Young children learn from playing too.
Some of you seem to have forgotten this.
Yes they go to school to get a grounding in the basics, but exploring the wider world (and that does not have to be abroad or cost loads of money) is as important so they have the chance to become a grounded indivdual who can make sense of the world and have an understanding of who they are is just as important.
Life is a game-play it.

monkeyfudger – Member
People have kids in schools across different counties?

Yep – next year due to my location i’ll have my eldest under one LEA and my other children under another. I already know their Easter 2015 holidays are going to be at different times 🙂

Young children learn from playing too.
Some of you seem to have forgotten this.
Yes they go to school to get a grounding in the basics, but exploring the wider world (and that does not have to be abroad or cost loads of money) is as important so they have the chance to become a grounded indivdual who can make sense of the world and have an understanding of who they are is just as important.
Life is a game-play it.

Kids are out of school for 165 days of the year.

Those complaining about holiday companies jacking up prices in school holidays, you do realise that the reality is actually the opposite, that they discount prices when there is less demand? The “jacked up” price is actually the real amount they need to charge to cover all their costs – they can provide discounted prices out of that period because they’ve already covered costs and it’s less expensive to keep open for extra weeks. The economics simply don’t work if they have discounted prices year round.

Kids are out of school for 165 days of the year.

..and only in school for 6.25 hours a day, of which 1.5 hours a day is “play time” for small kids – and that’s not including stuff like forest school, art, PE etc. which is more or less structured play.

For what difference it makes I speak as somebody with two small school age children, but not only that I also see inside the system as I do IT support at the school.

Can’t afford to fly abroad during the holiday season? Boo-hoo.
When I was young, all our family could afford (5 of us) was a 2 week camping holiday in France during the summer (Eurocamp – are they still going?).

Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

I think peterfile missed your point there.

When I was a kid we used to go to campsites in france too. Or occasionally a flight to spain or greece and once we saved up for a couple of years and went to America.

People need to live more to their means and stop thinking that because X family down the road went to somewhere they have to as well and stick it all on credit card.

I cringe at the money people spend on holidays when they can’t really afford them. But if people keep stretching themselves the prices will keep going up…

You could go on about it all day but unfortunately it’s just the way modern society is.

A friend has a couple of little boys and is going to take them travelling round the world for 12 months when they’re about 8-9yrs. I’ve not had the chance to ask him the legalities behind it. Definitely something I’d like to do myself, but maybe only for 3-6 months. Anyone had experience of this or know where one stands? Ta

There’s no way I’d take my 9yr old out of school for a year to go travelling round the world. While they would undoubtedly learn something, they’d learn a lot more in a school – both academically and socially. If you want them to benefit from exposure to a foreign culture you’d really need to spend a year or two in the same location, which would let them learn a foreign language and actually start to like the local food, but I suspect your friend’s plan is more likely to be flitting about from India to Bali to Vietnam (or wherever)…

Perhaps I’m being overly cynical, but this sounds more like your friend would like to travel the world, and is trying to find a way to justify it. Pretty irresponsible IMO – time to grow up and face the fact he’s a parent.

My Sis is a Headmistress and her Hubby is a Headmaster, her view & his is this..

They don’t allow thier kids (4off) out of school during school terms because they can’t do they same 😉

Young children learn from playing too.
Some of you seem to have forgotten this.
Yes they go to school to get a grounding in the basics, but exploring the wider world (and that does not have to be abroad or cost loads of money) is as important so they have the chance to become a grounded indivdual who can make sense of the world and have an understanding of who they are is just as important.
Life is a game-play it.

Young children learn loads from playing at school, too. School isn’t just sitting in a classroom doing exercises in a book.

and only in school for 6.25 hours a day, of which 1.5 hours a day is “play time” for small kids – and that’s not including stuff like forest school, art, PE etc. which is more or less structured play.

Exactly.

I wonder how many of the people who are taking their kids out of school in term time also have them in pre- and after-school childcare and in childcare during the school holidays as well?

People have kids in schools across different counties?

You might if you live on a county boundary.

For example, if you live on the Yorkshire/Lancashire boundary, you would send your intelligent kid to a Lancashire school and the dumb one to a Yorkshire school.

Increase my working time/load and I’ll want paying more.

I think you are choosing to not even consider there is another way to do things here (don’t mean to be harsh or cause offense but it’s the way I read your replies). I am happy to be wrong but I think it all needs to be looked at properly to see if there is a better system.

I am guessing you are a teacher then?

The argument has always been that teachers ‘earn’ their long summer break by all the prep they do after school hours. My thinking is to try and reduce those kind of hours so the end result is spreading out the hours.

Maybe it will cost more as more teachers, or particularly student teachers or teaching assistants that are not fully qualified teachers need to be recruited. I have never said that it wouldn’t cost more and quite frankly I am of of the opinion that spending money on education is never a waste of money and I would much rather it was spent there than just about anywhere else.

There could be financial savings in other areas as a result – less people on job seekers, less money on child care, less disruption to working parents so less hours lost, less strikes etc etc.

Likewise I am also not saying don’t give kids time off. They need it both for fun and to do other activities.

IMO the whole system needs looking at to see if there is a better way. Maybe there wont be but at the moment the only resistance I see from the working adult population is from teachers who don’t want to lose their nice long holidays. That may sound harsh but that is how it looks from the outside.

The argument has always been that teachers ‘earn’ their long summer break by all the prep they do after school hours. My thinking is to try and reduce those kind of hours so the end result is spreading out the hours.

Are you proposing that they do less proper teaching then? Because that’s the only way I can see that happening.

IMO the whole system needs looking at to see if there is a better way.

Maybe, but the premise that kids need to be allowed to take holidays during term time is the wrong place to start. Are you sure you’re not Michael Gove?

The argument has always been that teachers ‘earn’ their long summer break by all the prep they do after school hours. My thinking is to try and reduce those kind of hours so the end result is spreading out the hours.

But your idea would surely do exactly the opposite – you’d need to tailor lessons to each individual kid, after all you’ve got no way of knowing which child’s done which lesson…

I love all the lazy old “My kids learn more by two weeks in Tuscany than they will by two weeks in school” excuses.

To proove this you would need demonstrate what level they were at before the holiday, what the holiday was designed to achieve, how its learning activities fitted in with the national curriculum and what level they were at when they returned home. That’s what teachers have to do every term. If not, Mr Gove won’t pay them.

Also, why could they only have learned this by going on a holiday in term time? Are holidays outside term time somehow inferior in general educational experience?

But people are right – there is no reason for one long summer holiday, and I think a lot of teachers would be happier with more, shorter terms.

I think you are choosing to not even consider there is another way to do things here (don’t mean to be harsh or cause offense but it’s the way I read your replies).

I try new things all the time.

But, things generally need learning in sequence and certain activities need all the students to be at the same place at the same time. You seem to think we can get them started and then they’ll happily work through the middle of the topic on their own, before all coming together at the end for a nice neat end of topic conclusion. In reality, this just won’t work.

If we do some thing practical, it needs to be fit into a scheme of work with theory before. Afterwards, we’ll discuss what we learned. We also need the equipment for the practicals to be available at the right time, which would be impossible to manage with 24 kids working at their own pace.

I am happy to be wrong but I think it all needs to be looked at properly to see if there is a better system.

New things are tried all the time – it’s why school is now very different to how it was in the past. What makes you think you’ve come up with a workable alternative off the top of your head?

I love all the lazy old “My kids learn more by two weeks in Tuscany than they will by two weeks in school[b] somewhere poor people go[/b]” excuses.

Having grown up with a mother who was a teacher and a dad who was a farmer holiday time was hard to fit in, we still did learned loads and hopefully came out of it as more well rounded individuals. I also reckon I only had about 10 days off school.

Some of the skills your kids can learn if you choose to take them out of school and pretend they are ill is how to lie.
It’s not a sun tan it’s jaundice
I had a contagious disease and my folks had to take me to a villa somewhere
They eat Pasta and Pizza in Italy and I’d never heard or eaten them before

But people are right – there is no reason for one long summer holiday, and I think a lot of teachers would be happier with more, shorter terms.

Yep. We’ve just finished a ten week half-term and it nearly finished me.

Although, that’ll probably make summer holidays even more expensive and avoiding this seems to be a priority in the way we design our education system?

Holidays from a teacher’s perspective:

We’re taking our kids abroad for the first time in 2014, because we’ve never been able to afford it before.

We can’t go in the summer, because we still can’t afford that. October, Christmas, February and Easter an no good, because I always have work to do in those holidays.

So, we’re going in May half-term. We’ve been very limited in where we can go, because we’ve had to find flights that work around the exact holiday dates – no nipping out early on the Friday or starting late on the Monday back, or using flexitime or anything.

Perhaps I’m being overly cynical, but this sounds more like your friend would like to travel the world, and is trying to find a way to justify it. Pretty irresponsible IMO – time to grow up and face the fact he’s a parent.

Yeah, it’s a tricky one. I only know him and not his wife or kids, so can’t really gauge the big picture motives etc.

The other friend I mentioned in my post is now a teacher and she’s always been keen on kids exploring different cultures, even through a year out, to get a more holistic perspective. She also stipulated this would have to include teaching them the core curriculum throughout. Personally I think that’s a fantastic way to “educate” one’s children. Don’t think I’d do it for a year though, maybe 3-6 months on perhaps 2 occasions.

The other friend I mentioned in my post is now a teacher and she’s always been keen on kids exploring different cultures, even through a year out, to get a more holistic perspective. She also stipulated this would have to include teaching them the core curriculum throughout. Personally I think that’s a fantastic way to “educate” one’s children. Don’t think I’d do it for a year though, maybe 3-6 months on perhaps 2 occasions.

I’d say a full year including schooling in a foreign culture would be great for many (most?) kids. There’s no way I’d take my kids out of school for 3-6 months, though.

For example, if you live on the Yorkshire/Lancashire boundary, you would send your intelligent kid to a Lancashire school and the dumb one to a Yorkshire school.

So they could both be at the same level come school leaving age?

In the USA some schools are exploring the ways to get rid of the long summer break. It is one of the biggest problems as far as keeping lower ability and kids from poorer families engaged in education, so some are working to make it better. Good thing too – better than accepting how it always was.

Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

I wasn’t on a plane until I joined a certain aircraft-orientated branch of the Armed Forces. I was at the controls and did the take off that very first time in one tho! 😀

At least they would have their chips on opposite shoulders

Don’t think I even went on a plane until I was 11 or so…

21 here but making it up now

There’s no way I’d take my kids out of school for 3-6 months, though.

Why not 3-6 months?

I don’t have kids but when I’m at a resort in term time and I see kids of school age with their parents, I just think “chav scum.”

At least they would have their chips on opposite shoulders

😀

Mi mam and dad tuk me owt ov skool efery yere in turm tyme and itz not dun mi any rong. Ive got a mint job at the timber yard nere us sweping up all da duzt.
Karnt si wot da big ishu izzzz

It has to be said, it’s a bit of a f*** you to the teachers, too – they’re under immense pressure to help their students fulfil optimistic predictions, and taking them out of school for a week/two weeks/three to six months or a year is not going to help, no matter how much it helps develop them outside of the curriculum.

long summer holidays just cause problems for families with both parents working and no support

Something to consider before having kids perhaps?

Long summer holidays do cause problems for families through. Kids are out of school for ~13 weeks a year (which contain 6 days of bank holiday). So how does a working family cover 13 x 5 – 6 = 59 days of looking after the kids with only 30 days of leave (if they are lucky)?

I don’t think “don’t have kids” is a particulalry helpful answer to this. Particulalry in this modern age when the cost of living relative to wags is rising and people are encourced to have both parents work, both by the tax system and by society.

It makes having kids only available to the very wealthy or the jobless who claim benefits and don’t work if you take that attitude.

It must be only a minority that take their kids out of school; my parents did until I went to a prep school – so they were paying then :D. Any excuse for doing this is just an excuse…if a trip will be educational then they’ll benefit from it by having it in holiday term and get all the benefit from that lovely teaching too. Do parents that do this stop when their kids get to a certain age or is it OK until Uni time – if they make it 😉

Why not 3-6 months?

I assume you’re not planning on putting them in a school during that period, but some kind of haphazard home schooling? (And it will be haphazard: you’re planning on travelling and seeing a foreign country, do it properly and you might as well stay at home…) 3-6 months should be just about enough to make them have to repeat the year when they finally get home, and they’ll be stuck in a class with kids a year younger.

My sister’s a diplomat and spends 4 year blocks in different countries, her kids are learning loads about different cultures and different languages (they speak English, French and Italian fluently), but of course they’re in formal schooling with a stable home life (ignoring the moves every 4 years or so).

It makes having kids only available to the very wealthy or the jobless who claim benefits and don’t work if you take that attitude.

Or, people who make changes to their lifestyles in response to having kids?

Long summer holidays do cause problems for families through. Kids are out of school for ~13 weeks a year (which contain 6 days of bank holiday).

Cor, you’d think they’d tell you about that beforehand. 😛

Is this shit still going on! At least once a month we have this!
Basics, If you have kids at school then you shouldn’t be taking them on holiday during term time, if you do it’s your choice, if little Johnny misses a special school trip or lesson etc then its your fault, if you get fined its your fault! Suck it all up and get on with it.
As for the rest of you, enjoy the cheap holidays, but by having no kids you are missing out on a whole world of Lego making, biking, sports days and general proudness as they hopefully grow up into someone you can admire.
And then… the cheap holidays start again!

The majority of people at mine and my wifes work have school age childern, and resouorces at both have been cut to such an extent that covering the work load is a stretch when everyone is in. This has led to much tighter restrictions on the number of people who can be off at any one time. The contention for leave during school holidays is such that not everyone who wants can have it. Looking like we might have to take leave during term time and hence take child out of school if we want any possibility of a family holiday 😐 Yeh I know first world problem 🙄

The simple answer to this is that it’s all down to the parents.

Bad parents may not make the best decisions for their children and removing then from school is one single example. It may or may not be bad depending on the child, the length, time etc
Rules like this are an overreaction to try and address the actions of a minority and IMO completely over the top.

We’ve not taken our daughter out of school but I would have no problem doing so during the last week of any term, especially the last day where they do very little.

If I were to do that I’d just phone up to say she was sick.

Already done below.
POW!
Feel free to read this whilst repeatedly punching yourself in the face, seething with moral indignation.

There’s a strong risk that my daughter may come down with some terrible illness on the last day before Feb half term.
Always sought school’s permission in the past and it was always granted. Won’t be asking this year.

Are the schools legally able to enforce the fines?