Please enlighten those of us that don’t have your scintillating teachers intellect.

it clearly says he worked 18 hour days as a coder but now he finds teaching harder, it doesnt say he works that long or longer, it just says compared to being a coder teaching is harder.
There’s no need to thank me for clearing that up for you mate!

it just says compared to being a coder teaching is harder.

As he is talking about the coding job in the context of number of hours he worked, then states teaching is harder, it is unclear if it means by the hours worked or by the nature of the work done.

AFAIK coding requires a lot of problem solving and mathematical skill, so on an intellectual level you could argue that this would be more difficult than the communication skill that is primary skill of an effective teacher.

There’s no need to thank me for clearing that up for you mate!

I think you need to brush up on your teaching skills as you have failed to clear that one up for me. I am a bit ignorant mind, as you indicated earlier, so may have an excuse mate!

I’m a teacher and before that i worked as a coder pushing 18 hour days and teaching is the hardest thing i have ever done.

you seriously find this hard to understand? 😀

or are you just being obtuse in order to have more evidence to support your world view

you seriously find this hard to understand?

Yes. I am uncertain of the exact meaning of the sentence as there was no further explanation in the post of why the work is “harder”, which is a very subjective statement.

evidence to support your world view

Not understanding what you mean by this either?

If you mean that in my experience I encountered a lot of very poor teachers, who really didn’t give a **** about the children, then how will feigning stupidity help with this?

The vast majority of teachers have secure, well paid, public sector, pensioned jobs, with far more leave than most. The overall package appears good but all you ever hear from them, is how bad everything is. If it’s so crap then get out and do something else.

OP. So it’s not you working 26wks a year then? What’s wrong with people choosing to be teachers?

The unhappy teachers are very vocal but most of the teachers that I have met personally over the years like or love their jobs. No different from most jobs.

Why are the teachers not correcting the obvious mistake? It’s in the title. The majority of bleating (on here at least) comes from non-teachers making (largely unfounded) digs at teachers. Not quite sure why this is the case but in most cases inaccurate and unnecessary IMO.

Winston dog, He doesnt say why its harder but the question of hours is clear. But that doesnt support you view of moaning teachers who have an easy life.

Oh and if its such a cushy job why do we have teacher shortages and 2/5 of trained teachers leave the profession within five years?

He doesnt say why its harder but the question of hours is clear. But that doesnt support you view of moaning teachers who have an easy life.

If it is clear then is he saying he is working more or less hours as a teacher?

I don’t think teachers have an easy life. Far from it. I would imagine it is difficult. However, and this goes for any profession, if it’s shit then stop moaning and change your employer. In this life we are all volunteers and you spend too much of your time at work to be unhappy while you are there.

The problem with paperwork and metrics is present in every profession. It’s the modern world, deal with it. There are more regulations and standards in every sector, ISO, H&S requirements, justification for expenditure, expense audits, mandatory certification etc.
I have to deal with all stuff like that in my job and the vast majority of it doesn’t help it simply complicates things. However it’s unavoidable.

Public sector workers as a whole, rightly or wrongly, have a reputation for “bleating” in the media, hence the OP.

Having been a teacher (among other things) and now in the forces, teaching was far harder than deploying to Afghanistan, mostly due to the hours and the corresponding impact on my life and health. I might have been able to put up with that if I felt like the effort I put into teaching was appreciated or worthwhile but it wasn’t – attitude of the kids (more likely down to the parents) and the negative image in the media made it pointless to sacrifice so much. The attitude of Gove has just made things worse.

Thats the thing though isnt it the vast majority of teachers want a better education system so that kids get better education and what many mistake for moaning about their job is actually moaning about the education of kids being held back or hindered by the latest government ruse.

winston, have you told us what your job is in the thread?

Thats the thing though isnt it the vast majority of teachers want a better education system so that kids get better education and what many mistake for moaning about their job is actually moaning about the education of kids being held back or hindered by the latest government ruse.

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn’t want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

Also, it isn’t the politicians that create and implement new systems and procedures. These are created by teaching professionals surely?

If it’s a case of being asked to do more for less or the same money, that’s not unique to teaching.

winston, have you told us what your job is in the thread?

No. It’s not really relevant.

No. It’s not really relevant

I think it is. You have a go at a group of people then you should be prepared to answer this question.

Also maybe your salary and number of weeks of holiday a year?

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn’t want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

Or, cheap labour?

Also, it isn’t the politicians that create and implement new systems and procedures. These are created by teaching professionals surely?

Nope, much of the workload is created in response to government initiatives/changes and in response to Ofsted.

What the teaching profession really needs is for more people to slag it off based on half-remembered tabloid newspaper articles and the pronouncements of Michael Gove. That’ll sort it.

All the teachers I know work their arses off and most are considering quitting because of all the nonsense they have to put up with. They do love to moan though!

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn’t want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

so his latest thing of getting year 9 kids in state schools to do the private sector common entrance exam isnt being done to make the private schools look good? Lets enter state school kids in a test for which they cannot acieve the prize.
Oh and Goves(and any other Edu Sec to be fair) changes do directly increase my work load.

in response to Ofsted.

Ofsted is the Office for Standards in Education, Children’s Services and Skills. We report directly to Parliament and we are independent and impartial. We inspect and regulate services which care for children and young people, and those providing education and skills for learners of all ages.

So it’s apolitical.

Also maybe your salary and number of weeks of holiday a year?

I mention that in my semi-rant about the crap teachers I experienced.

All the teachers I know work their arses off and most are considering quitting because of all the nonsense they have to put up with.

Working your arse off is very subjective isn’t it?
Quitting because someone is trying to measure their effectiveness in their job?

Closer to £100k Gross and 16 weeks holiday a year

So what is you problem then? You get paid more and work less then them.

Ofsted do not force through changes to exams content and timing that directly comes from Gove. But if you think ofsted is apolitical you are either very uninformed, hoplessly nieve or just daft.

work less then them.

No. I have more annual leave than them. Not quite the same.

Besides I’m not bleating or am I employed by the state.

As a UK citizen I reserve my right to criticise our public servants.

But if you think ofsted is apolitical you are either very uninformed, hoplessly nieve or just daft.

Possibly all 3.

Serious question – Does the executive component of OFSTED completely change when the government changes? Wasn’t it created by Labour?

Do you not see the news. Gove just failed to re-new the contract of the chief of Ofsted (labour one coincidently)and stuck a Tory one in power instead!

Outrageous!

Besides I’m not bleating

Really?

I’m assuming this has been mentioned already but wasn’t there a study out recently saying primary teachers work 60 hours a week on average? I’d call that working your arse off personally and if you don’t maybe you just have a crap job? 😛

Serious question – Does the executive component of OFSTED completely change when the government changes? Wasn’t it created by Labour?

No, and also no.

Prior to 1992, schools were inspected by Local Education Authority (LEA)-employed inspectors. However, this system fell into disrepute because of inconsistent standards across the country and concerns about the independence of inspectors of local chief education officers and councillors.

The Office for Standards in Education (Ofsted) was formed under the Education (Schools) Act 1992, as part of the major overhaul and centralisation of the school system begun by the Education Reform Act 1988, which introduced the National Curriculum, extensive testing in schools and the publication of league tables. The impetus to form Ofsted also came partially from the perceived unwillingness of left-leaning LEAs and inspectors to implement elements of the Conservative government’s agenda. (my bold bits) Source

You may be thinking of the bit where labour in 1997 expanded the remit of ofsted to include social care etc.

I’m assuming this has been mentioned already but wasn’t there a study out recently saying primary teachers work 60 hours a week on average? I’d call that working your arse off personally and if you don’t maybe you just have a crap job?

I frequently work more than 60 hours a week so my job must be crap! 🙂

I find that 60hr average very hard to believe. If that’s the average then there must be a lot working far in excess of that. Link to the study?

Government ruse? Surely even Gove doesn’t want to deliberately wreck the education system? Even if the whole Tory party is conspiring to make the rich richer they still need an educated population to do so?

New minister gets in every 5 years, wants to stamp his/her individuality on it to be remembered for posterity, so moves the goalposts. 5 years later the same happens. Unfortunately, if this happens every time we get a new government then there is no continuity, teachers get frustrated and the pupils get confused.
Not a problem reserved to Tory governments, but Gove is particularly bad at handing out ill-thought through missives.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/teachers-workload-diary-survey-2013

I frequently work more than 60 hours a week so my job must be crap!

Sounds rubbish to me. 😐

Can I just say a huge thank you to everyone here who isn’t a teacher and has been positive about standing up for us.

I’ve come back to this thread thinking it would be people being very negative and verbally bashing us, and actually it seems to be a minority of misinformed individuals being negative and seems like there is a large number of people recognising that there are a lot of political reasons and media slurs that have caused a bit of “bleating” to happen in the last couple of years.

So thanks for this, made my day… (alongside Winston Dog’s claiming to earn twice what a head teacher does (200k+ then) with 20 weeks off a year when he left school with no qualifications)

Anyone read this?

Winston,

Funny you find it hard to believe when you have multiple sources above talking about their partners and the long hours (evenings and weekends) that they have witnessed them working… those posts aren’t coming from teachers, they are coming from people who have witnessed first hand other people putting in long hours.

I find that 60hr average very hard to believe. If that’s the average then there must be a lot working far in excess of that. Link to the study?

you seem to be implying that there will be a corresponding number of teachers who despite physically standing in front of and being directly responsible for a class of 30 small children for 28-30 hours a week manage to do the following in significantly less than the other 30 hours:
planning
marking
meeting/phoning parents (30 sets of parents, remember?)
supervising student teachers
supervising/’line managing’ TA’s ( i am aware that there is a better expression for this in teaching but i forget what it is.)
supervising playtimes/wet play lunchtimes
appraisals/managment
professional development
mandatory training
safegaurding children supervision/followup
schoool plays
fundraisers/fayres etc.

Seems pretty realistic to me!

So thanks for this, made my day… (alongside Winston Dog’s claiming to earn twice what a head teacher does (200k+ then) with 20 weeks off a year when he left school with no qualifications)

I corrected myself on this. Assumed heads were on about 50k, thinking more head of dept really.

£100k a year and 16 weeks leave. Left school at 16 with 1 O level and 2 CSE’s.

Another arrogant bleating teacher.

I will apologise for my bitterness but as I said earlier I had some terrible teachers. No attempt at career guidance, no attempt to engage with me.

Now if you knew a “lively” 11 yr old, not perfect but not a “bad’un”, that lost their father in the space of 2 weeks, who then started acting a lot more disruptive, how would you handle it?

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week

That survey data is collected by asking them what they worked. There is no actual checking. Even in the article it says that the ones who had worked the most hours would be more likely to respond.

Now that has to be flawed! If you are one of the hard core bleaters then you could easily exaggerate your hours.

Another arrogant bleating teacher.

You’re the one boasting about how much you earn and how much leave you get. Don’t get why you’re still so bitter though.

The survey isn’t perfect but it’s better evidence than you’re presenting (ie none). FWIW my friend reckons she works about 50 hours a week on average.

Don’t feed the trolls

Now if you knew a “lively” 11 yr old, not perfect but not a “bad’un”, that lost their father in the space of 2 weeks, who then started acting a lot more disruptive, how would you handle it?

I would handle it as I have done many times before, by abandoning my normal workload for a while to talk to the student, the students family, head of year and tutor before discussing, at length, what strategies to put in place. Once that was done I would ensure strategies were being used and monitor progress over the following weeks/months/years. At some point, probably later that evening/week/term I’d make up the hours because I still need to plan, mark, train teachers etc.

A lot of schools have about 800-1000 students, do you think you’re at all unique in having a bad time? There are a LOT of students out there having a much, much worse time & many of those are in very good schools.

For the record “bad-un” is crap. There are only people.

Another arrogant bleating teacher

If you’re not a troll you have major unresolved issues regarding your schooling.

You had some shit teachers. Move on.

We have 2000 students, and I teach around a hundred of them. Most years, we deal with deaths of parents, deaths of other students, being made homeless, psychological issues, drink and drug problems.

You’re the one boasting about how much you earn and how much leave you get. Don’t get why you’re still so bitter though.

That was in response to an arrogant, sarcastic remark from a teacher, when I initially mention the crappy education I had received.

That survey is ridiculous. So a survey commissioned by your employer, to find out how many hours you work, so this can be addressed, by either making your job easier or pay you more money. There is no audit or cross check to your response and I would guess it was anonymous. So are you going to make sure you get the message across by probably putting the hours for a “one off” week as if it was normal?

FWIW my friend reckons she works about 50 hours a week on average.

That’s not a lot for a professional person. Considering a lot of that will include the extra curricula stuff, sport, plays etc. Not exactly graft is it? Add in the generous leave and it’s not too bad at all.