New frame (when it eventually turns up from the States/Taiwan) will be single speed/hub gearable. So, with this in mind (and while the short term plan involves SLX), who can tell me about Rohloffs? How well do they work, any downsides (apart from weight) and what chainring/sprocket?

I’ve had one for years got it for new ht build years ago but just did not get on with it off road.
But after getting fed up with it sat in my spare room I rebuilt it into a 29er wheel and have it on salsa el mar and works very well. And can’t see why I stopped using it in the first
Place.

Can’t remember what gearing its useing

I saw one recently at a bike show that had been opened up to show you how they work. They are an impressive piece of kit and easy to maintain. If you keep up with the oil change they should last a lifetime.

Over a 2×10 low end gear system there are about the same weight. They only get heavier vs normal gears as you start to spend more money.

Because they last a long time its well worth considering picking up a 2nd hand one.

have it on salsa el mar

Funny you should say that. Do you have the special NDS alternator dropout?

Yep I did splash out on the drop out , makes it very simple

Had one for about 3 years but sold it . Negatives outweighed the positives for me .

Negatives
Expensive
Much heavier than a regular geared set up despite what they say
Noticeable drag particularly in the lower 7 gears which use a reducer sprocket
Noisy in the lower 7 gears
Not maintainance free – mine had to go back to the factory twice , although both times it was fixed for free .
Have to use twist shifter which I like but many don’t

Positives
Ability to change gear while standing still
No rear mech to bash

Biggest mistake I made.
All the shit about the more you ride them the less draggy they get. 😆

Two bearing changes later and it still dragged like a dead fat **** hanging off the back on the chain off the Titanic.
Oh and still had play in the bearings. 😐

Did I mention the creaking?

Torque arm/Rohloff specific drop out/monkeybone they all creaked like a bastard in the lower gears when the torque switched direction. 🙁

I had one on a Ti hardtail for about 2 years.

I actually got on with it reasonably well – it did everything it should, and I found the range of gears was good. Compared to a 3×9 setup I figured it was 1 gear short, either at the top end or at the bottom, depending on the ratio you use. IIRC I opted for a chainring/ sprocket combo that gave me the bottom end, and tbh I rarely if ever found myself spinning out, even on tarmac.

The residuals on them are excellent; I bought one secondhand on ebay, and sold it 2 years later for about £50 less. In that time I did an oil change myself and had no issues – although the shifter was looking a bit worn by the end of it.

The reason I sold it in the end was not because of any inherent wrongness, but because I just didn’t love it. It did the opposite of ‘make the trail come alive’ – where on a regular geared hardtail I could pop the back wheel over things, and shift the balance of the bike around, with the Rohloff it was very stable and planted, and felt much less responsive.

I don’t dispute the weight comparisons – I think the Rohloff is supposed to be about the same weight all-in as an XT 3×9 setup – but with derailleurs that weight’s spread across the bike. With a Rohloff, 90% of it is sat on the back axle, and IME you could feel it.

I switched back to ‘regular’ gears, even thought it felt like a step backwards, and just found myself enjoying riding more.
But everyone’s riding is different, so it could be right up your alley. You should definitely try it; as above, get one secondhand, and if you don’t get on with it you can always sell it on.

singlespeedstu – Member
…All the shit about the more you ride them the less draggy they get…

I think it’s true.

The trouble is you have to put up with several thousand miles of running them in. 🙂

I hated the feel of mine, and I don’t like noise from anywhere on my bike so the coffee grinder noises in low gear were a big put off.

On the other hand my brother has done about 15,000 miles on his and it’s sweet. Probably best to buy a well used one!

Opinions vary 😀

About half the bikes I do are Rohloff equipped. They’re not perfect – nothing is – but they’re about as close as a bicycle transmission system gets. For most people, the only maintenance they need is a yearly oil change, new oil seals every 5+ years! and occasional sprockets and cables (though much less often than other systems). My own personal hub is 9 years old, and has had about 20 minutes work total in that time.

Sure, a few go wrong – over the years, I’ve probably had half a dozen or so that had to go back to Germany – but Rohloff are very good at sorting problems for free.

Downsides? They are heavier than a derailleur system, and the twist shifter isn’t for everyone. Efficiency is an interesting one – according to all the scientific measurements, they’re about as efficient as a derailleur, however subjectively some people find them more draggy. I think it might be that they do make more noise in some gears (especially when new) and people consciously or subconsciously equate noise with drag.

I switched back to ‘regular’ gears, even thought it felt like a step backwards, and just found myself enjoying riding more.

Just about sums it up.
I really wanted to love my Hoff but at the end of the day it was a bit shit.

The trouble is you have to put up with several thousand miles of running them in.

So I got through two sets of bearings by not putting any miles on it? 😆

You’ve got through more bearings than all my hundreds of Rohloff customers combined…

[/quote]Downsides? They are heavier than a derailleur system, and the twist shifter isn’t for everyone. Efficiency is an interesting one – according to all the scientific measurements, they’re about as efficient as a derailleur, however subjectively some people find them more draggy. I think it might be that they do make more noise in some gears (especially when new) and people consciously or subconsciously equate noise with drag.

Not very scientific but I know I was slower compared to my riding buddies when on the Rohloff equipped bike .

Got my first one a week ago, 120 miles in and I think it’s brilliant,
Yes you do notice the rear wheel doesn’t spin as freely as a normal bike but it still spins fairly well.
I bought it on a complete build and the gear numbers were set up backwards, but a quick you tube video search showed how easy it was to swap back.
I’m sold on it (atm)

I’m sold on it (atm)

Keep repeating “it’ll get better, It’ll get better”

Then sell it ’cause it pisses you off so much. 8)

I bought it on a complete build and the gear numbers were set up backwards

Lolercopters.
So called custom bike builder can’t even cable up a Hoff hub.

I’ve been using one for over 8 years on my winter (now) hard tail. I used it as a main all year bike until a few years ago. You get used to the weight concentration on the rear wheel (a bit harder to bunny hop but still doable). The perceived drag is something you get used to too, horses for courses in my opinion as gear 11 is direct drive and more efficient than a normal geared system – get the timing right and out sprint your mates – well that may say more about me than anything else! ;0)

I’m so glad I’ve got one, in the winter it shifts silky smooth no matter what. I’ve raced it (done ok if I don’t mind saying myself), jumped and single tracked it mainly.

There are negatives, weight and cost mainly. In over 8 years and I do ride a lot! it has been back to Rohloff three times all outside warranty – all it cost me was the carriage out there.

Gearing 38 x 16 (sprockets reversible)

I would say they are great but not perfect and judging by the amount of comments against, not for everybody. Do your research and make sure it’s for you.

according to all the scientific measurements, they’re about as efficient as a derailleur

Hmm. I’ve read articles to the contrary. I seem to remember a figure in the mid to high 80%s effeciency. A standard setup is in the high 90%s efficient IIRC if your chain line is straight – this drops to similar to a Rohloff if you use an extreme chain line.

My mate rides a Moulton with a non Rohloff hub gear and he complains bitterly about the drag. He’s honest, and a pretty handy rider too (faster than me) so I have no reason to doubt him.

So called custom bike builder can’t even cable up a Hoff hub.

The majority of more complex Rohloff repairs I do are caused, not by a fault with the hub, but by an error when fitting or servicing by another shop. Bodging the wrong tool when swapping the sprocket, holding a delicate alloy part with mole grips, using the wrong gear cables and cracking the shifter, stuff like that.

Basically, there’s a breed of bike shop mechanic who don’t RTFM 😉

it has been back to Rohloff three times

Bearings?

Basically, there’s a breed of bike shop mechanic who don’t RTFM

Ben.
Cabling up a Hoff isn’t exactly complicated though is it. 😆

i’d have another in a shot on a commuter bike. never again on an offroader though.

a non Rohloff hub gear

So not comparable in any way to a Rohloff 😉

Efficiency figures (admittedly these are from Rohloff, but similar to others I’ve seen):

Cabling up a Hoff isn’t exactly complicated though is it.

You’d think so, but the old outer cables with the separate liners would catch out people – people fitted the liner then the end cap, instead of the other way around.

First was a very minor oil leak through the Q/R and I was keen to get it sorted as it was just outside warranty.

Second, was some wheel movement side to side which although didn’t affect anything I was again keen to get sorted as it cost so much. New driver bearings, oil seals etc fitted free of charge including return carriage.

Third, was two years later I did get some intermittent gear slippage. Again returned it, they re-shimmed the gears after the amount of use I put through it. Fitted new driver bearings and oil seals again free of charge and carriage. Main hub bearings are in tolerance although I have suspicions they will need replacing at some point.

Basically, it goes back every two/three years for an overhaul/adjust and at £60 insured carriage one way I think it is a bargain.

I change the cables every 18 months or so, and I still get caught out 50% of the time and get them around the wrong way – easy enough to correct just another 15 minutes of your time.

@ Ben.
Makes me wander how they cope then the indexing is adjusted in the shifter not with a shit load of play even at the shifter box.

Main hub bearings are in tolerance although I have suspicions they will need replacing at some point.

Same old story from Hoff then…

Not that i see them that much any more. But when there were a few folks trying to use them offroad every one I ever saw had side to side play in it.

So not comparable in any way to a Rohloff

How do Rohloffs differ from other hub gears then? Teflon coated cogs or something?

Mines 8 years old gets used all year round on my off road commuter in all weathers gets an oil change once a year, 2 minutes of attention to the chain a week if conditions are really bad and is still running the original shifter cables. I get 3 years from a chain and sprocket and 6 from the chainring which I reverse when I change the chain and sprocket.
If you want gears and a bike to ride in the worst winter conditions day in and day out and would rather sit down with a hot cup of tea or a cold beer rather than clean and lube your transmission there is nothing better. And get some rigid forks as well.

avdave2 +1

First one’s over 10 years old now, xc, dh, two trips to the Alps, in a word bombproof.
Changed oil every year, new set of seals after 7 years and new cables when changing over to a new frame.
Drag ….. new laser engraved shell version feels good out of the box, old sticker versions feels draggy compared to a cassette setup but the reality is that a grippy tyre will cause more actual drag.

Got 3 x Rohloff, an Alfine 11 & 8 and I can’t see a reason other than cost or weight why I would wish to go back to a standard setup.

Desperate to try a pinion 18, may just be the perfect solution.:)

How do Rohloffs differ from other hub gears then? Teflon coated cogs or something?

Various ways – running in a sealed oil bath (though Alfines mostly do this now), needle roller bearings on all the planetary gears instead of plain sleeves, and a more logical gear layout.

(By that, I mean that it’s a simple system. The simplest is a 3-speed, step-down, straight through, step-up. Add another epicyclic and you turn the steps into 3, so get 7 gears. Add an under drive and you get 14. Getting 8 or 11 gears is a more complex gear path)

would rather sit down with a hot cup of tea or a cold beer rather than clean and lube your transmission

I have no idea why people think it takes hours to clean a bike. I simply jetwash mine, carefully, and I don’t think I’d do anything different if I had a Rohloff. It’d still take the same amount of time.

Although to be fair, where I live is mostly gritty mud rather than grassy clay, so I don’t get wattle and daub stuck in the mech.

Anyone know if the Nuvinci one is more efficient?

Yep I did splash out on the drop out , makes it very simple

What did you do about cable routing?

I have a rohloff and an alfine 8

The alfine 8 is a far superior ride use mine almost daily.

Infact i havnt even fitted the rohloff to my bike for over a year now….(its set up to switch between ss and rohloff in about 10 minutes)

As stu says feels like your hauling a pig around , it killed any skip in the rear end and made it feel like you were riding into every bump rather than over it.

Last time i used it was on a tour of shetland , orkney and back to aberdeen from thurso

The ever popular Simon Barnes had one a good few years ago and it went back to the factory a couple of times due to water ingress. I really don’t think they are cut out for Lakeland riding, perhaps somewhere drier…

singlespeedstu – Member
“The trouble is you have to put up with several thousand miles of running them in.”

So I got through two sets of bearings by not putting any miles on it?

Must be those mighty single speed legs of yours… 🙂

I was just parroting what my brother says. I don’t think I’ve even got 500 miles on mine. Keep meaning to drag it out for the fatbike. That ultralow gear would be great in the snow.

Sorry bit slow and not a great image

my hoff is the only gears I run anymore.

I move it around between 3 29er/700c frames depending on my plans.
Mainly it stays in my Pompetamine now as I keep my MTB SS now.

I think it’s a great bit of kit. reliable, effective, such low maintenance requirement.

I will keep mine till I keel over.

[img]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bFZHC546Ows/UAvbhhg6FII/AAAAAAAAC4c/EaBdfEiIItw/s640/IMAG0110.jpg[/img]

Ive used a couple of differnet methods to attach it to my On-One slotted drop out frames. All have worked fine.
[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jYc35ooSQZ4/TgjnwfY_YnI/AAAAAAAAABQ/JnWtpobg5pQ/s640/img_8392.jpg[/img][img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FXqCL03Z_IQ/TtYDcfHfdAI/AAAAAAAAA7s/fg57oMzOagE/s400/IMAG0473.jpg[/img]

Creaking? never experienced it.

Oil leaks – my oldest one needs a seal change but it must be over 7 years old. (Is this still a back to Germany job or can Ison do it in the UK?). A bit of seepage but nothing to worry about on the others. Katie’s Alfine 11 has been back 3 times for pissing oil everywhere without being resolved.

Bearings? Every time I think mine are worn it turns out to be something else on the bike that’s loose. Based on SFB’s experience they don’t like being fully submerged but that’s not what mountain biking is about for very many people.

They do work better if run in properly – I always put them on a commuter for 6 months to get a few 1k’s of miles on before using them offroad.

I rode them on Helius CC/AC’s for years and they were fine. Have now switched to a Pinion gearbox and the weight balance *is* notably better but it wasn’t a problem in the back wheel. It does alter the balance of the bike but on a hardtail it puts the balance point back where it is on a rigid bike. On a full-sus it’s easily adapted to – you can add as much extra weight to the back wheel with a DH tyre.

Cost used to be a real barrier but lifetime costs of either Rohloff or Pinion look a bargain now that you can run to £350 on an 11 speed cassette and chain.

of the bike but on a hardtail it puts the balance point back where it is on a rigid bike.

What forks do you run ? Lead cast lowers ?