It’s all gone a bit “mate” hasn’t it mates?

On a side note… all the teachers on here should bod up for a ride in the summer 🙂

winston_dog – genuinely not looking to pick a fight here but did you ‘mature’ i.e. gain focus, responsibility, desire etc after school rather than whilst you were there?

Of course.

However, any focus and responsibility was basically knocked out of me at school. It’s only when you look back that you realise how badly the school let me and loads of others down.

I was lucky but I know loads of others who weren’t.

We’re not talking some inner city sink estate either. Just a comp in a provincial town.

The violence wasn’t too good either. My mate had a finger broken when we got caned for nothing. I was lucky got away with deep brusing that lasted for weeks.

.and I bet I could whip your ass on a bike. Just saying.

Of course you could , you have 20 weeks holiday a year to do your training and even when you work you are finished by 3.30 . 😆

Winston – who taught you to gain all the qualifications you have?

Wasn’t a teacher was it?

More “lecturer” than teacher.

Luckily for me I get taught by a gifted and brilliant guy for my maths and physics when I was about 23. The difference was in that environment they didn’t have any effect on your life as such. Not in the bullying way my earlier teachers had.

I have 2 sisters who were teachers, a SiL and 2 of my nieces teach. I hope they do a better job than the useless shower I had.

You may of guessed, I am just little bit bitter about my school.

Lean? Lean?!!! Pacesetter anyway? Continuous improvement? Emperor’s new clothes anyone? Whilst useful at its core it should never be an industry in itself which is what it seems to be. What happened to encouraging people who do the job to make suggestions and managers implementing the worthwhile ones?

However, Mike… what you don’t realise is that even with applying every lean method there is, there still isn’t enough time in the day to do what is expected of you as a teacher.

I worked 70 hours last week (smart hours too), still behind where I wanted to be and have got up this morning to start planning for next week.
Very true and that is where the real change has to come in, it’s a field we don’t touch medical types are bad enough but the majority would benefit from getting out of the fire fighting for 10 mins to see the big picture (Generally the biggest whingers and hours badges) after that it’s management and I’d have to say it might help to get more management who can manage rather than getting good teachers out of the classroom. That goes right the way up to the Counties and the Government. In order to save teaching something fundamental needs to change.

winston_dog – cheers. Sounds like had a bad experience so well done for overcoming that. I know there are pupils who seem unable to recognise what utter arses they are being whilst they being utter arses. Kids tho huh? 🙂

I take it your the typical arrogant bell end of a teacher then? Fail to recognise any talent that is slightly different from your limited imagination?

I basically left school at 16 with nothing, I am now professionally qualified to equivalent of degree level and have numerous other qualifications to support my primary profession.

I work in a very specialist area of my industry, for one of the World leaders in that sector and probably earn twice what a head teacher does and here’s the rub, I actually get more time off!

I have very little respect for the teaching profession.

Hmmm, I’m guessing you had a crap time at school. Things have changed a lot.
You may see it as liberal-lefty hand wringing BS, but education is much more focused on trying to get the best from each child. Practices like ECM (every child matters) have meant that we try to recognise the latent talents in children and encourage them. Yes, we still have to teach the core subjects, and there are always going to be kids for whom school is something to fight against whatever we do (you were one such kid I’m guessing?).

What it boils down to is I really enjoy teaching. Some days I might moan, but I never have a day when I regret my choice.
Point in case, we’re introducing yr8s to electronics at the moment, and I had a class with some difficult pupils in using breadboards, resistors and LEDs to make simple light circuits. No prior knowledge, and some of these kids would rather be anywhere but school. Absolute silence and concentration. Once they got the idea of what a resistor does they spent a good 35 minutes working in pairs trying different resistors in series and parallel, and then writing up what happened. Then at then end one lad who probably has 2-3 detentions every week for disruption thanked me for a fun lesson 😀 made my day.

Unfortunately, it’s probably too late to change your mind about education and teachers, but we do try.

The 18 hour days were relating to a coding job, not teaching if I read the related post correctly.

winston_dog – genuinely interested, would you say you’matured’ i.e. gain focus, responsibility, desire etc after school rather than whilst you were there?

judging by the rubbish he writes in his post I dont think he has matured
oh and if you call me a bell end in one post and mate in the next its no wonder you did badly at school

Winston – who taught you to gain all the qualifications you have?

Wasn’t a teacher was it?

similar to Winston. great infants and primary teachers, but secondary schooling was a joke, teachers more interested in their lunchtime pint than pupils plus a bit of sadistic P.E. abuse (15 stone teachers stepping on and off 13year old boys stomachs while they lay on the gym floor), luckily i had 2 fantastic tutors in higher education

Applying Lean methodology to teaching, only on STW. 🙄

but the majority would benefit from getting out of the fire fighting for 10 mins to see the big picture

Maybe instead of killing the alligators they could drain the swamp eh?

Or while they are fighting off the hordes with a sword they can’t hear that you’re knocking on the door with a good deal on machine guns?

Actually, no, c’mon enlighten us, what did the book say about this teaching big picture you talk of?

Nick – house lol

winston_dog – Member
All this shite about working 18hr days!

If you ever really have worked 18hr days you would realise it’s almost impossible to sustain for any length of time. If teacher needs to work 18hr a day then they must be doing something wrong.

The teaching profession must of changed since the 70’s and 80’s, the majority of teachers I knew were pretty lazy, disinterested, chain smoking arseholes. With a few psychopaths thrown in for good measure. The good ones were very much in the minority.

They also aquired a chip on their shoulders big enough to sink the titanic,lotsof skilled and unskilled people work 12 hour days, get called in on days off to covber and all for a lot less money, think tradesmen, and care workers.

Other jobs are available to ex teachers who find they have to add up every minute in the day to make an hour then multiply by cups of tea to make it look like theyre always working.

Actually,e no, c’mon enlighten us, what did the book say about this teaching big picture you talk of?

Nothing, one of the biggest points is that there are similarities in all fields. Working out how to use time more effectively is a skill rarely taught and something I see the impact of across most professions. Deciding that you are doing the best and most efficient job you can normally means your not.

I used to think that I had shit teachers at secondary and that I had to “overcome” their ineptitude myself. I left a crap school with good grades and went on to do reasonably well in tertiary education. Took quite some time to realise that (with a couple of notable exceptions) the teachers had actually done far more than should have ever been expected. My classes were full of thugs and people with no interest in being schooled, yet I still got an education that allowed me to walk out with 8 Highers at A and B level. Like I said, took me a long time to stop patting myself on the back for that and realise how much effort those teachers must have put in to help a pupil attain good grades despite the chaos that normally filled each lesson.

In my supposedly cutthroat super efficient private sector firm, 2000 billable hours would be considered a pretty impressive record over a year.

There is very little correlation between billable hours and working hours though. I had a minimum requirement of 1850 billable hours, with decent bonus kicking in at about 2100. I could have a year billing 2000 billable hours and be in the office from 6am until 10pm every day or in one year I hit 2200 hours working on one or two things from 7am until 7pm most days. It used to pain me having a month where I felt like i’d worked non stop and then my hours would be at or even below target. One of the reasons I left private practice, no opportunity to really focus on the quality when your job is on the line if you don’t hit the quantity.

I take it your the typical arrogant bell end of a teacher then? Fail to recognise any talent that is slightly different from your limited imagination?

I basically left school at 16 with nothing, I am now professionally qualified to equivalent of degree level and have numerous other qualifications to support my primary profession.

I work in a very specialist area of my industry, for one of the World leaders in that sector and probably earn twice what a head teacher does and here’s the rub, I actually get more time off!

I have very little respect for the teaching profession.

I went into teaching because I was taught badly by most, and wanted to break the cycle. I work hard to inspire my pupils. I try to be innovative in my delivery. When students argue their point constructively with me, I’m delighted; I’ve help contribute to that sense of enquiry. I do not care about money, although my family are happy I earn enough to keep us comfortable. I’m highly respected by my staff and my students; the former because I wouldn’t ask them to do anything I wouldn’t be prepared to do myself, and the latter because I will always listen to them, regardless of what tough decisions I have to make in their interests. I deal with neglect, anger, fear, depression, child abuse, and other unsavoury emotional factors daily.

I’m genuinely glad that you have succeeded despite your poor schooling. Nothing feels as good as smiting those that didn’t believe in you, thats for sure.

But could you do what I do? Judging by the rhetoric in your posts, probably not.

I’m highly respected by my stafffellow forumities and my students; the former because I wouldn’t ask them to do anything I wouldn’t be prepared to do myself, and the latter because I will always listen to them, regardless of what tough decisions I have to make in their interests. I deal with neglect, anger, fear, depression, child abuse, and other unsavoury emotional factors daily.

Bit like being a moderator then.

I think teachers do a briliant job and are largely uncredited for the work they do.
In many other countries teachers are highly regarded and respected, paid well to match, but always work long hard hours.
My sister is a teacher in the north east and her working hours are very long. Full days at school and then at least a few hours before and after school marking, lesson planninag and filling on reports and paperwork. She is very over worked and the primary reason is the amount of paperwork needed to be completed.
She has also worked in Japan as a teacher where the hours were also long but the job was much more respected and she was paid better.
The secondary reason being a teacher is so hard in the UK is that they are not respected by pupils and their parents.

I have a mate who’s a teacher. He whines about it a lot but still manages to be out almost every weekend and goes on multiple holidays. Personally I couldn’t do it as I hate kids.

Bit like being a moderator then

Christ no! How could my family survive on free socks, energy gels and STW back-issues?? 😆

I want Winston’s job – £150k pa and 13 weeks holiday a year.

I’ve clearly messed up badly along the way – too much time hanging out in bonkers law firms like peterfile working like a dog in one of the most inefficient sectors out there.

I don’t think its easier or harder than any other similarly paid job to be honest. My mum was a teacher, I have 4 mates who are teachers, and none work 18 hour days. They work pretty much the same hours as I do, never have to work away from home and get better holidays.

My issue with the teaching profession is that it really is a job for life, regardless of how hopeless you are. In my line of work if you are useless you get the boot, which just doesn’t happen in the teaching profession. To quote a friend who is a teacher when asked if he’d consider going to work in a private school, his response was ‘not for me, if I was no good I might get the sack’

Just to clarify, i’m not saying all teachers are useless, far from it. As with any job there are some very good ones, and some very bad ones.

All depends which school you work at too I guess. I know some schools where the kids are super respectful and polite but then their is the other end of the scale where the kids really make the teachers work for their money ha ha.

go away spammer

If you are a useless teacher it must be the worst job in the world. Many many teachers leave. Thats not to say there arent lots of shit ones. Its just that the chronic lack of good teachers cant be cured by only looking at one side of the problem which is what Gove is doing.

LOL at the spammer, you get paid to sit and post those links?
have you thought about teaching? it’s far more rewarding.

similar to Winston. great infants and primary teachers, but secondary schooling was a joke, teachers more interested in their lunchtime pint than pupils plus a bit of sadistic P.E. abuse (15 stone teachers stepping on and off 13year old boys stomachs while they lay on the gym floor), luckily i had 2 fantastic tutors in higher education

Mr Smith I think you went to the same schools as me!

But could you do what I do? Judging by the rhetoric in your posts, probably not.

Surely it’s more a question of wanting to? If I wanted to and was trained correctly then yes. Same applies to my job and yourself. At the moment you couldn’t possibly but with several years training and some years of experience of course you could, if you were motivated enough.

I want Winston’s job – £150k pa and 13 weeks holiday a year.

Looks like I over estimated what teachers get paid. Closer to £100k Gross and 16 weeks holiday a year. However, I know plenty of people who earn £70 – £100k NET with 26 weeks leave a year.

I still stand by the statement that no competent teacher works 18 hours a day. Anyone who believes that has never worked long hours themselves.

I still stand by the statement that no competent teacher works 18 hours a day. Anyone who believes that has never worked long hours themselves.

This is true.
We work on events and for some we do have 18 hour days, even the fittest and most hyper of the the team is a zombie after a week of this. It’s just not sustainable.

With a few exceptions, from the “class of 80” at our school (thanks Facebook!) most have failed to achieve their potential because Oakwood Comp in that time was an exercise in surviving unscathed, be that by fellow pupils, teachers or the kids in the school down the road. We were all being geared up for a career in the steel industry or down the pit, “A degree son is a waste of time and money”, Mr Roberts, careers teacher, 1980.

The 18 hour days were relating to a coding job, not teaching if I read the related post correctly.

I’m a teacher and before that i worked as a coder pushing 18 hour days and teaching is the hardest thing i have ever done.

It’s a bit ambiguous, not sure if it means he’s doing more than 18 hrs a day or that he’s doing less hours but they are harder?

Seems clear to me.

To the OP troll. Where do you get your numbers from? £100k and. 16wks holiday a year. State schools are 13weeks year and (look at the figures) teachers start in mid £20ks and heads of departments in £40ks.

My wife has been a teacher for 20yrs and no way does she work 18hrs a day (actually she one works 2.5days a week). However when she did work full time she worked most evenings weekends and holidays.

Like most professions there are good and bad teachers. Good ones enjoy there jobs and usually stay long term. Poor ones do get kicked out now (probably unlike when the OP was at school).

Of course lots of people don’t get on with school and do well despite not doing well there. Also many people earn much more than teachers, however the majority of teachers are dedicate, hardworking and good at their job.

Seems clear to me.

Please enlighten those of us that don’t have your scintillating teachers intellect.

Some of you need to work in a kitchen/restaurant…

100k what ?central african francs ?

100k what ?central african francs ?

GBP – The clue was the “£” symbol.

Oh right its only the quantity thats wrong then – silly me i thought you just got the symbol wrong.

Oh right its only the quantity thats wrong then – silly me i thought you just got the symbol wrong.

I’m not talking about teachers salaries, I’m on about my own industry.

Yeah i just read back during my tea break. Sorry was sure you said teachers earned that . If they did i wouldnt need to work. 🙁