• This topic has 31 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 9 years ago by luke.
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  • Talk to me about walking/hiking/yomping (Dartmoor)…
  • UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Off walking in Dartmoor in a couple of weekends time. Two full days of walking, 15-20m, with an overnight in a princetown bunkhouse. Just after some info from experienced walkers….

    1. Are full on walking boots the order of the day, or can I get away with a good pair of approach shoes?

    2. Water. How much for a day of walking?

    Anything else worth thinking about?

    ontor
    Free Member

    1. Depends on where you go – I’d advise boots for most
    2. Depends on where you go & what the weather is. I usually refill from streams as I go

    3. Waterproofs, Jumper, map & Compass

    Dartmoor is a frequently under-reckoned expanse of upland wilderness. There are frequent total fogs & the weather can change very, very quickly. I have seen it go from sunshine to white-out in minutes.

    If you want guiding/route suggestions etc just give me a shout.

    aleonardwilliams
    Free Member

    ^^^^ what ontor said. worth packing full water proofs and def boots as there’s frequently bog trotting involved. the temp can be 5 – 10 degrees cooler on the top than in the towns that are on the edge (tavistock, ashburton etc).
    it is stunningly beautiful though, in it’s own unique way, and very quiet, only crowds of people at a handful of “sacrifical” spots. Enjoy!

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    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Nice one. Cheers,

    One of the other guys is planning the route, a meandering, geocached and letterbox studded north to south from Okehampton to Ivybridge, with a stop in Princetown. Pretty sure means there will be a bit of everything on the terrain front.

    So boots, definitely the way forward for bogland? Are you likely to loose walking shoes in bog?

    Yep, aware of the weather, and not taking it for granted etc. So waterproofs, maps+compass, warm cloths already on the list.

    Looking forward to the remoteness, and lack of crowds etc. And the camera is packed.

    rkk01
    Free Member

    Dartmoor…

    Used to know it like the back of my hand.

    Boots – I’d go for full walking boots. You don’t really get the full screes of the higher mountains, but the long hummocky vegetation, granite clitters and very wet bog conditions will play hell with anything else…

    Water – one thing Dartmoor isn’t short of. Depends on how you feel about drinking from streams. I used to, but there’s been plenty of times I wished I hadn’t.

    Nav. Well here is Dartmoor’s greatest challenge and danger. Don’t rely on phone / GPS. Take a 1:50k or 1:25k map, a compass and know how to use them. Large swathes of the moor are “featureless” to the uninitiated, but as with anywhere there are loads of subtle waypoints and markers in the landscape. Avoid the large bog areas, they can be a real challenge to cross.

    That said, a day or two day exped across Dartmoor is very rewarding. A good route “might look like”… Start at the NW corner – Sourton Tors or Meldon reservoir, head up the West Okement valley, checking out the ancient Black-a-Tor copse (and the tragic PB4-Y Liberator crash site), head up the north valley slope to somewhere like Fordsland Ledge / Dinger / Yes Tor, east to Steeperton Tor, head all the way south along the east edge (care required with bogs – cross the Teign at the N / S Teign confluence) continue south to the falls on the East Dart, then to Higher White Tor, Two Bridges and then west to Great Mis Tor / Princetown area.

    Not for the faint hearted, or bad weather, unless your good at hill navigation!

    Enjoy, whatever you end up doing, and post back…!

    julianwilson
    Free Member

    Boots, yes! Depends on the route, but many paths marked on maps are not so obvious on the ground on the open moor, and big plus one for the changeability of the weather and perhaps more alarmingly the visibility. Even in summer! Also some bogs are alarmingly deep if you stray off paths onto open bog-land. When we were at primary school they used to scare us with stories of people still being stuck in the, to this day…. Also remember the army ranges/firing bits but i am sure you have thought about this and they don’t generally fire on weekends if that is when you are going.

    Plume of feathers in princetown is a great pub with decent outdoorsy sized portions. not sure about the bunkhouse as i live so close i have never stayed there. Jail ale is of course mandatory drink and brewed about 50 yards away but sold all over the south west. Also the Royal Oak in Meavy is a great pub/food/tea stop if you go that way, and community owned/run too. There is also the best named burger van (well its quite a. bit better than a burger van!) at hound tor called the Hound Of The Basket Meals which is a lovely food stop in a truly lovely corner of dartmoor.

    Reliased i have a lot more ideas about eating and drinking on dartmoor than walking or riding for that matter. 😳

    ontor
    Free Member

    With that route you’ll be passing through two serious mires – I’d advise bringing gaiters too if you have them – they’ll help when you go knee-deep.
    Navigationally your trickiest bit will be south dartmoor around green hill etc. Trust your compass. The only place it’s going to be affected by anything is on the spoil heap at redlake.

    I’m sure you’ll really enjoy it – best of luck and have fun!

    rkk01
    Free Member

    With that route you’ll be passing through two serious mires –

    Too true. My post assumes a good level of upland / route finding ability. One of the other posts has mentioned “paths”. Unlike many UK upland areas, you find your own way on Dartmoor.

    ontor
    Free Member

    One of the other posts has mentioned “paths”. Unlike many UK upland areas, you find your own way on Dartmoor.

    Very true – it’s one of the reasons I love the moor so much.
    I’ve even walked to every tor in the national park. I was trying to get a completions book going but so far as I’ve found, it’s only me. 🙁

    cheekyboy
    Free Member

    granite clitters

    Fantastic 😀

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Not too worried about walking without a path, but not 100 percent keen on the idea of water crossing!

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Then dartmoor isn’t for you…

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    99% keen though! Wasn’t 100% keen on mountain biking till I tried it!

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Streams on the high moors rise/fall quickly. Without recent heavy rain(12hrs this time of year) they’ll be empty.

    dooge
    Free Member

    I lived in Tavi for a few years, I can only advise making sure you are prepared. Boots are a yes, waterproofs are a must have. Also as mentioned above have a good map, compass and leave a route of your trip with the bunkhouse just in case. I have been involved in searches on Dartmoor and surrounding area for walkers that have got lost on Dartmoor and colleagues have been involved in pulling a woman from a bog. It was blind luck we found her although have some experienced and knowledgable people!

    Enough of the doom and gloom, enjoy it and take in the fantastic views 🙂

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    And, about water. How much water do you need for a day in the hills? Its not like biking, it seems like a lunch time cafe stop is out of the question! Is it practical to carry a whole day’s worth?

    ontor
    Free Member

    You could carry 3-4L or so with you but you’re far better resupplying along the way. From guessing your route you’ll never be far from the Taw and the East Dart for most of the time. Take some chlorine-dioxide* tablets with you and you’ll be fine.

    *You can almost certainly drink the water straight out of the stream but if you’ve ever suffered cryptosporidium or giardia I promise you you’ll never forget it.

    jam-bo
    Full Member

    Is it this weekend? Looking like a scorcher…*

    *In dartmoor terms.

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Cheers ontor, so you think 3-4L is about right for a day? We’re still thinking that detail over. Probably go for it with water, but take tabs just in case.

    benp1
    Full Member

    I’m not a dartmoor expert so treat this with caution, but I stopped walking in boots ages ago

    I have boots (Meindl Burmas) but generally find them heavy, clumsy, and once wet very uncomfortable

    I wear trail running shoes for all my walking, not that I’ve done much recently. My current pair are Salomon Speedcross 2s

    I sometimes wear light gaiters to stop grit going in the top, but I don’t mind wet feet. Merino socks and walking means your feet are warm even when wet, and when there’s a dry stretch they dry out surprisingly quickly as they’re so breathable

    If water gets in over the top of your boots then they take an age to dry out. I used to wear gaiters to stop this but even the most breathable waterproof boots mean you’ll have damp feet from sweat. The only time I do weat this set up is in the snow as I found my feet just don’t dry out quick enough when I’m wearing trail runners

    I’ve used this approach in the lake district, peak district, brecon beacons, exmoor, dartmoor etc etc.

    There’s a supposed saying, 1 pound on your feet is like 5 pounds on your back.

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Interesting Benp1. That is what I was sort of thinking. Trail running shoes + gaiters. I can’t see much downside*, but lots of upsides. Walking through bog land, maybe more likely to lose a shoe than a boot?

    *I’m guessing one down side is ankle support, but generally thing that boot are overrated in this department unless your talking rigid ski boots.

    jonnouk
    Free Member

    Ontor got it one really.

    I did loads of hiking when I was a teenager doing ten tors (0840 & 0819 finishes on a 45m route got me on local telly each year), perambulation & South moors walks, scouts, etc. Knew the place off by heart and could navigate myself around N&S dartmoor without a map and compass…until the mist came down and you could easily walk past a tor and not know it even on a bearing.

    As for boots. There are few smooth tracks and as soon as you get into the bastard grass it can be a lottery if you are about to put your foot into a soft hole which can do your ankle in, even in boots. Even then, you can pop your knee back if you aren’t careful.

    Water? Take puritabs. There’s plenty of it up there and I never knew anyone get ill. My friend never bothered with tabs and he was alreet. Just make sure to fill up from a fast spot. I used to carry a 3L platypus and rarely needed to fill it up on a 45miler.

    If you do walk in through the bastard grass in the wet or the bogs embrace the wet feet and wear shorts or get yetis. I found gaiters delay the inevitable.

    Have fun!

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Thanks Jonnouk. Plenty of good info, appreciated. I’m still not 100% convinced by boots, boots certainly don’t prevent you from popping a knee!

    Twisting an ankle I sort of believe, but find the argument a little like not being able to ride a rigid fork bike off road. You can still do it, its just a different skill, and in some cases not as fast etc.

    jonnouk
    Free Member

    Just seen which way you are going. I recommend going the west side of the North moor via Kitty, Lynch, Great Mis & into Princetown (couple of routes into here, take your pick). The hill up to Kitty is nasty though but it’s less boggy than the east route and more scenic. You do get to miss the lone garden gnome by the pond in the middle of nowhere though.

    benp1
    Full Member

    Interesting Benp1. That is what I was sort of thinking. Trail running shoes + gaiters. I can’t see much downside*, but lots of upsides. Walking through bog land, maybe more likely to lose a shoe than a boot?

    *I’m guessing one down side is ankle support, but generally thing that boot are overrated in this department unless your talking rigid ski boots.

    The boots thing is hyped up from people wearing clumsy great big things on the end of your feet carrying half your house

    Picture this – guys who do proper fell running. They run in a vest and shorts, all over the place, and cover more ground than us. Can you imagine them in boots?

    If you carry loads of stuff you’ll need all sorts of support to cushion yourself. If you pack light and think light you’ll be fine. I’ve turned my ankle in boots, they’re so clumsy you can’t place your feet carefully so you just plonk them on anything. In barefoot you’d place your feet in a specific place, trail runners are somewhere in the middle

    I know its a specific mindset, but there are people in the lightweight backpacker category (5-10kg baseweight, me included) that wear trail runners and walk serious distances, long distance trail etc (not me!)

    I’ve never had a problem with this and if I’m honest don’t see myself going back. I genuinely don’t see any real benefit for most 3 season conditions

    jonnouk
    Free Member

    The boots thing is hyped up from people wearing clumsy great big things on the end of your feet carrying half your house

    Picture this – guys who do proper fell running. They run in a vest and shorts, all over the place, and cover more ground than us. Can you imagine them in boots?

    I don’t know what distance they do but the fastest my team ever did was a touch over 43miles in 13hrs. We only stopped because it was a new moon and we had no idea where we were. With a full 65L, wet bag on my back I would not have wanted to wear shoes through bastard grass.

    Del
    Full Member

    there are patches as mentioned on the north moor where thick clumps of grass that come up to almost your knees cover ~ 70% of the ground. you’re either on top of them or amongst them.
    you can’t really see the ground to place your feet precisely when you’re amongst them and walking on top of them there is the obvious risk of falling off.
    i don’t remember exactly where-abouts this was but i remember it going on for a while!

    ontor
    Free Member

    I really don’t want to get into the lightweight argument here, it’s not about an ideological perspective, rather about trying to give the best advice for the individual asking for it. Fwiw I agree entirely about shedding as much weight as possible and am a huge fan of ultralight hiking, often using walshes or speedcross trainers.

    I would argue that traversing Dartmoor is a bit different to most places you will hike and my recommendation for boots, stands. In terms of “credentials” for making this I do guide and supervise on the moor a lot, I’m ML trained and have walked to every tor, (almost) every cross and the course of most of the rivers etc.

    On your route you (probably) will be fine whatever you use and for some of it trainers would be an excellent choice, you will be wet footed in shoes if you care about that sort of thing but the point of the recommendation is not entirely comfort.
    Because of the questions you’re asking on here, I’d guess that you’ve not got a lot of experience at longer hikes and hence the muscles you use to stabilize your joints will not be as strong (sorry cycling doesn’t help enough) as in someone that is out a lot. By the end you will be tired and more clumsy than when you begin. Couple these factors with the bogs, the tussock grass, the sinkholes etc that Del and jonnouk have already illustrated and you have your answer. People do twist knees and ankles every year, and I wouldn’t want you to spoil your weekend by being one of them.
    My good and very experienced fell running friend did just that on our run to fur tor last autumn.

    For what it’s worth here are the boots I use for those sort of trips:

    http://www.salewa.us/product/mountaineering/ms-rapace-gtx

    they are light, stiff, supportive and very comfortable.

    Whilst i’m at it – if you (or anyone else) want a day/weekend/week of guided adventure/advice/training etc. anytime then do get in touch.

    anjs
    Free Member

    Oh and watch out for carpet bogs

    benp1
    Full Member

    Ontor’s advice sounds pretty sensible to me

    A big part of this is what you’re carrying/packing, and how experienced you are. Boots is definitely a safe bet

    UrbanHiker
    Free Member

    Ontor, thanks for the advice and the offer of guiding etc. Thanks to everyone for the advice. It’s been illuminating.

    We’re all keen walkers, probably averaging at least 20miles+ a week. But its all in cities etc. We plan to carry as little as possible, car at each end, and bunkhouse in the middle, so only really the bear essentials.

    Keeping fingers crossed the weather holds out till then, its not for a couple more weeks…

    luke
    Free Member

    Went walking on Dartmoor at the end of May and going back in October, pitched the tent at the plume of feathers in princetown and had a very nice evening meal there, but the summer fruit cider is not squash no matter how much it tastes like it, the Sunday walking route was done with a cloudy head.

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