I went off Switzerland when women started to get the vote in 1959. Political correctness gone mad!
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Swiss vote on banning Muslim minarets.
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Posted 2 years ago #
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what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere"
Maybe it should be more along the lines of if you want to live in the UK don't automatically expect to live exactly how you want regardless of prevailing UK customs. The flip side being for UK residents, try and be tolerant of new cultures coming in, if they are not in direct conflict with our existing culture then maybe it will make our joint cultures richer.
Personally I'm very anti organised religion but it has given us some fantastic building both here and abroad which I'd be loathe to lose. Mianrets in the Cotswolds may not be appropriate, middle of Manchester maight be.
Northwind
I agree with you(Edit I agree that the Beth Din should be treated the same way as Shirea courts), IMO I think the Beth Din should be banned. There should not be alternative courts, especially officialy sanctionned ones. I just don't think the majority of people of aware of the existance of the Jewish courts. Certainly some of their law (divorce for example) seems to be fundamentally at odds with our secular law.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I live in Lausanne in French-speaking Switzerland and it's one of the most cosmopolitan places I've ever been to. I love it. Coming from Portsmouth in the UK which, despite being a port, I found to be fairly racist and intolerant; it's a real breath of fresh air.
Everyone I work with (a fair number of whom are Swiss citizens) are horrified at the vote and what it might mean for Switzerland's standing on the world stage. It's definitely a country of two halves though, unfortunately, and the Swiss-German majority of the population have a fairly intolerant and racist component.
Hmm..maybe they should all move to Portsmouth!
Posted 2 years ago # -
What, and have Portsmouth blighted by clock factories, banks and silos full of muesli. What next, making our beloved chocolate oranges triangular!!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm very worried by this thread.
I mean, where is TJ? Really? This is serious. Surely there must be something wrong, he's not been here to post at all.
Posted 2 years ago # -
what happened to "this is the UK, if you want to live here, live by our laws, if you dont like them, take your sharia ass elsewhere"
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or am i a racist bigot?Yes you are, so F@*k you and your white ass law!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Just sticking my oar in for a moment, I don't think it's racist, as we're talking religion or faith; one's ethnicity has nothing to do with it. There are plenty of Arab Christians, Yussuf Islam was born Cathos Stephanopolos, befor changing to Cat Stevens, then adopting Islam. Why do people insist on using race as a stick to beat people with?
Posted 2 years ago # -
OK, its plain old fashioned bigotry! The choice of minarets seems slightly cowardly too as I suspect that it is being used as a cover for peoples prejudices. Unless their specific grip is with the architectural aspects!
If they have a problem with a particular group of people they should say what that problem is, even if it shows them for what they are...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Dissing Islam isn't racist, it's anti-Islamic (just like dissing Jews is anti-semitic).
I have no issue with the Islam faith (or any other religion for that matter), just the extreme believers/followers of it who are so narrow minded as to want to impose their beliefs on everyone or destroy non-believers. Fortunately, those people are in the minority, but unfortunately give other (moderate) muslims a bad name.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hiya CFH.
I can't be arsed with this one. Trying to keep off the contentious subjects and have we not done this one to death? Its a fine line between xenophobia, bigotry and racism. I find the continual demonisation of Islam irritating. Religious fundamentalists are dangerous no matter the creed. Jewish, Christian or Islamic. Dunno about Buddist fundamentalists tho - not seen much in the news
Small minded people getting their knickers in a twist over a storm in a teacup.
Will that do? got any more clichés for me?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I love Islamic art and architecture, but if that minaret grumm posted is anything to go by I'm not surprised they want to ban them, that's hideous!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Stumpyjon wrote, "I agree with you(Edit I agree that the Beth Din should be treated the same way as Shirea courts), IMO I think the Beth Din should be banned. There should not be alternative courts, especially officialy sanctionned ones."
How about ACAS or other arbitration services? The General Medical Council? That's really all the Beth Din are, a voluntary and optional court operating within UK law. The same is true of UK islamic courts.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Out of interest, how is the construction of mosques in the UK funded?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Out of interest, how is the construction of mosques in the UK funded?
They are funded by muslims themsleves. Weekly collections and donations from the local muslim community.
Taxpayers, do not worry, your pay packets are safe and muslims dont need your money.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Can't be arsed to read the thread, but Thatcher dun it ....
Posted 2 years ago # -
got any more clichés for me?
Thanks TJ
Posted 2 years ago # -
They are funded by muslims themsleves. Weekly collections and donations from the local muslim community.
That, or Saudi funded Wahhabis bent on spreading their extremism
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah, that's the case for the big mosque in Edinburgh town centre (which is lovely, btw, welcomes visitors and has a really good kitchen, great curries), they always say it was built by charitable donation which is true, but don't mention that 9/10ths of the money came from the king of saudi
Posted 2 years ago # -
Being Swiss, although not actually living in Switzerland, I would like to point out that the Swiss people are in general not really racist and do not object to anyone practicing their religion. However, we do like our peace and quiet and what I think made most people support this law is the constant prayer chanting. I mean, I love Istanbul, have been there many times but after a few days the chanting looses it's novelty factor and just gets plain annoying...
I heard that the problem was not the minarets as such but their locations in the town centres...Posted 2 years ago # -
Out of curiosity, is there anything stopping them from building a minaret-less mosque and still chanting? If that was the problem, seems like the law's missed it... Adhan's not required to be broadcast, that's probably a pretty uncommon practice in the west.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Dissing Islam isn't racist, it's anti-Islamic (just like dissing Jews is anti-semitic
Jews are recognised as a race not a religion as are Sikhs under UK race laws.
To confuse you some more the arabs muslims + others are also members of the semitic race. Anti- semitic should not be used as anti- jewish /Zionist it does not mean JEW- it was popularised as this by Nazis dont repeat their lie.Posted 2 years ago # -
Like Jim Jefferies says "I hate it when people call me racist. I'm not a racist, I'm a bigot"
Buuuuut I think it's fair to say that being anti-islamic and being anti-arab are quite closely linked, even though not all arabs are moslem and most moslems aren't arabs (IIRC)
Posted 2 years ago # -
I would sadly find I I must disagree with AvalancheQueen. But I have a good friend who is Swiss and now living in Birmingham because of the attitude of a significant number of especially elderly Swiss people to her. Although a Swiss native with a few degrees and many Swiss friends, most of her extended family were Romany Gypsies murdered by the Nazis in that war with the survivors finding their way to re-establish their lives in Switzerland unable to return to the east because of the Russians. She constantly found doors deliberately closed in her face, often to hurt her and shops closing just as she was going to use them, Edelweiss is white and that's the way a nasty number of Swiss people want it to stay.
I read somewhere recently ( OK CFH it probably was the Grauniad) most minarets would not have got through existing planning controls in force in most Cantons and the fact there are only 4 proves that all this was was racist bigots having a pop at the muslims in a manner that mail and express only dream about getting such an opportunity
Posted 2 years ago # -
TandemJeremy: Dunno about Buddist fundamentalists tho - not seen much in the news
There are some Buddhist "fundamentalists" but they got wack on the head to death while chatting in protest or they walk peacefully to protest only to be used as shooting targets. Even in some part of the world the giant Buddhas - "icon" (they have no idea of the meaning of icon but assume Buddha statues are all icons) were not spared and got to be bombed by some god fearing people.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Can't see the problem with any particular sort of architecture really.
Burkas however is another matter.
But really, I'm hoping that one day I'll live in a country where religious people (of any faith) will be a minority.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I heard that the problem was not the minarets as such but their locations in the town centres...
In which case they'll be rejected on an application-by-application basis - no need to the constitutional amendment.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Have they banned church steeples there as well?
Surely they both serve the same purpose - to reach up high to the glory of their god and have a good vantage point for calling their brethren to prayer via Imman or bells?
To just ban one type of tall building of one religion is clearly discriminatory IMHO- I can see two minarets from my office FWIW.Posted 2 years ago # -
Not that keen on any religion, especially dont like muslimism because they keep trying to kill me. Get rid of it sooner rather than later.
Save our kids doing the job, we dare not.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Starseven - are you actually claiming muslims keep trying to kill you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Starseven - are you actually claiming muslims keep trying to kill you?
Sounds reasonable enough, especially if he forgot his tin-foil helmet liner.
I stay one step ahead by watching TV with the lights out, behind the sofa. That way they can't monitor me from inside the screen.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There are jobs which involve having angry muslims try to kill you, you know. But the use of the word "muslimism" does mark him out doesn't it. Either ignorance or a total lack of respect.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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