Thinking of blowing a large chunk of my savings on a VW California camper van. Well it’s not earning any interest in the bank so may as well.

In the options list you can spec heavy duty anti roll bars for another few hundred quid. The one I hired did roll a fair amount on roundabouts, so I guess this would be improved. But what are the downsides? I’m assuming VW have spent millions tuning the suspension so if HD ARBs were better why are they not standard? I’m guessing the cornering grip may be slightly reduced as the inside wheel is more likely to lift. Is that correct?

Bumpier ride, I’d have thought…

yup, OK on smooth roads but makes even slightly rough roads a lot more uncomfortable.
Remember, if it can’t roll, it’s going to slide…

Flatter cornering at the expense of less independent wheel articulation. This is most noticeable at low speed if one wheel goes over a deep pothole and the ARB stops it extending down so the van will have a tendency to tip into it. I had a track prepped M3 many moons ago with massive ARBs and it was truly awful on bumpy roads and in London. Used to feel like a side to side nodding dog!

Far better off to realise you’re driving a van, re-datum yourself, slow down on the roundabouts and take longer to get from A to B. I’ve uprated ARB’s before on cars and on anything other than a smooth track where you get the upsides and no real downsides, they make the ride worse. Lowering your suspension will have a better effect, but at the detriment to ground clearance.

I test drove a Jetta with ‘sport’ suspension. It wasn’t particularly low so didn’t really feel sporty, but the ride was rough as hell, and incredibly uncomfortable. Not much fun at all.

Looks like there is an extra 600kg+ of weight in the california over the standard T6 panel van, so I’m thinking the suspension probably needs some uprating, but maybe the heavy duty anti roll bars are not the answer.

Don’t forgot a panel van is designed to take a 600kg+ payload so is likely to be pretty similar I suspect.

I wouldn’t chose a Tsomething for a track day personally but if you must:

Fit one on the back and you’ll enjoy three-wheeled cornering (flying the inside rear wheel) with better traction under power through curves.

Fit one on the front and it will have less traction through curves and understeer more.

Fit them front and rear and it all gets a little complicated: which end is stiffer, power on/off power, rate of turn in.

Ts are joggly, stiff and horrible without making them stiffer. They’re vans designed to work with a payload.

Looks like there is an extra 600kg+ of weight in the california over the standard T6 panel van, so I’m thinking the suspension probably needs some uprating

VW will have accounted for that in the default suspension, I’m sure.

Go for it, I’ve owned and driven a few van based campers, they make a worthwhile difference.

All the weight in a Cali is on the wrong side for our roundabouts, stiffer ARB’s make it more bearable.

Why would anyone want to go fast around a roundabout whilst on holiday? It’s a leisure vehicle to be driven leisurely.

Are you intending to fit bucket seats too, OP?

It’s nowt to do with going fast.

On a Cali, the leisure & main Battery, fresh & waste water and all the camping kit is on the left. They’re designed for LHD. Once in the UK ‘this becomes noticeable and a bit annoying on a clockwise roundabout. Stiffer ARB’s counter this.

A popular upgrade/mod in Cali T4’s is to wind up the LH front torsion bolt and install HD rated (same as an ambulance) shocks and ARB in the rear.

Consider a multi-rate dampner like a Koni FSD. They perform normally for the first part of wheel travel then stiffen noticeably.

I’d also (if you have the cash) consider uprating the Van to Air suspension.

Not looking to turn it into sports car (or drive it like one), but it is a fairly top heavy beast and VW have obviously decided to offers the HD anti roll bars in the option list for a reasonwhich leads me to believe they think it Is necessary. (It is 28mm front and rear vs. the standard 24mm)

I’m not bothered too much about the roundabouts and don’t mind slowing down for them, I’m more concerned about safety and stability on motorways etc. especially following a merc sprinter van the other day on the M1 at 100mph which changed lanes quickly, rolled heavily and almost lost it.

I guess the question should be will the heavy duty anti roll bars make the handling safer.

especially following a merc sprinter van the other day on the M1 at 100mph which changed lanes quickly, rolled heavily and almost lost it

Erm.

I’m more concerned about safety

There are better ways of being concerned about safety than setting your van up for high speed manoeuvres, imho. Don’t be concerned about whether you can stop your van “losing it” @ 100mph on a motorway, but think about what would happen to you, but mostly to those who unfortunately happen to be right next to you, when it does. Then come and tell me you’re concerned about safety.

BMW fit electric controls on their ARB’s so that they can give good low speed ride and high speed handling. Must be someone doing something similar aftermarket?

You registered on the California forum? Ask there would be my advice, they’re a helpful lot.

There are better ways of being concerned about safety than setting your van up for high speed manoeuvres, imho. Don’t be concerned about whether you can stop your van “losing it” @ 100mph on a motorway, but think about what would happen to you, but mostly to those who unfortunately happen to be right next to you, when it does. Then come and tell me you’re concerned about safety.

Just to clarify I’m not intending to drive it at 100mph or swerve between lanes intentionally, but if I’m on the motorway and I need to swerve to avoid some debris in the road or an out of control sprinter van, I’d like to make sure it is as stable as possible.

As stable as possible on a wet carriage way or dry carriage way? With just you or leaded up with enough for a holiday?

Are you going to change the dampers at the same time? Because if you don’t you are increasing the spring rate in roll without changing the damper rate and that will make it less stable rather than more stable in a very fast lane change type maneuver. Load up a spring quickly and it will discharge its energy quickly if the damper isn’t set up to absorb the extra energy on the return. Think about it – the damper will be dealing with the same force through less travel.

I have some experience of setting up the suspension of competition cars and changing just one thing rarely achieves the result you want without then dealing with the unwanted consequences of the change.

Does a specialist such as Bilstein do a full kit with springs dampers and possibly ARBs? I ran stock ARBs or no ARBs at all on my rally cars but very different spring and damper rates.

It is just uprated stiffer ARBs, the springs and dampers remain the same, so the spring rate wouldn’t change.

This is a factory option when you order, not an aftermarket kit. I would have thought VW would have tested it out. I’m not actually that concerned about rolling on roundabouts but I just want to pick the best option that will give the safest handling overall over a range of conditions fully and unloaded.

The spring rate in roll will change. It will increase.

Edit:

I just want to pick the best option that will give the safest handling overall over a range of conditions fully and unloaded

Given that’s exactly what the manufacturer is aiming at my guess would be absolutely standard.

Are you going to change the dampers at the same time? Because if you don’t you are increasing the spring rate in roll without changing the damper rate and that will make it less stable rather than more stable in a very fast lane change type maneuver.

This isn’t necessarily true, and if it’s a factory fit option, I wouldn’t worry about it introducing any dangerous handling traits… However the damper can only be set up at one rate and the roll will therefore become less and less well damped as you increase the roll bar rate.

You’ll also end up (assuming you’re leaving the springs/dampers the same) with something that corners quite flat but dives under braking/lifts the nose under hard acceleration (Which doesn’t upset tyre contact patches the same way that rolling does, so isn’t a big problem from a grip point of view).

Less safe isn’t necessarily dangerous.

Suspension systems are usually designed so that the contact patch becomes optimal under cornering loads and are designed to produce best grip with some roll. Look at the front geometry of a racing car – it’s an unequal quadrangle not a parallelogram.

Thanks for the comments…

Also just read on another site that although less roll in bends makes you feel you can corner faster the ultimate grip isn’t any better and you get much less warning when you reach the limit before the tyres let go, so maybe the stiffer ARB isn’t any safer.

Given that’s exactly what the manufacturer is aiming at my guess would be absolutely standard.

Just checked the panel vans and they don’t offer the stiffer ARBs as an option. My concern is maybe the engineers decided given the extra 600-700Kg of weight, much of it high up requires uprated ARBs over the panel van, but the accountants decided it would be better to charge an extra £200 to squeeze a bit more out of their customers.

Just checked the panel vans and they don’t offer the stiffer ARBs as an option. My concern is maybe the engineers decided given the extra 600-700Kg of weight, much of it high up requires uprated ARBs over the panel van, but the accountants decided it would be better to charge an extra £200 to squeeze a bit more out of their customers.

I think you want the uprated ARBs – in which case, go get them. They’re not illegal. You seem to want to justify them for some sort of safety requirement, and have invented some entirely unsubstantiated theory that accountants have somehow made your van unsafe to save a bob or two. I loathe answering such speculation, but I do remember this (it was a PR disaster for the A class), which suggests if VW accountants thought it makes business sense to make a less stable van just to make a bit of more money, they are asses.

I think you want the uprated ARBs – in which case, go get them. They’re not illegal. You seem to want to justify them for some sort of safety requirement, and have invented some entirely unsubstantiated theory that accountants have somehow made your van unsafe to save a bob or two. I loathe answering such speculation, but I do remember this (it was a PR disaster for the A class), which suggests if VW accountants thought it makes business sense to make a less stable van just to make a bit of more money, they are asses.

Haha, I don’t need to justify them if I want them, but not even I’m sure what is going on in the subconscious depths of my brain, so you never know!

So, I’ve just got a California Ocean 204 4-Motion. I had the dealer fit VW’s lowered (30mm) springs prior to delivery. I have also fitted 20″ alloys. I find that its actually pretty good now round corners. She’s still a heavy old girl but she doesn’t lean much and handles pretty well, really. Also the ride isn’t unduly hard.

I didn’t consider the ARBs when speccing for some reason. I hear that part of the reason for them is to stop rocking when people are in the upper bed.

H&R ARBs for the T5 are meant to be an extremely good addition. Cost about £300 and you’ll need them fitted on top of that but all the reviews I’ve read have said they’re excellent.