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Talk me out of 1×11 over 1×10
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ciqutaFree Member
building a new bike for bikepacking purposes and can’t decide about that
my freewheel won’t support the 10t cog, so it’s gonna be 11-42 in both scenarios
on one hand I’d like 10speed for better realibility (important in a long trip)
on the other hand the sunrace mx3 has a 20% maximum gap which I fear it might be too big
what do you think?
mikewsmithFree Memberon one hand I’d like 10speed for better realibility (important in a long trip)
Why is 10sp more reliable? Had great life from my 1×11.
Is there no XD driver for your hub? The extra range is nice but you can also got the heavier 11-46t versions.If you picking the same range with an extra cog then it’s going to be closer, in the end whats the $$ difference?
johnnystormFull MemberNo difference in reliability between 10 and 11 spd imho.
The same 11spd chainring/cassette/chain lasted the whole tour divide for me.
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...jonnyboiFull Member1 x 11 isn’t a panacea of smooth even shifting, it’s still a bit clunky with a wide range cassette, plus if you have sram you can start saving now for when your cassette needs replacing.
weeksyFull MemberJust not sure i see the point of 11 speed…. Sure it’s one more…. but… anything else ?
ciqutaFree MemberIt’s a 100€ difference, not so big (unless I go with the 10t cog but 11-42 is fine for me)
I guess more speed = smaller parts and easier to fail.
Also newer = less easy to supply in a overseas trip.Is that 20% gap a big deal?
jonnyboiFull MemberGx cassette is about the same price as XT.
Yes, but it’s the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering
jonnyboiFull MemberJust not sure i see the point of 11 speed…. Sure it’s one more…. but… anything else ?
2×11 shimano is the smoothest shifting gearset I’ve owned, although with an 11-32 cassette
sharkattackFull MemberI haven’t seen 11 speed that works nicely yet. I mean technically, it works perfectly. It’s just the noise. Really clunky and notchy with big gaps in the gearing.
weeksyFull Member2×11 shimano is the smoothest shifting gearset I’ve owned, although with an 11-32 cassette
what do you mean by smooth ? I press the button, it goes down, i press it again, it goes down again…. In the reverse, it goes up…. etc. What makes it ‘smoother’ ?
I didn’t notice any crazy change going from 1×9 to 1×10… Sure, i’ve got an extra gear or smaller gaps between, but how many times as an MTBer do you need/have a perfect cadenece for a perfect section, very rare… i’d bet ever with 20 gear spread there’d still be times when you’re thinking “it’s just not quite 78rpm”… But does it matter if it’s 76 or 80 instead ? Hell, not in my world.
kayak23Full Memberweeksy – Member
Just not sure i see the point of 11 speed…. Sure it’s one more…. but… anything else ?
😉NobeerinthefridgeFree Memberbut it’s the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering
As does XTR. Check the weights of XT v GX, GX is lighter and every bit as tough, if not tougher.
I have XT on one bike and GX on the other, once the XT does, I’ll be changing the freehub and going GX on both.
andylFree MemberGx cassette is about the same price as XT.
Yes, but it’s the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering
GX 10-42 can be had for £75.
XT 11 speed 11-46 is about £65-70 so yes, similar.
Sunrace 11-46 is about £55.
The GX might be next to bottom in the sram range but don’t go thinking it’s not on a par with XT. If you go spending X1 upwards money just because you think GX is low rent then you know what they say about a fool and his money!
GX weight is lower than XT and all steel. I am not a fan of 10T sprockets vs 11 but I am equally not a fan of aluminium cassette sprockets for general use as you get on the 11-46 cassettes.
There is a massive jump between Sram NX and GX. The next stage X1 is a massive hike in price for not much in terms of weight gain IMO.
As for 10 speed then an XT cassette is £35ish and like a feather compared to their 11 speed ones. But if you then add a range expander then you are doubling the cost and getting a system that is flawed so just bike the bullet and go 11 speed if you wan a 1x system.
ciqutaFree Memberif you then add a range expander then you are doubling the cost and getting a system that is flawed
you don’t need to do that
there are 10sp wide cassettes at 45£ just like sunrace mx3 and ms3andylFree Memberindeed there are. Forgot about those which is odd as I normally tell people to buy them instead of expanders. The system will still not be as good as the mech is not designed for that range. You can get it to work, and make it better with new cages and goat links etc but that’s more expense.
you may be able to use an 11 speed mech with a 10 speed system bit for the sake of a new shifter I would just go 11 speed.
I went through all this and came to the conclusion it was easier to just stick 11 speed on and go ride…
munrobikerFree MemberI’d go with 11 speed. It’s just as reliable as 10 speed. Cassette wise I’d go for a Sunrace 11-46, particularly if you’re touring as the aluminium sprockets on XT seem to be made of the weakest aluminium imaginable.
gelertFree MemberI think Shimano really messed up their 11s cassettes. The XT 10s is over 100g lighter than the XT 11s and the 10s has all steel teeth. The setup on the XT11s 42T is very finicky too for back-pedal drops (chain line). Not having access to an equivalent SRAM setup I can’t be certain it’s any different though.
I’m slowly moving back to XT10s + expander and keeping my M8000 mech and shifters. It’s worked fine on one of my bikes so I’ll do the other the same soon.
SRAM GX 11s didn’t exist when I went 11s Shimano but if I was picking parts for a build now and it wasn’t going to cost much different to choose either… I’d go GX11s cassette just for a change. If I feel flush at some point I’ll buy xD Driver bodies and GX cassettes for mine but as it is the only time I’ve noticed the gap in my 10s setup is on a pan flat canal towpath, the rest of the time it’s felt absolutely no different to the 11s setup.
scotroutesFull MemberBuilding up a new bike recently I went 11 speed. I’d been 9 speed before that and didn’t see much point in adopting something that had already been “superceded” (yes, I know that 10 speed stuff will be around for years).
There’s no reason for 11 speed to be any less reliable or robust either. While there are concerns in ingredients arguments that chain wear could be greater on 1x than 2x, my experience of our hire fleet of bikes is that 9 speed has proven to have longer longevity than 8 speed.
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTRFull MemberI’m about to fit a Sunrace 10sp to the Shan frame I’ve just bought, to make use of my old 9sp Hope hub laced to a Mavic rim. I’ll let you know how it compars to the 11sp e-13 TRS on my Capra
ciqutaFree MemberThe system will still not be as good as the mech is not designed for that range. You can get it to work, and make it better with new cages and goat links etc but that’s more expense.
good point
TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTRFull MemberI know that 10 speed stuff will be around for years
I’ve just been shopping for 10sp stuff and it’s not all that readily available tbh
NorthwindFull Memberjonnyboi – Member
Yes, but it’s the bottom rung of the SRAM 11spd ladder, the better variants that are more akin to XT can get pretty eye watering
GX is very equivalent to XT tbh. Shimano are absolutely nowhere when it comes to 11 speed cassettes. Though it’s all a bit of a muchness if you can’t fit it!
Not convinced there’s any reliability difference between 10 and 11 though. 11 speed’s actually more reliable than a non-expanded 10 speed mech- you can get them shifting well but there’s little margin for error.
IMO if you’re not getting the wider range, 11 speed doesn’t have that much advantage. 11 speed can be a fair bit lighter when you’re dealing with wide ranges but it’s pricier to do so. But it depends how you feel about ratio gaps, I’ve always liked wider gaps anyway (I had a stupid 12-25 cassette on a road bike for about 2 weeks and literally always doubleshifted it frinstance) but ymmv… I can see it might be a bigger deal for touring
OTOH, the prices are getting close too so there’s not that many reasons not to go 11, bearing in mind that the mechs are native wide-range (you can bodge it with 10 speed but I was never 100% happy with it til I fitted a radcage, and that costs) I just put 10 speed on a new build basically because I had the stuff, and because Saint 10 speed is the best bloody shifter ever.
DavesportFull MemberI’ve never snapped a 10 speed chain but have personally seen more than one 11 speed chain snap. The owner in the (not my) LBS had snapped three. I don’t know if this is a problem or not as everything I own is 9/10 speed.
And cost! 10 speed stuff’s two bob a hundredweight 😀
jonnym92Full MemberI never got my 10spd shifting right with a 11-42 Sunrace 10spd, was going to buy a new mech but then prices are so close now that I just went full 11speed (sram nx mech & shifter, sunrace 11-40 cassette)
It’s a lot better shifting wise, as the prices are so close I would just go 11 speed.
Don’t bother with the NX shifter though, seems a bit suspect to me..letmetalktomarkFull Membermy 2 cents …….
I went 1×11 about this time last year following an Evans offer on XT M8000 bits.
It was all going on a new build so I thought I would give 11speed a bash having used 10speed on my other bikes.
Honestly …. If I were doing it again I would go 10speed or save up(!) and go 11speed with a SRAM offering but not the GX range (due to it being a comparable weight to XT)
Why?
There is no getting away from the fact the 11 speed XT cassette is a boat anchor – which is a disappointment.
I currently use two Sunrace cassettes; a 11-40 & 11-42. The 11-42 was a little noisy to start but both are nice and smooth now.
ciqutaFree MemberI don’t factor weight, I’m riding loaded over long distances so reliability is the key factor for me.
I’m still 50%-50% 😐
jonnyboiFull MemberGX is very equivalent to XT tbh. Shimano are absolutely nowhere when it comes to 11 speed cassettes. Though it’s all a bit of a muchness if you can’t fit it!
No experience of shimano 11spd mtb cassettes, only shimano road 11spd.
But I think my point is still valid. Unless your bike is spec’d with sram GX you’ll either have to go back down the range or pay a huge premium to maintain the same groupset.
May not be a real world issue due to the performance of GX but it still shows that SRAM higher end cassettes are super expensive
X01 – £205
XX1 – £225mikewsmithFree MemberI’d certainly put GX above 10sp XT, the shifter feel on the twistie is the same as the X0 and has the same internals, the cassette is lighter than XT, looks better, lasts better from my experience (and a few others) – it also doesn’t have the added feature of the chain dropping 😉
X0/XX1 shares some of the same stuff with some small differences like carbon cranksjonnyboiFull MemberAnd yes, I’ve an X01 cassette on my bike that will need replacing at some point, and don’t fancy the cost or the alternative that is a weight penalty of circa 200-250g #firstworldproblems #weightweenie
wzzzzFree MemberJust get 11-46 sunrace 11spd
or 10-42 sram if your hub can be modded.
prawnyFull MemberI’d go 11 speed, 1×10 is a faff, I’ve got a sunrace cassette and the shifting/noise with a standard Deore shadow+ mech feels like it’s always at the point of exploding. Ran out of money before bought a RAD cage, and a goatlink won’t work.
Went back to an 11-36 and grunting, might go back to 2x ultimately, if my dropper post doesn’t stop being a knob.
mikewsmithFree Memberhttps://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xg-1199-x-dome-cassette
https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xg-1150-full-pin-cassette
It’s 130g
The 11-42
http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/components11/mountain/deore-xt-m8000/cs-m8000.html
is 434g so 140g more than the superior XT one which has the less durable Alu cogs…NorthwindFull MemberAye, but SRAM having better options than any of the competition can offer doesn’t make their cheaper options worse than the alternatives. If you’d have been happy with XT on your bike, there’s no reason to feel bad about “dropping down” to GX- it gives the wider range and comparable performance for a similiar price to XT.
And if you wanted XTR then the equivalent is 1180 at about £150, not the XX1 at silly money- that’d be the equivalent of XTRRR or something. (and still, XTR has a 10% narrower range to boot)
davosaurusrexFull MemberAm I right in saying SRAM 11 speed cassette max range is 10-42, i.e. no 10-46 or 11-46? So if you want want a wider range with SRAM than the 10spd Shimano 11-42 (with expander cog and RAD cage I have at the moment) you would need to either go down a size on the chainring or mega money Eagle?
mikewsmithFree MemberAm I right in saying SRAM 11 speed cassette max range is 10-42, i.e. no 10-46 or 11-46?
32/42 0.762 30/42 0.71
32/10 3.2 30/10 3.034/46 0.69
34/11 3.09thing about range is it’s not all about the big number. SRAM 11 has a great range, the 10 makes a bigger difference than you think, though a mate rode past me with eagle in the lowest with a bigger chain ring spinning away 🙂
YakFull MemberI presume shimano did the 11-46 to match the sram 10-42. (418%v420%).
I reckon it comes down to what you already have. I would use a sram cassette/xd driver if speccing wheels from new. If I had an existing wheelset and couldn’t swap to an xd driver, then I would go shimano or sunrace.
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