Hi folks. I’m after a bit of advice if that’s ok.

For unfortunate reasons this year I inherited the record collection I grew up hearing my father play. Now, I’d really like to be able to enjoy them all over again and have been flirting with the idea of buying myself a modest system, so yesterday after a few visits and a bit of research went back to my local specialist Hi-Fi centre and listened to a handful of amps, speakers, record players and cables.

I took with me a handful of vinyl I was familiar with and after starting out with a upper limit of £1000 (modest, I know) eventually landing on a system that comprised of the following:

Arcam FMJ A28 amp – £1100 down to £675
Boston M25 bookshelf speakers – £700 down to £379
Project Debut Carbon record player – £325
Atacama Nexus 6 speaker stands – £90
2x3m Chord Rumour 2 cables – £89

Total £1558

This system sounded the most natural to me, and the most controlled and accurate over the whole frequency range. The lesser amps and speaker combinations we tried sacrificed various aspects of the above in differing ways, but this combination seemed to handle it all the best. We tried a number of different styles and mixes too, from Zappa to Talking Heads.

I guess the thing is it’s an awful lot of money to me and obviously a long way over my initial budget, but I want to get it right first time round and I want to do both the records and my old man justice.

So, what do you think? Any recommendations? Pointers etc?

Sorry for the long post, and thanks!

Amps don’t really wear out much – I’ve got an Arcam alpha amp that must be 20 years old+ and it’s still spot on, so if you want to cut your spend, you could look for a second hand amp. And obviously speaker stands don’t wear out either.

I’d also add a cheap CD player to the system so that you can listen to CDs. And get one of IKEA’s finest BESTA shelving units as a cheap hifi rack 😀

My only other comment would be to not spend £90 on speaker cables. Your connections between the components need to be adequately shielded (ie, not 50p eBay specials) but twin and earth is about as high a spec of speaker cable as you actually need.

Also, for that kind of money I’d be inclined to see if it’s viable to hear the set up at home. And make sure your wife isn’t going to insist on you “hiding” the speakers and cocking up the sound. The best thing I ever did to my hifi was play around getting the speaker positions right.

Without wanting to start another STW hifi argument. I would ditch the £90 speaker cable.

However the amp seems to be a very good deal. Also Arcam FMJ stuff always commands stupid money on Ebay, so if you want to change it in a few years you should get a fair chunk back.

I was always told to spend more on the source (the turntable or cd) than the amp, and about the same on the speakers as the amp. Crap in, crap out was the mantra. Not sure you need such a high spec amp.

That’s a decent amp for a very good price imo! FMJ stuff seems to command a decent s/h value too!

I’d put in another £100 for a bluetooth DAC so you can stream internet radio and sources like Spotify from your computer/phone for general day2day listening etc!

Confuse yourself more and start looking at Headphones.. theres something about immersing yourself in music that makes it sound totally different. Id also spend £100ish on some nice over ears

Amps don’t really wear out much – I’ve got an Arcam alpha amp that must be 20 years old+ and it’s still spot on, so if you want to cut your spend, you could look for a second hand amp.

On the other hand, my Castle Edens ate both a (then) modern Alpha 9 after six years, and an older ‘spare’ Alpha 3 shortly after. On the basis of that (especially the Alpha 9, which was over 600 quid), I’d struggle to recommend any Arcam gear of that era.

Yes, the Alpha 3 was underpowered for the speakers (and was only an interim in any case), but at 85W per channel, the Alpha 9 shouldn’t have struggled. My 65W Naim seems quite happy drowning out the neighbours with my dad’s LP collection

I’ve been into hifi of similar value and quality for over 25 years.

Agree with the above that £90 in speaker cable is silly.

Some standard 12awg speaker cable will suffice.

Arcam amps are nice – we have an alpha 6+ in the bedroom and it still sounds sweet.

For record decks, the support is more important than other components.

Make sure it is solid and not susceptible to heavy footsteps and it’ll be fine.

What about a rega front end? ( but not their carts which are a bit meh)

Hi-Fi is magnificent. But it’s subject to so many ifs, buts and maybes that you should go with the set-up you like with only one proviso: if it doesn’t sound any good at home (the room it’s in has a major impact on sound), then get the dealer to help you optimise it at home.

Most if all, if you’re happy to spend the money so that you get the pleasure if listening to all those great records, then that’s all that counts.

It is, after all, about the music and nothing else.

Enjoy and do report back once you’ve spent that first evening at hone with LPs strewn across the floor…. 🙂

Regardless of budget being mindful of room acoustics and speaker placement can make real differences – Hope you enjoy and maybe discover some new tracks 🙂

go to another shop.
one with a different range of products, im surprised the boston speakers came out the best at that price point, they seem to be discounted everywhere and an old model. i bet there are better stand mount offerings out there. they are not an easy load to drive either at 85 db/1w/1M

Try some twin and earth 2.5 mm solid core cable for your speakers.
Then try some cheaper stranded speaker cable before splashing out on the expensive stuff.
Richer sounds do some very good 79 strand type cable for not much cash.

They should sound a bit different to each other.
See which you prefer.
You can get cheap screw on plugs to test them if you can’t use bare wire.

£90 is a lot to spend on speaker cable.

What Cartridge doe the Project come with as standard fr0sty? Is it the Ortofon 2M Red?

If so, see if they will offer you a upgrade to the 2M Blue for free 😉

Mr Smith has a very good point.
Try to listen to loads of stuff if you can.

Arcam amps have a certain sound, for example.
Mission/Cyrus are, ime, almost at the complete opposite end of the spectrum – try somewhere that has both and see what you think.

What kind of floor is it going on?
The best upgrade I’ve ever made is granite chopping boards between the stands and the wooden floor – £30.00.

Trust your ears. Take the HiFi mag reviews with a huge pinch of salt.
If you like it, it’s good.

Zappa is a great choice for testing out gear, but try something really simple, like a classical guitar or solo violin piece.
If a violin doesn’t sound like a violin, change something.

When I put floorstander speakers on my budget system instead of bookshelf speakers on stands, it made a massive difference to the sound quality and detail – if you’re spending that kind of budget I’d consider floorstanders.

FWIW I think you can spend a whole lot less than that (<£1k) and still get a very impressive-sounding system.

IMO the more you spend, the more you expect perfection and end up feeling dissatisfied and constantly upgrading, whereas when you buy budget stuff you’re not so bothered, even tho its still sounds pretty good.

As mentioned above, speaker position and what you put them on can make a surprising difference. Following a previous thread on here I now have 5p pieces underneath the speaker spikes and moved the speakers and the sound is definitely more detailed

When I put floorstander speakers on my budget system instead of bookshelf speakers on stands, it made a massive difference to the sound quality and detail – if you’re spending that kind of budget I’d consider floorstanders

i would suggest not to go with floor standers at that price point, it’s easier to construct a smaller stiffer cabinet if there is not much budget available, floor standers may sound ‘bigger’ but a stand mount may image better. it is dependent on a lot of other factors though like room size/shape/construction or if you want to listen at low volume of shake the room and if the speakers are rear/front ported (or sealed box) and how far away from the wall your domestic situation will allow.

Thanks guys, lots of good points there.

@ tron. I’m steering clear of 2nd hand as I’d link the option of warranty, should the need arise. But good call.
@ csb & MrSmith. The reason for choosing this partic amp was based on sound alone. The price does sting a bit, but to me it sounded the best. I did try a cheaper Rega amp, circa £350, but wasn’t too impressed. The bass detail was totally gone for instance, and switching to the FMJ tightened everything right up and things became a lot clearer. The mids too we’re hugely boosted on the Rega.

I really should try and get to a different shop and test some more kit, but how am I to compare different kit to what I’ve already heard, when likely all of the variables will change. Hmmm.

@ ski. I think it is the red. I shall find out. What am I to expect switching between the two?

Lots of people seem to be suggesting the cables are a bit overboard. My logic was that going for a quality cable would rule out the cables being a limiting factor to the overall sound. They’re £15 per metre, so not ‘top end’. I’m not sure…

@ brooess. I did try some floor slanders but for the money (extra few hundred) I couldn’t hear the quality difference. There was limited stock in store at that price point though, so that was a factor.

Thanks again guys. Any specific product recommendations would be much appreciated. Links too are helpful 🙂

You might have much bigger room placement issues if you go for floorstanders, smaller standmounts are often easier to place and you can always supplement them with a decent sub if you need – integration might not be quite as good but it might be better than a floorstander that you can’t ‘tame’.

A good cheap cable is the Van Damme stuff, but the saving won’t be huge and often most of the cost is in the cable termination anyway, so you might as well stick with that Chord cable. And it will have more 2nd hand value if you want to sell it later.

The Rega turntable option might be a good call as I also think that will have a better 2nd hand value if you ever want to upgrade. That rule about spending more on your front end does still apply if you are going with a turntable, but it doesn’t apply so much if your front end is only CD.

Beware that the system may sound very different at home than it did in the shop – room acoustics are very important and have a big effect – room shape and furnishings. Ensure that you have some sort of cooling-off period or home demo.

A good tip with speaker positioning is to get two mates to list each speaker/stand and move them around in front of your listening position until they ‘snap-in’ to focus best. Also beware that your listening position can also have a lot of effect – move around a bit yourself to try different locations – especially bad if your head has a wall close behind – just like if the speakers have a wall right behind.

Don’t worry so much on the budget – if the system sounds good it is feasible that you will have it in its current form for a very long time – especially if you avoid listening to other peoples systems along the way. If you skimp you might just end up with stuff you are going to want to upgrade, and therefore lose money on.

Arcam FMJ A28 amp – £1100 down to £675

Could get 2nd hand Naim NAC 72/NAP 180 for around that – quality stuff that will hold it’s value pretty well.

Another vote for Van Damme speaker cable, have a look here for a decent price:

http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=46_21&zenid=ell51d9qqvn607t1nsdglpsos2

I used to spend a lot on speaker cable, but saw the light a couple of years ago and switched to some Van Damme.

Another vote for Van Damme speaker cable, have a look here for a decent price:

However I have heard (sometimes significant) differences in speaker cables with different solid state amplifiers – I think possibly more so with smaller speakers than larger speakers which might be more uniform loads.

For instance my Quad 306 sounded better/more controlled with 4mm stranded Quad speaker cable (compared to QED 79 strand), but when I changed speakers it sounded very ‘veiled’ and I had to change to some cheapish Nordost stuff. And my bigger Quad 707s also didn’t like the 4mm stuff, but are great with 2.5mm (and lower) stuff, so they like the 2.5mm Van Damme cable, but not the 4mm Van Damme stuff!

As the Chord cable isn’t that expensive and you know it works well then it might be worth sticking with that, especially if it looks aesthetically pleasing as the blue van damme doesn’t look that great!, although I think you can get it in black as well.

Twin-core mains doesn’t seem to work that great in my experience either, and I have tried it a couple of times.

The accepted wisdom for a vinyl system would be to spend a far greater proportion of the money on the TT and cartridge. No amount of amp is going to make a budget TT sound any better. I’d be thinking about a rega RP6 at 1000 or an RP3 at 500 + naim Nait 5i S/H for around 450 + your choice of speakers (Rega RS3’s maybe, Audio T have them for 600ish). Vandamme cables and 70 quid on a TT shelf job done.

I’d suggest that system would sound considerably better than the one you’ve outlined. Where in the country are you perhaps I can point you at some well regarded dealers.

Rega Planar 3, the best speakers you can afford, and a modest amplifier would be my choice. Everyone says spend less as you go down from the source, but my experience with some top end speakers says that they have a much greater influence on the signal than the amp – this from a Music Fidelity A1 amplifier owner 😉

And ditch the speaker cable and spend the money on a good shelf.

Yup + 1

+2
Producing a decent amp these days is, dare I say it, trivial. Decent speakers are still expensive to manufacture (and ship, which factors into the end price).

Speakers are horribly deprecating too, my 2k Audio physics are worth around 300 quid now. It’s entirely possble to get amazing speakers for bookshelf money so don’t rule out second hand gear from a dealer, where you will still have a 3month warranty.

Speakers are horribly deprecating too, my 2k Audio physics are worth around 300 quid now

unless you buy old LS3/5a…

Or Spendor BC1s, or SP1s, or Quad ESL57s.

My only other comment would be to not spend £90 on speaker cables.

On the other hand, £30 of cable made more difference to my £500 system than any other £30 I could have spent.

But here’s the most important piece of advice, to the OP:

If you enjoy listening to it, it’s fine, and absolutely nothing else matters. DO NOT read what hifi, do not get into hifi, it’s just not worth it. Buy that system and never ever shop again unless you become a lot richer suddenly.

Pick up some What Hifi mags and do some searching Richer Sounds is a good start
Your ears won’t regret it ! You’ll be amazed of how much detail your ears are missing even at your budget.
Enjoy

Pick up some What Hifi mags and do some searching Richer Sounds is a good start

Ignore What HiFi and richer sounds.
The mag does TV and iPod Dock reviews and very little in the way of HiFi, there’s plenty of other decent mags out there, Richer Sounds is the Planet-X of hifi retail, mostly selling old stock and the tat other retailers do not want or brands they have bought and ‘badge engineered’ products.
go to a proper hifi shop.

Joolsburger covers it.

Buy a second hand Linn LP12. Have it serviced. Keep for 20 years.

Buy a Naim pre power combo off ebay/sh from a dealer. Keep for 20 years.

Speakers – buy whats best at a proper hi fi dealer (Not dissing Richer Sounds but they’re the Evans of Hifi with the remainder of the budget.

Lots of cracking advice folks, so thanks again. I’m off to another store on Wednesday (not Richer!) for another demo session this time with different bits altogether. I’ll try the Rega TT as they’re a stockist, and a whole heap of other bits too.
Ill report back soon!

With HiFi I give similar advice as with bikes. Demo as much as you can. If you can’t hear a difference or if you don’t like the sound then don’t buy it.

Sound is very personal, I like a clean and tight sounding system. My dad likes a warm cuddly sound so we hate each other’s systems but love our own systems.

Use the magazines as a vague guide to create a shortlist but always listen to your own ears not the magazine reviews for the final decision.