Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)
  • Swapping wheels on a car
  • aracer
    Free Member

    Looking at buying a s/h Mondeo. Quite a few for sale (including one I’ve just found which looks really nice) have 18″ alloy wheels. Now personally I’m not all that excited by the bling look, and would prefer smaller wheels and higher profile tyres – I’ll happily take whatever minor difference that makes to the handling in exchange for a better ride, cheaper replacement tyres and less chance of damaging the tyres/wheels. Was thinking I might be able to buy a replacement set of smaller steel wheels, flog the 18″ alloy ones on ebay, and maybe even come out ahead financially. Just wondering if anybody has done this, whether it is actually a good idea and what drawbacks I’m missing. Would there be any real advantage in buying replacement smaller alloys rather than just steel ones? FWIW I tend to keep my cars long enough that the difference in resale is unlikely to bother me.

    bigyinn
    Free Member

    As long as you get wheels with the same BCD, bolt pattern and offset you should be fine.

    kcal
    Full Member

    check insurance policy – they may require to be informed of any modifications – although possibly the 18″ alloys weren’t original either..

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    trail_rat
    Free Member

    and its not a special model mondeo with big brakes needing the wheels to be big enough to fit over – ie ST …..

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “check insurance policy – they may require to be informed of any modifications “

    at which the insurance company will probably go – yep thank you very much for telling us but we really dont care.

    kcal
    Full Member

    sure trail_rat – completely agree. of course if there was any incident, and they realised the wheels were in some way different, there’d be all hell to pay – and the insurance co. wouldn’t cough up 🙂

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    and the insurance co. wouldn’t cough up

    Surely they could only ask for the difference in premiums, which would be nothing.

    porter_jamie
    Full Member

    sounds like the 18″ ones might be an option, so if you fitted the 17″ or 16″ ones as long as they are original ford ones, no-one would know. Check the tyre label, if it has optional sizes then you know you are ok, and also which sizes to fit

    porter_jamie
    Full Member

    ps, i can find out what the orignal sizes were from the reg/vin if you want to email it to me

    ThePinkster
    Full Member

    Might be worth checking that tyres of the correct size (i.e. tyre wall height) are easily available.

    similar but not correct sized tyres can result in incorrect speed & mileage readings on the clock.

    bails
    Full Member

    and the insurance co. wouldn’t cough up

    Surely they could only ask for the difference in premiums, which would be nothing.
    Yeah right! “Sorry Mr Smith, but you modified your car without telling us so your insurance was void at the time of the accident. but if you pay us the £20 difference in premium then we’ll happily pay for the £15,000 of damage you caused”

    As for the OP: I got some steel wheels from a scrapyard for £15 each for a mk2 focus. They’re the same as the mondeo ones from the same era, should be easy to get hold of. I’ve put winter tyres on them and swap them for my ‘summer’ alloys. You just need to get the right wheels (e.g. from the same age/make/model car, but a lower specced model) and some steel specific nuts.

    bruneep
    Full Member

    at which the insurance company will probably go – yep thank you very much for telling us but we really dont care.

    Put winter tyres with steel wheels on wife’s car, Insurance co wanted extra as it was a modification to the standard spec of the car. I argued that it would make the car safer to drive in winter reducing the chances of a claim, so I would require a reduction in the premium.
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    I paid the £30 by switch.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    Put winter tyres with steel wheels on wife’s car, Insurance co wanted extra as it was a modification to the standard spec of the car.

    normally the handbook will tell you you which size winter tyres would be accxeptable

    bruneep
    Full Member

    Think the main issue was with the steel wheels, as I had taken the alloys off. Also it is an opportunity to screw the customer for more money.

    Marge
    Free Member

    standard 18″ size for a Mondeo is 235/40R18
    (very hard ride)

    coming down to 16 it’s 215/55R16 or 17″ it’s 235/45R17

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    My Mk4 Mondeo has ‘small’ 16″ steel wheels (NB. the offset may be slightly different to the Focus wheels). The brakes on the Mk4 are all the same size, I think.

    Ride, bump absorption, feel and the tyres staying in good contact with the tarmac on a ‘brisk’ drive along real roads are more important to me than having massive rims and rubber band tyres that ‘look fast’ or having overly-firm ‘sports’ suspension.

    bearGrease
    Full Member

    @bails – I have some winter tyres on steel rims coming, should I get some extra “steel specific nuts” rather than use the ones off my alloys?

    TIA

    ir_bandito
    Free Member

    Yep, you need different nuts for steel wheels. Nuts for alloys usually have integrated washer.

    As for telling insurance company about winter tyres, balls to them. Do you tell them when you replace non-winter tyres with non-OEM ones?

    Also, Ford do some nice-ish looking 5-spoke 16″ steel wheels. As they’re Ford own brand, you can claim they’re OEM kit so not a mod 🙂

    deadlydarcy
    Free Member

    I’d still be telling my insurance company all the same. Who cares if they tell you they don’t care. At least it’ll be on record that you told them.

    Don’t blame you though…looking on e-tyres:

    the 18s from Marge’s post above are £160 and above for “branded” tyre. 😯

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    These will also connect your tyres to the car adequately:

    aracer
    Free Member

    Thanks for all the help – so nobody telling me not to do it then? Sounds like a plan – and those “steels” pictured above by ir_bandito actually look quite nice (in reality I’d probably not want to spend extra to get those rather than cheap ones from a scrappy – though I suppose they’d be a good bet if I was bothered about resale). Oh, and ta for the tip about telling my insurance company – something I might not have thought about.

    I’m looking at fairly standard Mondeos, I think the 18″ wheels might be standard for some higher specs given how they all seem to have them – though you can get the same engine and drivetrain with smaller wheels. I’m assuming they don’t fit uprated brakes on ones which aren’t sold as sports models.

    Ride, bump absorption, feel and the tyres staying in good contact with the tarmac on a ‘brisk’ drive along real roads are more important to me than having massive rims and rubber band tyres that ‘look fast’ or having overly-firm ‘sports’ suspension.

    standard 18″ size for a Mondeo is 235/40R18
    (very hard ride)

    Exactly, and indeed – my current car which is much the same size only has 15″ wheels with 65 profile tyres – would go for those if they were a standard fit, but it seems 16″ is the smallest (and I don’t really want to mess around going out of spec). Thanks for the info.

    andyl
    Free Member

    bruneep – Member
    at which the insurance company will probably go – yep thank you very much for telling us but we really dont care.
    Put winter tyres with steel wheels on wife’s car, Insurance co wanted extra as it was a modification to the standard spec of the car. I argued that it would make the car safer to drive in winter reducing the chances of a claim, so I would require a reduction in the premium.
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    I paid the £30 by switch

    I am sure the insurance ombudsman looked into this and deemed it wrong for them to do as long as you are sticking to the manufacturers recommended tyre size. One way round it is fit some all weather tyres. Not all season but all weather – ie tyres that are M&S rated but also fine to use all year round. My Nokian WRG2 are such a tyre and can be used all year round. They are discontinued now but very good tyres.

    The 5 spoke steelies above are also on Vauxhalls.

    One problem you will find is it is a common modification now for people to replace heavy alloy wheels with steel ones as they are lighter and they normally leave the hubcaps off for the aesthetics of dark wheels etc. This means it is not seen a modification and is associated to certain high risk types.

    Also any chance to get more money out of you and they will take it.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Incidentally all wheels across the Mk3 mondeo are compatible- even the ST only has the 300mm rotors, surprisingly.

    My insurers were totally unfussed last time, because I was replacing ford alloys with ford alloys. And on the new car, they’re unfussed because I’m “downgrading” theft-wise from ford alloys to ford steels.

    The winter tyres thing is a bit morecomplicated. There’s competing wisdom, and circumstances vary. If you get caught out driving home by heavy snow, it’ll improve your odds greatly. But if you decide to drive to work because you have winter tyres, when otherwise you’d have taken the bus…

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    people to replace heavy alloy wheels with steel ones as they are lighter

    Eh? Um… Ok. Steel vs alloy. This is a bike forum. I had assumed some basic understanding of materials such as these, but maybe not…

    tthew
    Full Member

    The alloy material isn’t as tough, and are cast in thick sections to compensate. Steel wheels are pressed out of nice thin sheets.

    Those 5 spoke steels are made like that so you can put trims over them without seeing the wheel behind, so they look like Alloys but on lower spec models.

    ir_bandito
    Free Member

    The alloy material isn’t as tough, and are cast in thick sections to compensate. Steel wheels are pressed out of nice thin sheets.

    I hope you’re trolling…

    PS I’ve got a set of the 5-spoke steel wheels with my winter tyres on. £80 off ebay for the set. I know I could have got plain steel wheels for less, but not a lot. And they do look (relatively) good. My 3-yr old nephew described them as “racing car wheels”

    Northwind
    Full Member

    If you go down a size at the same time as swapping wheels, then the big tyre + small wheel combo can be lighter than the big wheel + low profile tyre combo. Especially if you’re replacing cheap rubbish alloys- they can be pretty hefty.

    But mainly it seems to be a daft anti-fashion thing, used to be maxxers all wanted big wheels, now their dad’s repmobile has 18s so they want little steels again. Maxxer mods are never driven by performance ya know.

    v8ninety
    Full Member

    Right. For the record, alloy wheels: lighter than steel wheels. Otherwise alloy wheels pretty much pointless. Glad to clear that up.

    aracer
    Free Member

    But mainly it seems to be a daft anti-fashion thing

    Ah – so I’d be all trendy swapping the big alloys for small steels? 😉

    globalti
    Free Member

    Like walking around with your jeans halfway down your arse then?

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    Right. For the record, alloy wheels: lighter than steel wheels. Otherwise alloy wheels pretty much pointless. Glad to clear that up.

    You might want to check your facts.

    Magnesium racing ‘alloys’ are light. Road cars are not fitted with these.

    Pick up a 16″ steel rim and a large ‘alloy’ rim. Feel the difference in weight.

    Large alloy wheels are fitted to daily-driven road cars for vanity reasons, other than that they are pointless.

    leffeboy
    Full Member

    Also, you may not even need to change the bolts. The bolts on my Peugeot can be used with either steel or alloys. (I checked with my garage). I’m guessing this is because the spare wheel ( remember them?) is steel

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Aristotle – Member

    Pick up a 16″ steel rim and a large ‘alloy’ rim. Feel the difference in weight.

    Are you comparing a 16 steel with a larger alloy? That doesn’t make any sense if so.

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    I’ve no figures to hand, but from experience OEM aluminium alloy road wheels aren’t light as they need to be robust enough to resist being used on roads. Steel is more resilient.

    ‘Alloy’ rims are not fitted because they are lighter (or give better road performance). They are now ‘expected’ by the buying public.

    Larger ‘alloy’ rims(very heavy) with very low profile tyres (very little cushioning for the wheel rim) are generally fitted for appearance and the ‘image’ of sportiness (along with over-firm suspension).

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Yes, of course. But when you’re saying alu wheels are heavier than steel, are you comparing like with like or not?

    falkirk-mark
    Full Member

    Dunno if anyone has mentioned you also need to check your caliper and disc is small enough to accept a smaller wheel.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    The Factory fitted 15″ alloys on my Mk1 Golf weigh 13.2 kg

    The VW OEM Steels I used in winter weigh 15.5 kg

    Both with the same brand and size of tyre.

    I would have thought that’s pretty representative of most like for like size wise comparisons.

    (These are standard factory alloys. Some alloys will be the ultralight type, obviously creating a bigger weight gap)

    Aristotle
    Free Member

    Northwind – Member

    Yes, of course. But when you’re saying alu wheels are heavier than steel, are you comparing like with like or not?

    As I say, I’ve no figures to hand, but from experience, OEM cast ‘alloy’ wheels feel heavier than steel wheels of the same size. I’m talking normal cars rather than exotica.

    The bigger the wheels/lower the profile tyres, the more beefy the alloy wheels would need to be for a high mileage road application.

    nealglover
    Free Member

    As I say, I’ve no figures to hand, but from experience, OEM cast ‘alloy’ wheels feel heavier than steel wheels of the same size. I’m talking normal cars rather than exotica.

    For figures, and personal experience. See above.

    andyl
    Free Member

    v8ninety

    Eh? Um… Ok. Steel vs alloy. This is a bike forum. I had assumed some basic understanding of materials such as these, but maybe not…

    v8ninety
    Right. For the record, alloy wheels: lighter than steel wheels. Otherwise alloy wheels pretty much pointless. Glad to clear that up.

    With all due respect I think you should try checking your facts before being a patronising donkey 🙄

    Not trying to show off but I’ve got a little bit more than a degree in engineering…

    Most car ‘alloys’ – cast. Designed to look good. Designed to withstand the same abuse a steel wheel will get. They can actually end up quite heavy.

    Steel wheels – pressed out of as thin a sheet as they can get away with. Can be lighter than you think.

    Also there is a few cars where the ‘steelies’ are actually pressed aluminium – these are VERY light and sought after. Some have had problems with cracking around bolt holes.

    Also in this case we are talking about winter tyres. When specifying winter tyres for a car with big alloys running low profile wide tyres it is not uncommon to spec a smaller rim size to enable a higher profile tyre to be used and also a narrower rim and tyre as a narrow tyre can cut through the snow better. The result is a lower rotating mass V the original set up of large and thus heavy alloy wheel and wide, reinforced side wall (as low profile) tyre.

    For proof…

    Peugeot steel wheel, 15×6″ – 7kg

    Peugeot Cyclone alloy wheel – 15×6″ – 8kg

    Peugeot Lazer alloy wheel – 15×6″ – 9.3kg

    And on the flip size a ‘steelie’ that is actually made from aluminium alloy – 15×6″ – 4.7kg

    Hence why those wheels which look like steel wheels (found on a Citroen C5) are very sought after and make a HELL of a difference.

    and now lets get back to the original discussion….

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)

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