…hard power…

😆

deadlydarcy – Member

😯 … that is a black man!

See! Stereotyping people again …

there was some UK military consultant type chappy on LBC earlier discussing the situation and how the Turks really are on the side of IS, and when discussing the different groups in Syria he described one lot as ‘moderate, Guardian-reading, types’.

Well, I’ll leave on one last point. If we had more War Studies graduates from KCL and less art historians – we’d be living in a safer world.

The field of study in relation to conflict, it’s causes and the geopolitical strategies that various powers use to gain an upper hand – is a poorly understood field at best and at worst, one that is marginalized by the attitudes such as those displayed here.

So yes, have fun on your smug liberal high horses whilst the rest of the world continues to blow itself to hell – as normal.

Tom_W1987 – Moron

It’s a complete myth that current ICBM’s can target carrier groups. Even then, you have to know where the group is and even with satellites that’s hard. See crashed airliners for example.

The oceans a farking big place, carriers move and the destroyers that protect them can shoot your nice spy satellite down.

Took me less than 60s to currently locate five us carrier groups using google, i would suspect Russia has something better to do that!

Its my view Turkey has done more to support IS than any other state. As I posted I think Russia will make use of this at home and diplomatically.

There isnt going to be a US / Russian war stemming from this, neither country remotely cares enough. The Russians will do nothing to allow Turkey to invoke NATO. I do think Turkey needs to take care with any missions over Syria where they are violating Syrian airspace and the Russians are more than capable of shooting them down

The iodiocy of Turkey’s actions where starkly shown tonight, Russian planes over a tiny piece of Turkey for 17 seconds and shot down over Syria. Trigger happy madness

Took me less than 60s to currently locate five us carrier groups using google, i would suspect Russia has something better to do that!

Do you honestly think they actually give the exact position? But of course, during peacetime, routine patrol routes are going to be known because civilians and the crews families are updated with their rough whereabouts and planned route.

So congratulations, you’ve managed to locate a US aircraft carriers rough location, during peacetime for a surprise attack using nukes. Well done, you’ve now started WW3 even if those nukes miss or one get’s through the battle groups defensive screen. Good luck getting past the myriad of subs, helicopters, destroyers, anti-aircraft missiles, BMD missiles that can hit satellites and finally CIWS with anything else other than massive ballistic missile spam.

But yes, let’s all go on dreaming that Russia is totally going to stick it up to the imperial pig dog America.

Shouldn’t you lot be down the shops buying all the baked beans and bottled water, that you can fit in your 4X4s

buying all the baked beans

Haricot beans stewed in tomato jam? I think not.

Russian marine shot in rescue mission

Hmmm,seems to be getting a bit tetchy over there now.

I’d trust the judgement of these guys, there are ‘on the ground’ :

The Russians didn’t loose to a technically superior enemy 70 years ago

the technical superiority of the enemy didn’t extend to cold weather gear, the lack of which had a very significant effect on the outcome.

I can find my car using google earth but it isn’t there now and in fact hasn’t been there for years.
From recollection I disagree a lot with Tom’s opinions and politics but his factual analysis seems well informed.
The Russian’s beat the Germans because they had better kit and bigger numbers . German technical superiority was very much theoretical the vast majority of their supply and main units were horse drawn their tanks though well designed were unreliable and few in number they were also slow to build . like Napoleon Germany also failed to appreciate the scale on the undertaking or the severity of winter.
The American army is vast and equipped with quality functioning kit. Unlike 1930s Germany the USA is a very big country with significant resources.
Any way despite my strong dislike of Putin he plays geopolitics with skill (but no ethics) I doubt he will slide into war with a NATO power over this but he will use the incident to wrestle a lot of room to manoeuvre in Syria.

Any way despite my strong dislike of Putin he plays geopolitics with skill (but no ethics)

The no ethics thing is really his trump card. Russia is in a position where its acceptable to carpet and cluster bomb.

Russia reminds me Israel in certain ways where state aggression is used to off balance strategic opponents.

The skill is less statesmanship, more violent unpredictability.

piemonster – Member

Any way despite my strong dislike of Putin he plays geopolitics with skill (but no ethics)

The no ethics thing is really his trump card. Russia is in a position where its acceptable to carpet and cluster bomb.[/quote]

Just like the Merican carpet bombing the Viet Cong short of nuking the place … bloody peasants trying to wage war. 😛

Japan on the other hand got nuked though. They would have nuked Germany had they developed the weapon then …

Ethics or not winner(s) makes the rules.

The question now is whether the arms race will continue to increase considering that Merica is coming out with laser weapon … Can the Chinese invent UFO to leapfrog decades of peasants weaponry?

The no ethics thing is really his trump card

You think our foreign policy has ethics?

Its the same as his self interest and expediency

I suppose our violence is predictable – are you our poodle? Yes = safe No = the enemy of freedom

Its not like Saudi is a democracy we admire now is it.

IMHO we really should not be surprised not judge Russia for doing what we do – protecting our interests abroad. Like us he has no morals either and he wats a Russian friendly Syria at almisr any cost

Like us he has no morals either and he wats a Russian friendly Syria at almisr any cost

This is the crux of it. Russia has far more to lose in Syria than any other outsider. It’s their strongest foothold in the region and Assad is a decent customer which is the exact reason that the west wants Assad gone. America and the rest expecting them to only go after Daesh and not the FSA etc is fanciful at best.
I’d go out on a limb and say that the FSA gaining control of Syria would be an unmitigated disaster and would end up just like Iraq.
As someone said earlier, we should just leave the russians to it.

You think our foreign policy has ethics?

Yes. The sort of ethics that means we generally accept extra judicial assassinations so long as they’re relatively quiet.

Interesting that Russian aircraft can so easily be shot down.

Fighter-bomber shot down at what seems like close-ish range for missiles. 80s tech versus modern tech innit

Interesting that Russian aircraft can so easily be shot down.

What do you call “easily” ?

Most belligerents in the conflict don’t have the capabilities to easily shoot down Russian aircraft. However presumably if you have at your disposal a fully armed NATO F-16 which fires air to air missiles, and use this capability unexpectedly and without warning, it becomes significant easier.

Particularly when the russians were not expecting air threats.

Now the Russians are parking S-400’s in Syria, so no more bombing of Kurds by Turkey….

That didn’t end well for Turkish interests did it, all for a 10 odd second violation of their airspace.

The Syrians have remade Spinal Tap?

Has Turkey bombed Syrian Kurds? I know they fired some shells at Tal Abyad a few weeks ago but I thought their bombing of PKK was only in Iraq (and Turkey)

Interesting that Russian aircraft can so easily be shot down.

ZOMG!!! Do you think it was a false flag?! I noticed they originally said both pilots had been killed then SUDDENLY they’re both ok…makes you think…

“Now navigator safe, #Russia exacting revenge on Turkmen in #Syria for dead pilot & marine. Begun intensive shelling of Bay?rbucak mountain.”

surprise…

Soon to be Bay?rbucak plains…….

The Syrians have remade Spinal Tap?

More like Aphrodites Child going by the presence of a young Demis Roussos on the right there

I thought he looks like Adam Jones slimmer brother.

Looks like he’s ????? been to the Matt Le Blanc school of acting

ninfan – Member

More like Aphrodites Child going by the presence of a young Demis Roussos on the right there

Posted 45 minutes ago #

Dear God! I thought I was the only person in the world who actually owned that…A prog concept album on the Apocalypse?

What Tom said (and I posted up yesterday) – the Turks have been exclusively bombing the Kurds (Syrian Kurds are PKK as far as they are concerned) Russian bombers will have fighter escorts now and the ground to air missiles will keep the Turks away. I would expect the Turkmen to get a very solid beating inc from Russian special forces, knock out water and electricity and force mass refugee flood to Turkey ?

As posted above a fighter with air to air missiles can easily shoot down a ground atack bomber flying along in a straightline not expecting to be shot at. There where teo Russian bombers they shot down one

So Russia are getting sucked further into the conflict, more personnel and equipment
Increasing the financial and political cost

Now the wealthier Russians have even less places to go for their winter breaks, might be a boost to the Greek tourist economy tho,

The Russian pilot says there were no warnings. Obviously the truth is either:

a) exactly that
b) the Kremlin is making excuses before they unleash the Black Sea fleet (no matter how dishevelled it is)

One of those[ i doubt either side is being completely honest] they probably encroached they probably warned them[ not as many as they claim] and have wanted them previously and they decided to draw a line in the sand via shooting them down

Or they warned in Turkish, or on an alternative frequency, or both.

Or the hot-shit pilot thought that there was nothing anyone could do about it anyway? Or the Turks wanted to give the russians some shit for bombing their mates? Neither would remotely surprise me.