Being pretty much confined to a windowless office all day, every day, and otherwise living in Britain and never seeing the sun, I would like to increase my intake of vitamin D.

Anything I should know about taking a supplement beyond the painfully cautious advice to be gleaned from the NHS website?

Any particular type? What dosage?

My wife seems to think they help with mood and energy. Cheap ones from the supermarket.

However you may not need them. No-one north of something like 45 degrees N (or something) gets any in the winter, because the UV isn’t strong enough to trigger the reaction even if you stand naked in full winter sun. In the UK we don’t get any for half the year IIRC.

Fortunately you store it (like most nutrients) and you can produce loads in the summer that should see you through.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/Time_for_more_vitamin_D

You hardly need any sun to generate enough during the summer, so I’d assume that someone who spends their spare time riding or doing outdoor stuff would be well placed to store enough for the winter. IANAD mind.

After I posted this, I came across this interesting article about it.

I am hoping it might boost my funk-y disposition, and people seem to report feeling less down and tired with an increase in vitamin D.

Any ideas as to how long such positive effects take to be felt?

My understanding is that you get enough over Summer to see you through winter. I take d3 anyway as I have MS and there may some sort of link so just take it on the off chance it helps. Can’t say I’ve noticed any change in mood or anything like that though.

store enough for the winter.

I don’t think it works like that. Don’t you just you use it or wee it out?

Apparently studies suggest somewhere between 20% and 50% of adults have low levels of Vit D. The joys of working in offices and never seeing the sun, as well as not eating enough oily fish.

Good overview of various points here:
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/health-claims-about-vitamin-D-examined.aspx

Also
NICE and Dept of Health

This piece, together with the one I posted above, seems to suggest that a supplement can be helpful regardless of time spent outside.

But it was GrahamS that got me thinking about it in this thread from yesterday.

EDIT: Ah! There he is now. ^^

Hello. I wondered if it might have been. 😀

I would normally ask the missus to comment but she only has a couple of days to prepare her presentation for her consultant interview so I best leave her alone 🙂

I do know that she sees a lot of people with low Vitamin D and is fairly keen that we take supplements ourselves, especially during winter.

On balance a good thing to take:

http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+D/

Does a normal vitimin provide enough Vit D, or do you need to take an additional dose?

You not better just eating more salad and the likes, balance out your diet better?

You not better just eating more salad and the likes, balance out your diet better?

Vitamin D is mainly found in fish oils and liver.

If you don’t eat those regularly then you won’t get enough from diet alone. Which is fine, if you get out in the sun regularly.

I think this is bit of grey area as I’ve not seen any proper advice based on vit d quantities in foods. I probably eat 7 or so eggs a week and maybe 2-3 portions of mackerel. I tried adding 20mcg of D3, but it seemed to increase urination. I’ve knocked that back now to 10mcg or if is a fish/egg day then not bother or a cod-liver oil capsule (5mcg)at the most. This seems to have got me back to normal.

Last winter with no additional vit D I seemed to be ill all the time. So far this winter, I’ve managed to (so far) avoid all the kiddie bugs and colds and have pretty much kept riding. Might be coincidence, but I’m half southeast asian by skin type so it sort of fits the current advice.

I’ve not seen any proper advice based on vit d quantities in foods.

I found this table on page 103 of the draft Vitamin D and Health Report from the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition:

Thanks Graham.

Ok so a 2 eggs day is 6.4mcg and a mackerel day is 7.1mcg based on my portion sizes. Makes sense then that only a small top-up may be needed, or nothing on a fish and egg day.

GrahamS – Member
You not better just eating more salad and the likes, balance out your diet better?
Vitamin D is mainly found in fish oils and liver.

If you don’t eat those regularly then you won’t get enough from diet alone. Which is fine, if you get out in the sun regularly.

Not just talking about Vitamin D though, I reckon if you feel you are having a vitamin deficiency, it’s unlikely to be down to one thing, so best to vary your diet accordingly rather than take specific supplements.

Yak: that makes sense to me, but IANADr and I honestly have no idea.

The draft report is 160 pages long, and much of what I have skim-read is about trying to set appropriate Dietary Reference Values (DRV) and Reference Nutrient Intake (RNI).

Difficult when the main source is sunlight and some people see more sun than others.

Anything that means I get to play outside and eat more eggs and kippers sounds good to me 😀

Agreed 🙂
Bikes, eggs and fish. All good with me.

I am hoping it might boost my funk-y disposition, and people seem to report feeling less down and tired with an increase in vitamin D.

Oh so Vit D has a psychological effect then.

As above you get plenty from the sun….although people selling Vit D would like you to think otherwise

Oh so Vit D has a psychological effect then.

This is what I have read, and people have reported. See, for example, molgrips’ post above.

Whether it actually does or not, I don’t know. Maybe I’ll report back in a month and share my experience. Because, goodness knows, the sun is unlikely to come out and undermine the observations.

You really need to do a random double blind trial….

I suggest we get STWers to randomly mail you tablets which you take each day and note the results. We can then compare notes afterwards….

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

Take with fatty food.

I started taking some on work days this winter , I do 12 hour shifts so basically dont go outside for 4 days on the trot apart from commuting which is obviously in the dark .
I have felt less tired since i started but to be honest it could be a few things that helped with that . Cant say if i noticed much about my mood but touch wood i have avoided the lurgy this winter despite having a 2 year old in nursery .
On 2 of my 4 days on i have scrambled egg with mackerel for lunch so I could be overloading on the stuff !

You hardly need any sun to generate enough during the summer, so I’d assume that someone who spends their spare time riding or doing outdoor stuff would be well placed to store enough for the winter. IANAD mind.

Nope, or at least not what I was told by a GP when I got tested. Your levels will drop over winter time unless you live somewhere sunny. I was tested in November and I’m on a prescription for 6months of vit d3 tabs, pretty high dose but taken once a week. You can overdose on vit d if you aren’t deficient so its worth getting tested rather than take a random dose. I was told by my GP that almost every test she has done for vit d levels in Scotland come back low.

I am hoping it might boost my funk-y disposition

I also suffer from this in the winter. Have just ordered one of those blue SAD lights. Been thinking about getting one for ages! Might be worth looking into.

As above you get plenty from the sun…

Not in Scotland.

I’m not a scientist, but don’t we have disproportionate levels of MS up here which has been linked to vitamin D deficiency. In addition because of our latitude we receive significantly less UVB sunlight compared to the rest of the UK

That’s the thing, it’s all very well saying you get plenty from the sun.

That is true – but only if you get to see the sun!

It’s not unusual in the bitter north for a winter week to consist of five days driving to and from work in the dark, followed by two days of staying indoors at various venues because it’s pishing down outside. Repeat for four months.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/465017-does-the-body-store-vitamin-d/

You do store it, like other fat-soluble vitamins, according to that link.

And yes, lots of people will be deficient, because lots of people spend too long inside. However we, as keen MTBers will be out for five hour rides every weekend in the summer and getting plenty of sun, thereby storing plenty for winter. Won’t we?

I have been taking all sort of vitamins since my bad cold last year including Vit D … not sure what it does to me to be honest.

PAUSE CONVERSATION

I should just like to point out that, at the bottom of the livestrong link provided by molgrips, above, there is an option to click on other articles ‘you might also like’.

One of these is entitled, ‘What are the causes of teenage pregnancy?’ 😀

UNPAUSE

You do store it, like other fat-soluble vitamins, according to that link.

But only for two months according to that article.

And presumably less than that if your body has to start using the stores because it isn’t getting enough from other sources?

I take cod liver oil for my crap knees, that has Vit D in it, not sure how much of the RDA but some nonetheless.

So is there a downside or a risk of to much ?

However we, as keen MTBers will be out for five hour rides every weekend in the summer and getting plenty of sun, thereby storing plenty for winter. Won’t we?

No, it would seem.

I got my blood tested a couple of months back as I suspected arthritis appearing.(42 yrs old)
Turns out I had a pretty low vitamin D level. I mountainbike most weekends, and most evenings last summer I was out on my allotment building sheds.
So to have such low levels was quite a surprise.
I was prescribed a course of high dose vitamin D which I’m on until the end of this month when I’ll be tested again.

Can’t say I’ve been feeling any different to be fair. I have boughts of depression quite often and that hasn’t changed this month sadly.

I was diagnosed with low Vit D levels last year and the Adcal D3 supplements I was prescribed transformed how I was feeling within about a month…..there was no doubt that it was my Vit D levels coming back to normal that gave me more get up and go, no weakness any more and just general deeiling of being back to normal. Alas they’ve now switched me on to a cheaper alternative which is supposed to be as good and is a swallow hole tablet as opposed to a chew it up one.
NB read the pack inserts, if you eat spinach or other veg in the spinach family, drink tea, or eat grains they all contain compounds that prevent the absorption of vitamin D3 so should be avoided for 2 hrs either side of taking the supplements…..so based on that, if you’re trying to get it from your diet you may be combining “healthy” foods that naturally stop or reduce its absorption ❗

Wife and I were part of a trial as part of IVF. It was a med diet with high levels of vit d and Epa/Dha (found in cod liver oil)

I’d felt not great for years always worse in winter. Tried sad lights etc not much use. Within a couple of months of the trial started feeling hugely better. Other odd thing was my decade old verrucas (think huge and painful to walk in soft soles) cleared up…..oh and we had a little boy!

I’m still taking 1000mg epa/dha and 25ug vit d. Was on a higher dose before. Diet wise I have 3 eggs every day but only one lot of oily fish a week. Also finding out I have a diary intolerance might have helped too.

Give it a try….

The missus pointed me to this article in the BMJ which has just been sent round all trainers and trainees in her region:

http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.b5664

Sadly it is behind a paywall, but you get the thrust from some points in the abstract and intro

Rickets in children and osteomalacia in adults are the classic manifestations of profound vitamin D deficiency. In recent years, however, non-musculoskeletal conditions—including cancer, metabolic syndrome, infectious and autoimmune disorders—have also been found to be associated with low vitamin D levels. The spectrum of these common disorders is of particular concern because observational studies have demonstrated that vitamin D insufficiency is widespread in many northern regions of the world, including industrialised countries. The increasing prevalence of disorders linked to vitamin D deficiency is reflected in the several hundred children with rickets treated each year in the UK. However, these children represent a small proportion of the individuals with a suboptimal vitamin D status in the UK population.

A recent nationwide survey in the United Kingdom showed that more than 50% of the adult population have insufficient levels of vitamin D and that 16% have severe deficiency during winter and spring. The survey also demonstrated a gradient of prevalence across the UK, with highest rates in Scotland, northern England, and Northern Ireland.

I read this book and bought a copy for several people. The advice it gives is all based on trials data rather than the authors opinions, apart from in two areas where trials would be unethical.

It is firmly for vit D supplements and points out that Canada has an RDA that is 3 times ours, and is probably more correct.

I recommend reading that book, it is firmly in the ‘sensible’ category – sort of like the bad science book.

Canada has an RDA that is 3 times ours, and is probably more correct.

Yeah the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition report I posted earlier focuses on trying to establish a new RDA.

The issue seems to be that it is really hard to give any kind of dietary or supplement RDA because so much Vitamin D comes from sunlight (the BMJ paper says “>90% of humankind’s vitamin D supply is derived from ultraviolet B light”) which means the dietary/supplement RDA for someone working in a windowless office is very different to someone who works outdoors.

So really you need your individual Vit D status tested (using “an assay of serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OHD)” apparently).

Or just take an educated guess based on how much sunlight you get.

I recommend reading that book, it is firmly in the ‘sensible’ category – sort of like the bad science book.

Added to my basket on Amazon….