on younger kids; my 8 year old wouldn’t wear any of that and corrected me that a relative was dead, and that’s that.

A 4yr old? Seriously.

Why do you need to do that/even open that can of worms so soon?

Why not simply say his Grandfather is about to embark on a long journey and one day we’ll see him again.

Little boys have imagination and all of them are different in their comprehension. Why create an older child before its needed?

Hora because your child will be wanting to go too or contact the relative and then decide that the relative does not love them because they have not been in touch. Children deal with life in a child-like way telling them about life and death does not make them adults .

My kids ask about my mum a lot. We just say that she’s not alive any more. When they ask where she is, we say something along the lines of ‘she has turned back into the stuff that all the earth is made of’.

crankboy hence why you say they’ve gone on a very long journey.

My lad (4)- asks too many questions as it is so I say ‘Im off for a swim’ (in the sea again?) Yes. Oh ok.

It satisfies the imagination part of them.

(IMO of course).

crankboy hence why you say they’ve gone on a very long journey.

Which suggests they’re coming back one day. Not a good idea IMO.

I’ve had some tough conversations recently with our two (4 and 5). IMO better to discuss it with them than try to ‘protect’ them from it, kids are inquisitive and not as stupid as we like to think.

The wifes mum passed away before our two were born but we talk about her often and the kids understand that she’s gone and is in heaven watching over us all. None of us are religious but heaven is an easy option and seems to be a common enough option that they can talk with their friends about it if they choose.

The hardest part for me was that our youngest became a little obsessed with death, saying he didn’t want to die, didn’t want mummy to die, etc. It only lasted a week or so. We’ve always talked about where the dinosaurs went, what happens when you die, dead things go into the ground and help the plants grow, that kind of stuff, but once they start to become more aware it’s really hard to explain things without scaring them.

When my Dad died the kids were pretty unmoved, they were frightened over how upset I was though.

agree. Losing a parent is a far far bigger deal than losing a grandparent whatever age you are. I’d worry about yourself much more than your four year old, who’ll be fine whatever you chose to say.

The hardest part for me was that our youngest became a little obsessed with death, saying he didn’t want to die, didn’t want mummy to die, etc. It only lasted a week or so. We’ve always talked about where the dinosaurs went, what happens when you die, dead things go into the ground and help the plants grow, that kind of stuff, but once they start to become more aware it’s really hard to explain things without scaring them.

My brother was cremated, and while we decided not to take the kids to the cremation, we did have to explain what had happened to him.

I think my wife did OK with –
“When you die you are either buried in the ground, where you become food for pretty flowers. Or you are put into a big machine, which turns you into clouds. The ashes which you then scatter are cloud dust”

We did take them to the ash scattering, which was a bit confusing for them, as they appeared to think they were going to see their uncle again.

Sometimes this stuff is pretty hard.

Hora, you need to get your kid a pet with a short life span and deal with it. 😉

My lad was 3 when his great nan died. Up until then he hadn’t realised that people died, only animals. Once he knew the bare facts, he was fine.

Oh yes the cremation thing. My nan was cremated and is still in a box at my mums house. The kids are surprisingly accepting that Nanny Annie (they never met her) is in a box in nanny’s front room!

I didn’t go to a funeral until I was nearly grown up, and as a consequence I think i struggled with the finality of it as a child. I kind of got that someone had gone to heaven, become a star, whatever works for you; but didn’t get the finality that once the earth was shovelled over or the curtain closed, that really was it in terms of seeing them again.

My wife’s friend died of a brain tumour 18 months ago. She was a vet and was very keen that the children (hers, and family friends) didn’t shy away from the subject. She specifically wanted children to come to her funeral and burial and take part and understand it. It was a beautiful experience, livened not least by some inspired heckling from her youngest as her husband tried to delivery a eulogy. And when it came to the burial, the celebrant (it was a secular do, fwiw) invited anyone to throw things into the grave for Fiona. Some threw flowers, some photos, or letters. And another kid, not wanting to be left out threw his school lunch card in. The kids have these punch cards with lunches prepaid on them, and the dinner ladies punch out a hole every time used. So wherever Fiona went, at least she had a fortnight’s worth of lunches to sustain her.

Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack this with memories; what i meant to say is that kids are very resilient, and hiding them away from the truth of life and death risks creating a stigma to it that can take a long time to pass. It’s not worth fearing something that is inevitable, far better to accept it. If that means fibbing a bit about the afterlife to make it a bit easier to accept in the short term while they grow up enough to decide for themselves, so be it.

^^^ Nicely put, fully agree.

4yr old? Seriously.

Why do you need to do that/even open that can of worms so soon?

Why not simply say his Grandfather is about to embark on a long journey and one day we’ll see him again.

Because its bollocks? Because death is an inevitable part of life and because telling lies early on will come back and bite you on the ass later.

Something a few people I know have done – is pets, specifically short life-cycle pets like tank of tropical fish. That way birth / growing / living and dying are all happening in practice, and without too much emotional attachment, rather than in the abstract.

Be careful not to turn atheism into a hangup. I’m an atheist, I grew up in an atheist household. I didn’t need to be coached or guided in atheism or warned away from from any kind of faith, or have anything debunked, or have my family’s life and choices defined. Religion was something I was aware of as something other people do, in the same way as there were things my family did that other people didn’t do. If faith’s not part of your family’s habits and practices then thats that – hearing or using religious turns of phrase, seeing or participating in religious events even won’t change your children’s view of themselves, they’ll just see how their life compares and contrasts with others.

I’m not sure I have enough time to buy a gold fish keep it then kill it 🙁

I think keep it factual brief and honest seems the best plan.

It doesn’t have to be something you do now – but as something thats part of growing up. You can come to an understanding of events in retrospect in the same way that whats happening with your dad now will change your son’s understanding of what happened to your brother earlier.

I have to say, even in my 40s my understanding of these things keeps changing and developing, never mind when you’re just 4