Last week, we cut a ride bit short and took the Sustrans for a fair bit of the journey home.

It's rubbish. The signs are tiny, so you need to slow down to read them. You have to stop incredibly often to walk your bike through a pinch point. There are also loads of BFO rocks scattered about the thing to create pinch points. And some of the pinch points look just wide enough to ride through, but they're not.

It gets even better when you consider that the signs only actually give you the number of the route you're on. And they're pretty irregular. Which means you aren't going anywhere without a map or a GPS.

And they don't seem to go to or from anywhere of importance or interest. Suspootle may be a more suitable name, because they're not a sensible route for actual transport.

I'm sure I need more caps to make this into something resembling a rant.

Frustrating at times isn't it?

For what it's worth, I do tend to use them when I'm planning routes. You definitely go a lot quicker in unfamiliar areas if you're following their blazes than if you're constantly stopping to read a map, so if a route goes broadly the way I'm going I'll use it. But some of the diversions are a bit daft, and the blazing is often a bit subtle. 🙂

I like them. Not all of them, but at least they're trying to put in decent routes. Of course there is usually a faster/more direct route, but if the journey is more important than elapsed time, they're great.

I plotted a new 200k audax earlier in the year. It took a fair amount of work to include a sensible circular route and nice lanes, with some views etc in, yet still be fairly direct to keep the nuimber of controls down. It ended up being fairly rectangular.

I then plotted it all onto OS for mapping, and founf 70% of the route was one sustrans NCN route or another. So as a local who knows the local lanes well, they've got most of the routes round here bang on AFAIK.

The Sustrans circular Bristol route is fantastic IMO.

i think sustrans currently has am iniative to add actual signposted places to the numbered signs having realised the error of their ways
and that it doesn't encourage use – local rangers have to ask for the signs to be made up

and as to the routing chosen – blame our car culture and (with the exception of a handful of lottery funded schemes) the extent of funding means routes have to utilise existing infrastructure as cheaply as possible

Have a look at http://www.sustrans.org.uk or http://www.nationalcyclenetwork.co.uk, lots of free info there, also a lot of towns and cities provide free maps of cycle routes.There is also interactive mapping so you can zoom into your area.

The blue signs with red numbers refer to the route number,and there is usually an arrow to point you in the right direction,sadly a lot of the metal signs are getting stolen,for thier scrap metal content.

The reason there are path blockers is to stop the illegal use of motorbikes, some possibly stolen and not insured,and burnt out,which Sustrans has a duty to remove at a high cost,if you see motorbikes on a dedicated cycle route phone the police and report it.

I know what the signs are. They're just not a great deal of use to anyone as they're a) too small and b) don't tell you much.

As for the path blockers – if I can get my bike through, you can get a motorbike through.

So get in touch with your local troop of rangers and help them out, why doncha;

http://www.sustrans.org.uk/sustrans-near-you

Blockers are pointless as a group of young thieves with a stolen bike that they intend to torch when they have had their fun will lift it over anything as they don't have to worry about damaging it.

Because it seems to be fundamentally wrongheaded organisation.

The system doesn't come close to providing an option for sustainable transport as their name suggests. Nobody is going to get to work on the Sustrans system around where I live, unless they happen to work at Sherwood Pines Café.

Even if it did go somewhere you needed to go, you need a mountain bike to ride it, whilst a road bike or hybrid is far better for making a decent pace.

From the point of view of the leisure cyclist, the National Byway seems to make a lot more sense as it goes through places of interest and eases people into the experience of cycling on quiet roads.

I've used bits of the NCN75 route (Glasgow to Edinburgh) as it used to be pretty much door-to-door between home in Balerno and the office in Livingston. After a little while though I found that I didn't use any of it (other than a couple of road sections) as it was much faster to commute on the roads. Not that it's a particularily bad route (it's quite scenic in places), just that it's indirect and so poorly surfaced in places that it doesn't suit a bike with road tyres. On a non-commuting trip to Livingston recently I decided to take a mountain bike and stick mostly to the Sustrans route and quite enjoyed it, even if it was 50% slower than the direct on-road route would have been.

I also rode NCN75 from Uddingston station back home once and that was very good in places, but with some real navigational nightmares due to poor route choice and signposting. So much so that I abandoned the route for a few miles. Unfortunately the best part is now gone as it was on the route of an old railway line that's now getting tracks again. That means that there is a big chunk of NCN75 actually missing, with no replacement yet.

On the other hand NCN75 from home into Edinburgh is a very nice route (old railway path then canal towpath) although it can be quite slow at busy times due to the number of pedestrians sharing the route. Even though it's slower than using the roads I pretty much always use the Sustrans route.

I'm enthusiastic about Sustrans in principle but like Tron I've found the reality a bit of a let down.

The few times I've used them I've either had to get the map out, or ask directions, or just give up and use the road. Plenty of times I've ended up trying to pick a route up again and arrived at a junction with a blue sign on it but no indication of which way it's heading. Of course none of these things are showstoppers- I'm quite capable of reading a map- but they effectively mean the routes exist in name only, at least as far as a transportation network goes. I don't think riding from, say, city to city without a map is feasible, and IMO it would need to be before you could start calling it any sort of alternative transport network.

I appreciate the scale of the project and the problems, but I can't help feeling that at the moment the only traffic on most of these routes will be people that would go that way anyway.

I just wish we could get our Sustrans link between Wells and Cheddar. It would take a horrible bit of road out of the ride but things seem to have stalled on this again.Maybe our new MP will be of more help than the Tory ****t who sat on the fence when asked to support it.

The problem is trying to find a route that avoids major roads or dangerous junctions to cross, so it does wiggle about abit, if anyone wants to make a diffence, become a volunteer ranger,go out and check the signs, cary some free maps with you,to hand out to other cyclists,talk to other cyclists and tell them about new routes, order signs and stick up on poles and lamposts to fill missing gaps on the route,where signs have gone missing.

This is what i do, and all for free.Its fun and you meet like minded people.

I use sustrans routes all the time, I think they're brilliant. Some are a bit hard to follow or in a dodgy state but seriously, it's a massive network and as a result they always need people to help them…..BECAUSE THEY'RE A CHARITY!

Take a map for when you get stuck.

the standard varies across the country but in renfrewshire, inverclyde and ayrshire there are long sections of good traffic free tarmac, great being able to go for an evening training ride after work and not worry about cars or potholes

Take a map for when you get stuck.

I appreciate they're a charity and there are big obstacles, but I don't think 'Take a map' is what's going to get people out of their cars and cycling to work instead. IME the network is not terribly useful as it stands, and pointing out that they're a charity doesn't make it any more attractive to people who aren't regular cyclists.

I know it's easy to point out shortcomings but I don't see it helps anyone to ignore them or wave them away.

Surely the map thing in terms of getting to work is non-argument – you find your way to work once and remember it, unless you are a goldfish?

For exploring a new area, the website maps are great to help you – round my way they have pretty decent signage anyway. CX/hybrid/29er bikes are probably quickest on Sustrans routes, but changing the gears and tyres on a normal MTB would make a huge difference. I'm currently negotiating to get a CX type bike precisely so I can change my 12 mile busy road commute to a 15 mile traffic free Sustrans/towpath route. I know which option I'd sooner take.

There are loads of reasons not to use Sustrans routes, but they provide a valid and viable alternative, and it is a charity that we should be making an effort to encourage and support, rather than just nitpicking

tron
I am a VOLUNTEER sustrans ranger in the adjacent area to you (assuming you are talking about the sherwood pines area)
I have passed your concerns on
if you could tell me what route it was in particular it may help?
Signing rides are normally organised in the spring time so it may be that either this didnt happen this year or there has been a high level of vandalism and signs have been removed
They are designed to be consistant and easy to read when travelling at a speed that is sensible on a shared multi use 'family' path. Place mnames are included on some signs, mainly at the start, end or any junctions between two routes, it would be impractical and expensive (charity remember) to sign every turning with destination names, a degree of familarity may be required but the network is primarily used by local regulars or people that have pre-planned a route – good maps are available from book and cycle shops or online.
There 'should' be clear signage indicating route number and direction as a minimum at every turn – there are quite good guidelines on signage for rangers
The network is meant to compliment existing rights of way – council managed cyclepaths etc not provide a complete door to door commuting service for you! (BTW it pretty much does that for me but i am quite lucky)
Als find the needing a mountain bike comment puzzling as I know alot of the other rangers around this area are elderly that do the job since retiring and alot of them travel by train with folding bikes and I have never heard of one path that was impassable?

Everyone knows that a path which a retired gentleman can negotiate on a Brompton will often only be passable on an All-Mountain Steed by a younger man. 🙂

Surely the map thing in terms of getting to work is non-argument – you find your way to work once and remember it, unless you are a goldfish?

That was a figure of speech- my point was just that brushing off the signing shortcomings with "take a map", or the muddy bits with "get some mudguards" etc. isn't going to make the routes more appealing to people who need more encouragement to get out on their bikes.

Clearly it's an enormous undertaking, and hats off to Sustrans and the volunteers behind it, but as a national cycle network that might attract more than keen cyclists there's a long way to go.

but as a national cycle network that might attract more than keen cyclists there's a long way to go.

Jeez some people are so ungrateful!
What more would you like with little or no government or private funding other than national lottery?
Its a damn site better than anything the country had even 10 years ago
Whilst it was originally called the Natioanl Cycle Network Sustrans is more than a cycle charity and they have to devise routes that are usabale by more than just cyclists
It is probably not an easy job to provide for every possible (non motorised) user so of course there will be compromises

I've not had any problems with my local one (route 7)It seems quite jolly. It's not about the destination it's about the journey 😉

Jeez some people are so ungrateful!
What more would you like with little or no government or private funding other than national lottery?
Its a damn site better than anything the country had even 10 years ago

So it's beyond constructive criticism then? Not everything has to be 'for us or against us'.

Again: Sustrans are to be commended for what they're doing and trying to do, as should the volunteers who help to make it happen.

Is it perfect? No, it's not. In my (admittedly limited) experience it has some pretty serious shortcomings as far as 'solutions to transport challenges' go. If you'd like to pretend they don't exist then that's up to you.

I think they are really good considering the size of the network.

I've used the NCN a lot recently, including helping to re-sign some of it as a volunteer. Some of it's in a bad way, some of it is ace.

Where signage is patchy, it's often because they can't put up signs on public highways without local authority consent, which can take an unfeasibly long time to obtain. It's much easier to stick up just the NCN numbers, as these count as temporary signage, and once you know what to follow they're easy enough to spot.

It also seems like a lot of the detractors are unaware of the other things that Sustrans do, such as promoting cycling via "soft" interventions like school visits. The NCN is probably their biggest achievement but it isn't the only string to their bow.

it isn't the only string to their bow.

The table in their [old] office reception was bludy ace, for starters.

For a charity they have a difficult brief, imo. But build it, and they will come.

The one made of deceased DH forks? It's still there. 🙂

The one made of deceased DH forks? It's still there

Ah, music to my ears… All is temporarily right with the world. 😀

I am a VOLUNTEER sustrans ranger in the adjacent area to you (assuming you are talking about the sherwood pines area)
I have passed your concerns on
if you could tell me what route it was in particular it may help?

NCN 6 I believe. Comes out of the back of Sherwood Pines and heads off towards Blidworth, Ravenshead etc.

There's a bridge over the road at Rainworth – old railway type and it's quite elevated. Someone's stolen all the weldmesh off the fence, so there's nothing to stop the wobblier cyclist falling down the embankment / onto the road.

There's also a section that crosses the main road in Blidworth – signage as you head towards Ravenshead is dodgy. We're talking the signage within 100yds or so of the main road – there's little indication that the white road you end up on is actually part of the NCN.

Signage either needs to be bigger, or more shaped (so it's really obvious which way it's pointing). With the current stuff, you can make out that it's an NCN sign, but not which way it's pointing. My eyesight is fine, and I found them difficult to read without slowing down even at quite a slow pace – 10mph tops.

In my view, the TPT between Renishaw and Rother Valley show how a recreational cycle route should be done – good signage, looks pretty much like standard country road sign sized. Best bit is that the route goes places – there are pubs about, cafes and so on. The result is that it's pretty well used and fly tipping doesn't seem to be a problem.

I personally can't see what the NCN project is about from what I've seen – it doesn't seem like a serious effort to provide an alternative to the roads, and it doesn't seem like a well planned recreational route.

Granted, you could ride it on a folder, a CX bike and probably even a road bike if you were really determined. But the casual cyclist will think "Mountain bike", and go and buy something they aren't likely to use for their day to day business – not neccesarily Sustrans' problem, but not helping the wider idea of getting people on their bikes on a more regular basis.

I appreciate that Sustrans is a charity and that a lot of the work is done by volunteers, and so they can't do everything they might wish to etc. Nevertheless, some of the stuff they've done seems very odd to an outsider looking in.